IRA withdraws weapons commitment

magick

The IRA withdraws its offer to put its weapons beyond use and blames the British and Irish governments.

think it could be related to the bank robbery/ wepaons photos

dewsbury

I hate the IRA but reckon the UK & Irish govenrment have behaved badly. i.e. IRA found guilty of robbery without trial.

(Even if they did do it - I suspect it is purely to provide a pension for all 'volunteers' who are unemployable? Might have been better to turn a blind eye ??)

jbkenn

dewsbury wrote:

I hate the IRA but reckon the UK & Irish govenrment have behaved badly. i.e. IRA found guilty of robbery without trial.

(Even if they did do it - I suspect it is purely to provide a pension for all 'volunteers' who are unemployable? Might have been better to turn a blind eye ??)

How do you turn a blind eye, to the biggest robbery in history?, and how could you advocated turning a blind eye to the continueing punishment beatings and shootings.

jbkenn

billy the squid

meh, hardly surprising, the IRA never had any intention of giving **** all weapons up or making them beyond use.

folk_smith

Here's the the press release ... followed by a statement from Sinn Fein

>>>>>> Flash: IRA offer withdrawn

---

The following is the full text of a statement issued tonight by
the Provisional IRA

---

In August 1994, the leadership of Oglaigh na hEireann announced
a complete cessation of all military operations. We did so to
enhance the democratic peace process and underline our
definitive commitment to its success.

That cessation ended in February 1996 because the British
Government acted in bad faith when the then British Prime
Minister John Major and Unionist leaders squandered that
unprecedented opportunity to resolve the conflict.

However, we remained ready to engage positively and in July 1997
we reinstated the cessation on the same basis as before.
Subsequently, we honoured the terms of our cessation with
discipline and honesty, despite numerous attempts to
misrepresent those terms by others.

Since then - over a period of almost eight years - our
leadership took a succession of significant and ambitious
initiatives designed to develop or save the peace process. Those
included:

** Engaging with the Independent International Commission on
Decommissioning;

** Agreeing that independent inspectors could inspect the contents
of a number of IRA dumps, allowing regular re-inspections to
ensure that the weapons remained secure and the reporting of
what they had done both publicly and to the IICD;

** Setting out a clear context for dealing definitively with the
issue of arms;

** Acknowledging past mistakes, hurt and pain the IRA has caused
to others and extending our sincere apologies and condolences
for the deaths and injuries of non-combatants caused by us;

** Agreeing a scheme with the IICD to put arms completely and
verifiably beyond use;

** Implementing this scheme to save the peace process by putting
three separate tranches of weapons beyond use on:

*** - 23 October 2001

*** - 11 April 2002

**** - 21 October 2003; and

** Seeking to directly and publicly address unionist concerns.


In 2004 our leadership was prepared to speedily resolve the
issue of arms, by Christmas if possible, and to invite two
independent witnesses, from the Protestant and Catholic
churches, to testify to this. In the context of a comprehensive
agreement we were also prepared to move into a new mode and to
instruct our Volunteers that there could be no involvement
whatsoever in activities which might endanger that agreement.

These significant and substantive initiatives were our
contributions to the peace process. Others, however, did not
share that agenda. Instead, they demanded the humiliation of the
IRA.

Our initiatives have been attacked, devalued and dismissed by
pro-unionist and anti-republican elements, including the British
Government. The Irish Government have lent themselves to this.
Commitments have been broken or withdrawn. The progress and
change promised on political, social, economic and cultural
matters, as well as on demilitarisation, prisoners, equality and
policing and justice, has not materialised to the extent
required, or promised.

British forces, including the PSNI, remain actively engaged in
both covert and overt operations, including raids on
republicans' homes.

We are also acutely aware of the dangerous instability within
militant unionism, much of it fostered by British military
intelligence agencies. The British/loyalist apparatus for
collusion remains intact.

The political institutions have been suspended for years now and
there is an ongoing political impasse.

At this time it appears that the two governments are intent on
changing the basis of the peace process. They claim that 'the
obstacle now to a lasting and durable settlement... is the
continuing paramilitary and criminal activity of the IRA'.

We reject this. It also belies the fact that a possible
agreement last December was squandered by both governments
pandering to rejectionist unionism instead of upholding their
own commitments and honouring their own obligations.

We do not intend to remain quiescent within this unacceptable
and unstable situation. It has tried our patience to the limit.
Consequently, on reassessment of our position and in response to
the governments and others withdrawing their commitments;

** We are taking all our proposals off the table.

** It is our intention to closely monitor ongoing developments and
to protect to the best of our ability the rights of republicans
and our support base.

The IRA has demonstrated our commitment to the peace process
again and again. We want it to succeed. We have played a key
role in achieving the progress achieved so far. We are prepared,
as part of a genuine and collective effort, to do so again, if
and when the conditions are created for this.

But peace cannot be built on ultimatums, false and malicious
accusations or bad faith. Progress will not be sustained by the
reinstatment of Thatcherite criminalisation strategies, which
our ten comrades died defeating on hunger strike in 1981. We
will not betray the courage of the hunger strikers either by
tolerating criminality within our own ranks or false allegations
of criminality against our organisation by petty politicians
motivated by selfish interests, instead of the national need for
a successful conclusion to the peace process.

Finally, we thank all those who have supported us through
decades of struggle. We freely acknowledge our responsibility to
enhance genuine efforts to build peace and justice. We reiterate
our commitment to achieving Irish independence and our other
republican objectives. We are determined that these objectives
will be secured.

P O'Neill
Irish Republican Publicity Bureau
Dublin

---

In an initial response to Wednesday night's IRA statement, Sinn
Fein President Gerry Adams said:

"The IRA statement is obviously a direct consequence of the
retrograde stance of the two governments. It is evidence of a
deepening crisis and I regret that very much.

"The two governments have opted for confrontation. They are
engaging in the sterile politics of the blame game without any
regard for the consequences. This negative approach has
effectively scuttled the enormous work done in persuading the
IRA to undertake the unprecedented initiatives which they
publicly outlined in December.

"All of this good work has now been undermined."

folk_smith

I think the IRA has given ample cooperation to the effort - the English and Irish gov'ts have not fulfilled their end of the bargain ...


[IMG]file:///Users/tjs/Desktop/harp.gif[/IMG]

jbkenn

folk_smith wrote:

I think the IRA has given ample cooperation to the effort - the English and Irish gov'ts have not fulfilled their end of the bargain ...


[IMG]file:///Users/tjs/Desktop/harp.gif[/IMG]

I dont, both governments have turned somersaults to try and accomodate both side of the divide, up to and including a willingness to turn a blind eye to criminal activity

jbkenn

dewsbury

Think about this!


I repeat that I hate the IRA.

There are many "volunteers" with no active cause and no income. They may also not be very employable. These people are tough rough individuals who may have expectations of financial reward for their 'sacrifices'. It might be unpalatable but maybe the stolen millions might keep these individual peaceful.

I don't know - It is just a theory ??
Peace is the prize - if a few 'volunteers' get a few million and live peacefully then I can live with it. It is preferable to many alternatives.

A Dub in Glasgo

A lot of the loot is worthless

folk_smith

empty promises and superficial acts of "kindness" hardly count as cooperation - its all **** ...

jbkenn

dewsbury wrote:

Think about this!


I repeat that I hate the IRA.

There are many "volunteers" with no active cause and no income. They may also not be very employable. These people are tough rough individuals who may have expectations of financial reward for their 'sacrifices'. It might be unpalatable but maybe the stolen millions might keep these individual peaceful.

I don't know - It is just a theory ??
Peace is the prize - if a few 'volunteers' get a few million and live peacefully then I can live with it. It is preferable to many alternatives.

And what happens when the money runs out? do we allow them to carry out another robbery?

jbkenn

cdebru

its nothing new the IRA have withdrawn all previous offers when the talks have collapsed
if the talks start again after the next uk election or after the next irish election
then it will all be back on the table this is standard procedure at this stage

jbkenn

folk_smith wrote:

empty promises and superficial acts of "kindness" hardly count as cooperation - its all **** ...

I'd hazard a guess? you are right up to speed there, in Laffayette Louisianna
We have to live with the consequences of the actions of these ba$tard$, you do not

jbkenn

cdebru

jbkenn wrote:

I'd hazard a guess? you are right up to speed there, in Laffayette Louisianna
We have to live with the consequences of the actions of these ba$tard$, you do not

jbkenn

so he is not entitled to an opinion
perhaps someone could say what do you know you live in limerick

billy the squid

cdebru wrote:

its nothing new the IRA have withdrawn all previous offers when the talks have collapsed
if the talks start again after the next uk election or after the next irish election
then it will all be back on the table this is standard procedure at this stage

and then we take another spin on this merrygoround that the IRA is taking us on, until the elections after the next elections.

I think the IRA has given ample cooperation to the effort - the English and Irish gov'ts have not fulfilled their end of the bargain ...

I dont. they could have stopped punnishment beatings and bank robberies as well.

Here's the the press release ... followed by a statement from Sinn Fein

>>>>>> Flash: IRA offer withdrawn

I read it the first time you posted it. no need to spam the board.

folk_smith

my family had to leave Carnlough and Belfast because of their involvement with the Easter Rising - but we have stayed involved with the efforts of our brothers and sisters through AOH and other organizations over three generations - believe me, I'd rather be on that side of the Atlantic.

ReefBreak

Typical Shinner/IRA-speak: When thing go wrong, blame everyone else; always be the victim; always claim oppression.

folk_smith

piss off - my grandfather lost four brothers, an uncle, and a number of cousins from that oppression -what would you know about it

cdebru

billy the squid wrote:

and then we take another spin on this merrygoround that the IRA is taking us on, until the elections after the next elections.



.

this is standard they wont leave that offer on the table when the talks have broken down the same way the Irish government have withdrawn the offer of early release for the mccabe killers
the british will withdraw offers

ReefBreak

folk_smith wrote:

my family had to leave Carnlough and Belfast because of their involvement with the Easter Rising - but we have stayed involved with the efforts of our brothers and sisters through AOH and other organizations over three generations - believe me, I'd rather be on that side of the Atlantic.

The AOH you say. As in the Ancient Order of Hibernia? Aren't they the sectarian (catholics only), terrorist-supporting (pro-IRA), street-marching tribe so beloved of hideously ill-informed Irish-America? Shouldn't the AOH be really called the Green Order? You could do exchange programs with the Orange Order in Northern Ireland.

Perhaps when the IRA are done with threatening to murder people when they don't get their way, you could start supporting their fellow-travellers in Al-Qaeda? There's not much difference between the two (both are terrorist organisations that murder people to bring about change), apart from scale.

A Dub in Glasgo

Everyone withdraws back to base for a simmer down. All offers are off the table. Hopefully it will not fall apart although this is probably the worst one yet.

billy the squid

folk_smith wrote:

my family had to leave Carnlough and Belfast because of their involvement with the Easter Rising - but we have stayed involved with the efforts of our brothers and sisters through AOH and other organizations over three generations - believe me, I'd rather be on that side of the Atlantic.

I hate to burst your bubble here but the republican movement your family left in 1916 is a lot different to the one that is present in the north of ireland now.

anyone who believes that the murder of a mother of ten children is not a crime have no honour and should not call themselves human, let alone republican.

Johnny_the_fox

ReefBreak wrote:

The AOH you say. As in the Ancient Order of Hibernia? Aren't they the sectarian (catholics only), terrorist-supporting (pro-IRA), street-marching tribe so beloved of hideously ill-informed Irish-America? Shouldn't the AOH be really called the Green Order? You could do exchange programs with the Orange Order in Northern Ireland.

wrong.

Ancient Order of Hibernia -> are a collect of catholics that if a bishop told them to fart they would.. not republican organisation i.e pro-ira.

they are left-wing catholics as such.

folk_smith

and just how, in your opinion, are we ill-informed Irish-Americans? and what are your political affiliations? I imagine you to be one of those types that, like some Southerners here who believe that "slavery wasn't a bad thing," believe that Catholics have no right to be subversive and dissatisfied with the way in which our country was handled in 1921 when it was decided to keep the North under the thumb of the crown.

billy the squid

Perhaps when the IRA are done with threatening to murder people when they don't get their way, you could start supporting their fellow-travellers in Al-Qaeda? There's not much difference between the two (both are terrorist organisations that murder people to bring about change), apart from scale.

you forgot to mention that at one time or another members of both terrorist groups were supported by the nice citezenry of the good ol' U S of A

billy the squid

folk_smith wrote:

and just how, in your opinion, are we ill-informed Irish-Americans? and what are your political affiliations? I imagine you to be one of those types that, like some Southerners here who believe that "slavery wasn't a bad thing," believe that Catholics have no right to be subversive and dissatisfied with the way in which our country was handled in 1921 when it was decided to keep the North under the thumb of the crown.

The alternative would have been a whole lot worse for the people of the entire island. The treaty kept those people who wanted to remain within the united kingdom, within the united kingdom, while it gave the people of the south to cede membership of the brittish commonwealth in 1949.

the alternative was an invasion by the brittish army where many people would have died unnecessarily.

war of independence. the war of independence is over.

folk_smith

billy the squid wrote:

I hate to burst your bubble here but the republican movement your family left in 1916 is a lot different to the one that is present in the north of ireland now.

anyone who believes that the murder of a mother of ten children is not a crime have no honour and should not call themselves human, let alone republican.

I certainly don't condone that kind of violence - and I am not so naive to beleive that there are not those touting themselves as Republicans who are in the fight for something more sinister than larger vision proposed by IRA leaders.

And yes, AOH is strictly Catholic, but all Catholic does not mean that we are monsters - that's the very kind of thinking that many of us are trying to change.

billy the squid

folk_smith wrote:

I certainly don't condone that kind of violence - and I am not so naive to beleive that there are not those touting themselves as Republicans who are in the fight for something more sinister than larger vision proposed by IRA leaders.

The same people who wrote the statement you posted on this website are the ones who murdered jean mcconville, mother of ten, buried her body, and then waited thirty years to tell her family where they buried her. this is the republican army you claim to support. its not just a few rogue members of n honorable organisation that are responsible for this crime, it is the whole organisation called the IRA.

And yes, AOH is strictly Catholic, but all Catholic does not mean that we are monsters - that's the very kind of thinking that many of us are trying to change.

by your logic, the fact that the KKK is all white doesnt mean that they are racist.

cdebru

billy the squid wrote:

I hate to burst your bubble here but the republican movement your family left in 1916 is a lot different to the one that is present in the north of ireland now.

anyone who believes that the murder of a mother of ten children is not a crime have no honour and should not call themselves human, let alone republican.

I hate to burst your bubble but i suggest yo take a more in depth look at the activities of what some people call the "old IRA" might shock you

folk_smith

billy the squid wrote:

The alternative would have been a whole lot worse for the people of the entire island. The treaty kept those people who wanted to remain within the united kingdom, within the united kingdom, while it gave the people of the south to cede membership of the brittish commonwealth in 1949.

the alternative was an invasion by the brittish army where many people would have died unnecessarily.

war of independence. the war of independence is over.

Yes, that pacified the Protestant majority, but left the Catholic minority to the wolves - just because it worked for one group, doesn't mean it worked for everyone. You also have to remember that a good deal of that protestant majority were immigrants - Scots brought to Ulster during the English Restoration to work on plantations ...

billy the squid

folk_smith wrote:

Yes, that pacified the Protestant majority, but left the Catholic minority to the wolves - just because it worked for one group, doesn't mean it worked for everyone. You also have to remember that a good deal of that protestant majority were immigrants - Scots brought to Ulster during the English Restoration to work on plantations ...

actually their ancestors were immigrants. the protestants of the north during the 1920s were mostly born there.

jbkenn

folk_smith wrote:

my family had to leave Carnlough and Belfast because of their involvement with the Easter Rising - but we have stayed involved with the efforts of our brothers and sisters through AOH and other organizations over three generations - believe me, I'd rather be on that side of the Atlantic.

My family did'nt have to leave Ireland because of their involvement in the Easter rising, because my Grandfather and Granduncle were otherwise engaged, in the front lines in France, they learned about the Rising and the bombardment of Dublin from banners held up in the German lines. My Granduncle was killed in the Somme, and my Grandfather was wounded, and on his return to Ireland he joined my other Granduncle in the IRA, after the War of Independence he took no part in the Civil war as he had tired of the killing. His brother took the irregular side in the Civil war and had to be smuggled out to Istanbul and then to America, he never returned to the land he had fought so bravely to free, and died in America.
To the day he died, my Grandfather did two things every year, for which he would not apologise to anyone, at Easter he wore an Easter lily (the sale of which was illegal) in memory of his fallen comrades in the fight for freedom, and, on November the 11th he wore a poppy, for his fallen comrades in the Royal Munster Fusiliers.
As a member of the Old IRA he was entitled to a funeral with full military honours, his dying wish was to decline it as he did not want his grandchildren exposed to the "glory of gunfire" and, he had done what he had done because it was necessary at the time.
I was fortunate to have his wise counsel when "the Troubles" erupted in 1969 otherwise, I might have gone down the futile path of violence

jbkenn

folk_smith

billy the squid wrote:

The same people who wrote the statement you posted on this website are the ones who murdered jean mcconville, mother of ten, buried her body, and then waited thirty years to tell her family where they buried her. this is the republican army you claim to support. its not just a few rogue members of n honorable organisation that are responsible for this crime, it is the whole organisation called the IRA.

Well, I guess nothing that was ever done by the other parties involved - English soldiers never gunned down children - never raped women - never fired into peaceful protests -

doesn't make what members of the IRA have done in the past right, but to tell you the truth, if it was me - and it was my brothers being shot up - my wife - I don't know that I could predict my actions - don't know that I'd give a f0ck either -

Capt'n Midnight

dewsbury wrote:

I don't know - It is just a theory ??
Peace is the prize - if a few 'volunteers' get a few million and live peacefully then I can live with it. It is preferable to many alternatives.

Aren't the UDA getting "training" that works out at about £70,000 each ?

folk_smith

billy the squid wrote:

actually their ancestors were immigrants. the protestants of the north during the 1920s were mostly born there.

Yes, you're right of course, but the point I was making is that a lot of this conflict has to do with history - and I don't want to pull the "we were here first card," but the fact of it is, we were -

Here's something to consider -

If Henry VIII hadn't wanted a divorce - hadn't wanted to reclaim English lands owned by the RCC - would we be having this conversation -

folk_smith

jbkenn wrote:

To the day he died, my Grandfather did two things every year, for which he would not apologise to anyone, at Easter he wore an Easter lily (the sale of which was illegal) in memory of his fallen comrades in the fight for freedom, and, on November the 11th he wore a poppy, for his fallen comrades in the Royal Munster Fusiliers.jbkenn

God bless him - in all sincerity, and I appreciate your comment, I raise a glass to him.

billy the squid

Well, I guess nothing that was ever done by the other parties involved - English soldiers never gunned down children - never raped women - never fired into peaceful protests -

The actions of the brittish army does not make what a bunch of criminals honerable. where is the honour of murdering a member of the police force of a country you wish to join. where is the honor in murdering a woman for offering an injured person first aid simply because the person needing medical help was brittish. sure members of the british army went way over the line. but it does not make what members of the IRA (Which this thread is about) right.

The forum for peace and reconsilliation was set up in the mid 1990s after the first IRA ceasefire. The IRA responded with gestures such as this in 1996 by bombing canary wharf. the man who died in that bombing wasnt even english..

billy the squid

folk_smith wrote:

Yes, you're right of course, but the point I was making is that a lot of this conflict has to do with history - and I don't want to pull the "we were here first card," but the fact of it is, we were -

Here's something to consider -

If Henry VIII hadn't wanted a divorce - hadn't wanted to reclaim English lands owned by the RCC - would we be having this conversation -

yes we would because the island of ireland was part of the british monarchy's domain long before henry VIII

folk_smith

billy the squid wrote:

The actions of the brittish army does not make what a bunch of criminals honerable. where is the honour of murdering a member of the police force of a country you wish to join. where is the honor in murdering a woman for offering an injured person first aid simply because the person needing medical help was brittish. sure members of the british army went way over the line. but it does not make what members of the IRA (Which this thread is about) right..

I think I just said that ...

billy the squid

no actually you didnt. you made a sarcastic post claiming that I deny that the british army acted inproperly in northern ireland. they did act improperly and no where in this thread did I deny it.

It does not make the IRA angels though. they were preparing for the canary wharf bombing before they declared an end to their ceasefire.

cdebru

billy the squid wrote:

yes we would because the island of ireland was part of the british monarchy's domain long before henry VIII

and here we go again off topic as usual

billy the squid

he started it with his comment about king henry the eight

folk_smith

Billy the Squid ..

Are you on AIM? If so, I wanted to chat through there - a little quicker than this ...

billy the squid

i sent you a pm reply my AIM is fooked but msn and yahoo are good to go

also http://www.boards.ie/chat is good too

folk_smith

how does the boards chat work - what do I do?

billy the squid

just type the URL i put there into internet explorer

mods might want to move these posts to feedback or recycle bin oce we have this done thanks.

folk_smith

I'm there - is there a particular channel? Or do I just look for your name?

cdebru

billy the squid wrote:

just type the URL i put there into internet explorer

mods might want to move these posts to feedback or recycle bin oce we have this done thanks.

is that a suggestion for all your posts billy

billy the squid

shadup

50_pennies

I think the Brits want to turn this into the US war on terrorism type of deal. Just so they can indiscriminately hunt down the IRA and wipe them out.
IT just seems like they are intentionally making problems for the peace process.

MEh! thats just my 50 pennies.

Villain

Mod's can we have one Thread on the IRA statement and one on the Bank robbery, too many threads with the same topic here.