24 Season 4

Lawnkiller

Well seeing as it started tonight, I guess I can post about it. Good start to the new series? Well maybe a little slow but a good cliff hanger at the end. And we seem to be getting some nice character development

(Jack doing a desk job, Chloe 'almost' stopping the useless act)

and a few new characters.

Should be interesting...

Tusky

put [spoiler.] MSG HERE [/spoiler.] without the Full stops so that do dont ruin anything for people.

its easy.

see?

kinkstr

I have to say i enjoyed the first 2 episodes, when i heard that so many characters had left i was slightly hesitant as to whether i would still enjoy it,but ive no complaints so far,all that things being equal, it isnt fair to judge 24 on 1 or 2 episodes as it can drastically change from one minute to the next but thats ehat has alot of people(myself included) hooked on this great show.
ps
Im delighted the phones in CTU still have that ringtone

aidan_dunne

Thought it was a very good start to the new series, alright. Much better than last years.

But, there is one thing that did bug me. I noticed it a little last series but I noticed it a lot more tonight. I think they're really starting to mess with the "time format" too much. It doesn't seem to have the same "real-time" feel to it as it did in series 1 and 2. The reason I say this is:

1: look how quickly

it turned to daylight just after the train crash/attack.

Just a couple of minutes beforehand it was completely dark, then within the space of a few minutes it was bright daylight.

2: between the end of the first episode and the start of the second one, notice how quickly

the police got to the scene of Heller's kidnapping/attack.

Way, way too fast. If you happen to watch the repeat tonight, you'll see what I'm talking about.

3: see how quickly they got from

Heller's son's house to their compound.

Again, it just seems too quick.

I noticed little jumps in the time format like this during the last series but not usually during a really critical scenario or event and not so much that you would really notice it or that you would notice it until you thought about it afterwards. But, straight away tonight I picked up on these things and thought to myself, "Nah, that happened too fast. They're playing with the time format too much, it doesn't have the same "real-time" feel to it and I don't like it."

Apart from that, I thought it was a good start to the season. But, this whole thing of

someone Jack cares about or loves getting into trouble or danger or being killed

is starting to get a little annoying. Can the scriptwriters not come up with something a little more original than that at this stage after 3 series? I mean, first it was

Terri

, then

Kim

, then that

Mexican woman

in the last series who he fell for while working undercover with the Salazars and now

his new girlfriend, Heller's daughter.

Is this poor guy ever going to find a bit of happiness in his life? Though, I suppose if he did, it wouldn't be the same Jack anymore, would it?

thegills

The technology used in Series 1 and 2 seems to have disappeared too. Back then CTU could access Satellite images realtime to track vehicles etc. they could even transfer them to Jacks PDA as he was chasing said vehicle. There was no mention of this when looking for Heller's kidnappers.

Also when that internet geek was waiting in Union Station, Jack called him on the mobile. In previous 24's they could track these calls using triangulations etc. yet it didn't dawn on anybody that the guy chasing the geek could trace the call. This directly resulted in the death of 2 agents.

chump

I was very disappointed. Don't think I'll watch this series. It was ridiculously predictable, albeit I don't have a clue what's going to happen, but the way in which things happen, like the boss chick always getting things wrong, Chloe moaning, Jack trying to save the day but noone lets him do whats best. I could go on.

Also the holes that thegills & aidan_dunne pointed out were very noticeable, I must say moreso the technology absence for myself. They pick and choose when to use it to fit in with the script.

And the script was uhhhh.

And no hot blondes?

Agent Orange

The show left a nasty aftertaste, and I say this as a long time '24' fan.

I didn't like the stereotyping of Muslims as terrorists. They got away with it (just) in season 2, but now they've brought it to the fore again.

The ending of the second episode was in exceedingly poor taste, a nasty attempt to tap into the revulsion we feel on seeing the hostages in Iraq.

From a dramatic point of view, what's the big story this season? Jack trying to save Secretary Heller? If this is the best they can do, then '24' is in serious trouble. The 'threat to a politician's life' had already been covered in season 1, and it doesn't carry the same sense of urgency that an impending nuclear attack or a virus outbreak has.

But I trust the writers of '24'... for now. I hope that this season will address the sterotyping and racism of Muslims in the US - if it doesn't, I won't be able to enjoy '24' any more.

aidan_dunne

Yeah, I have to admit that I was also very disappointed with the lack of technology usage in last night's double episode. Have to agree, when

that hacker guy was called by Jack at the station when he was being taken away by the terrorists

, I was very surprised Jack didn't call CTU and have them track in on his mobile phone signal like they would have done in the past. I was waiting for them to do it but it never happened.

Also, just very quickly returning to my previous post about the apparant change to the real-time format of the show, last night I also noticed at the start that Jack's voiceover didn't include the bit where he says "Events occur in real-time". In the previous series they always said that bit at the start of the first episode of each series but not last night. This makes me wonder if they are indeed changing the format slightly. Perhaps they've decided to not stick so rigidly to the real-time format anymore because, when they did, sometimes the action would slow down or there would be times where not much would be happening. Now, though, they can cram more action in all the time and keep the pace going hard and fast. Which might sound like a good thing but I think isn't because they are altering the inherrent "hook" of the show which drew viewers in to begin with, the fact that everything did happen in real-time. What I used to like was how sometimes there wouldn't be much action and things would seem fairly quiet and settled for a while, as time just passed by, then..... BANG!..... out of nowhere, another major plot twist or surprise or sudden increase in action out of nowhere. I think if they do it the way it seems they are doing it now, though, with things happening pretty much all the time, it's going to get exhausting to watch, in addition to exhausting all the action scenes, and they'll just end up coming up with other storylines in order to try and keep this pace up and the action going, but which don't actually advance the main plot at all. If you can understand all that!

Agent Orange

I'm pretty sure the 'events occur in real time' was dropped after the first few episodes of season 1? Anyway, it's implied that things are happening in real-time when the show is an hour long and covers an hour in the day.

As for

the ambulance and police turning up at the abduction scene so quickly

, that was because Sky went straight into the second episode. Normally there is a recap before the episode which takes about 2 minutes - there wasn't one last night.

aidan_dunne

Agent Orange wrote:

I'm pretty sure the 'events occur in real time' was dropped after the first few episodes of season 1?

No, at the start of the very first episode of the past three series, it was included. It wasn't included at the start of the first episode last night which is why I'm wondering if they're starting to tweak the real-time format a little bit to suit themselves.

Agent Orange wrote:

As for

the ambulance and police turning up at the abduction scene so quickly

, that was because Sky went straight into the second episode. Normally there is a recap before the episode which takes about 2 minutes - there wasn't one last night.

But if you look at the timing, then, they should have taken a couple of minutes longer to get there to allow for the fact that there was no recap. And I don't think it was because Sky went straight into the second episode, I think that was actually the way it was made and aired originally in the States because it was shown back to back over there as well. It wasn't that Sky cut out the recap or anything, that was the way it was meant to be shown. So, with that being the case, my original point about them getting there so quickly still stands and the makers should have allowed for that fact by letting it take a little longer for them to arrive then they did.

Anyway, I'm not going to get into a major argument over this or anything, I'm just disappointed that the programme's makers seem to be disregarding, to a certain extent now, the real-time concept which made this show such an innovation in television to begin with. Like I said, it started during the last series, now it's becoming more and more apparant. I just hope it doesn't continue this way until the show no longer has the unique "24-feel" to it anymore.

Doodah7

Yes really enjoyed it the other night, even if Sky's adverts were very intrusive during the first hour. God help me if I have to look at the plonker in the Nissan at the start and end of every ad break for the next six months!!! That's why I preferred it on RTE 2.

I noticed it too that it was suddenly bright in Jack's hotel room and I agree that it was very obvious in Series 3 when characters would get from point A to point B VERY quickly. Seems to the same in series 4.

Still at least one annoying character who was holding Jack back has been disposed of already. Here's hoping O'Driscoll suffers a similar fate...

Zoton

tallpaul wrote:

Yes really enjoyed it the other night, even if Sky's adverts were very intrusive during the first hour. God help me if I have to look at the plonker in the Nissan at the start and end of every ad break for the next six months!!!

I wanted to slap thay guy after the first few times. After 15 or so, i had moved up to wanting to ritually dissembowel him. Very irritating indeed.

Elmo

I don't know.

All the characters where sterotypical, I mean I know they where all stearotypical in the last series but they're even more so here.

The Secretary Of Defence "your 6th grade Micheal Moore .... "
His son the Hippy
His obediant daughter
Jack
The Muslim Family (I can see why they caused offence)
The all american Teenage Girl (Kim's replacement???)
The computer Geek

the body count was huge, all of the compter staff, the secret service, the computer geeks mother etc was it one every 10 mins?

Bring back the other cast IMO.

However chleo did grow up since last season, becoming the bitch etc.

Nietzschean

actually its not too bad, massive body count in this season (i'm on episode 7)

segadreamcast

Season 1 had a decent bodycount too though IIRC. TBH; the 'old' cast were fairly annoying - not a patch on the first proper cast of Season 1... Glad they decided to switch it; though there is this "uncool" feel to just about everybody but Jack in CTU now - which is rather annoying (the mumbley guy, that girl from Veronica's Closet...the bossy bitch... the various non-descript characters).

I have to agree about the time-format - but, all in all, I think it was a marked improvement on last season's opener. I imagine the plot will open out more - considering the internet attack that has been plotted, I'm not sure how it will work but...

my guess is that they're going to try and take down the internet - thus, disarming the security and allowing some sort of a large scale attack to happen. Obviously it can't be nuclear or biological because they've been done...

aidan_dunne

I agree with your spoiler, NoelRock, I think that you could be onto something there. Okay, so they can't do nuclear or biological again but, if it's an attack on the internet they're planning, how about the idea that they might be planning on attacking

utilites such as power stations, transport links, airports/air traffic control systems, etc. Basically using the internet or whatever to cause complete chaos and a general shutdown which may lead to things such as plane crashes, power cuts, etc., which could then lead to general unrest within the population, which then leads to rioting, looting, etc., which could then act as a cover-up or distraction to a larger attack of some sort? See how it could all have a knock-on effect here? Also, could the fact that the President is in the air at the moment in Air Force One have a part to play in all this? Like, perhaps if the terrorists use an internet attack to cause air traffic control chaos, Air Force One might crash, for example, or they could attempt a shootdown of it with a surface-to-air missile or something like that? The chain-of-command would be seriously screwed up then and, with communications and power and things like that possibly disprupted, there may be no way for the government to re-establish the chain immediately, leading to an opportunity for the terrorists to take advantage of this confusion in some way.

Yes, that's a big potential spoiler, I know! Funnily enough, it runs along the lines of an idea I've had for a few years now for a book. I'll probably never get around to writing it, though. Ah, it's probably a crap idea anyway!

I've got to stop reading Tom Clancy, I think!

Zoton

I must say, last night's episode was pretty weak. The interchanges between Jack and Chloe on the phone were the same thing regurgitated over and over again. And the mother in the Turkish family is woeful!
And again last night the 'real time' element was iffy.
Dammit, i really hope it improves.

gazzer

Didnt think last nights ep was up to much.. Once again we have Jack going against every bodys orders. Chloe should have just hung up on him.

It looks like the black female who started in CTU last night is going to be another Sherry Palmer and the young girl (Debbie?) is going to be another Kim.

Doodah7

Yes I thought last night's ep was very meh...

Your wan O'Driscoll's acting is absolutely dire also..

Repli

It gets better

Jack holding up the garage - one of the funniest scenes ive ever seen and also the first 10 minutes of episode 6 =D

Getting a er video recording of episode 8 in a few hours... =D

Zoton

No improvement last night. This series is going nowhere. I never thought i'd find myself considering not bothering to watch 24 any more. It is a sad day.

Doodah7

Zoton wrote:

No improvement last night. This series is going nowhere. I never thought i'd find myself considering not bothering to watch 24 any more. It is a sad day.

I agree 100% We are now well into the series AND NOTHING IS HAPPENING!!!! I assume it will have to pick up as the Heller deadline approaches.

Zoton

Last night's (or sunday's) episode was an improvement. There were some interesting events, but they are completely screwing with the real time now.:mad: For example

When the guy drove into the truck and his car exploded, the fire brigade were there and had the fire out within a few minutes, despite them being miles into the desert.

And the mother of the Araz family is a brutal actress!

HomesickAlien

if you consider how good the first series was, this series really isn't up to scratch. also it seems to have a fairly right wing lean on it now.

eg the son of the sec of defence being an obvious hippie who protests the governments foreign policy and then smokes weed in front of his dad. plus that michael moore referance was a bit blatent. maybe rupert murdoch is taking more of a 'hands-on' role in the making of his shows...

pickarooney

It's absolutely dire now, but the worst thing is that I'll still watch it all the way through
It jumped the shark at about episode 13 in series one, IMO. After that it was in the "silly but watchable" category, now it's just the same thing happening over and over and over.

Zoton

Another big improvement last night. Huge body count, solid action. A good episode. I was just waiting for some guy on a cell phone to say "stage one of the plan is complete sir", and well, that nearly happened
The kid (Barus, i don't know how to spell his name), got pretty medievil on that guy's ass last night. He's still a terrible actor though, as is the woman playing his mother.
But wahey for 24 starting to kick ass again. Long may it continue.

segadreamcast

Every twist has been blatantly obvious so far... I don't know how much more of this I can take - they're killing what was a great concept ever so slowly...

FX Meister

Series three was pathetic and this one is just as bad

The Bollox

whens it coming to terrestrial tv? or is it there already and I missed it

segadreamcast

Yeah, you're right Marts - totally forgot about Network2. Very slow on the pickup this year? I wouldn't be too surprised if they weren't picking it up at all now tbh...

The Bollox

its a load of b0ll0x, I loved 24, I missed the start of the first season, so I didn't get the rest of what I watched, but the second season was fantastic and the third was ok

bbability

Did anyone notice that guy in last nights episode that looked like Mr Bean?

I thought last nights episode was ok. They seemed to be full of action every second episode this series.

is_that_so

Regrettably I have already given up on it. I agree that 3 was bad and I found this one so routinely predictable that I could have written it myself. For me those little snippets Sky shows sums up the action for the week. Such a pity but then again when does Hollywood ever figure out it's gone too far and done an idea to death.

tvnutz

this season has been great,whats up with you guys!?you always need to wait for the big picture to see if the season was good,and thats at the end of the season.last year i thought the salazar drug thing was terrible,but then the 2nd half story with the virus was very good.

Simi

Yeah I really hope the 2nd half of this season is better. I thought the 2nd half of season 3 was good but I felt they rushed the end a wee bit. This season is terrible though its so predictable and completely right wing. And the bit with the fire engines really annoyed me too.

podge3

I watch the series myself, but a few things about it iritate me i.e.

-the backdrop when people are driving in cars - looks like a 1950s TV series. Can the budget not stretch to mounting the vehicle on a trailer or however they do it nowadays

- how come none of the terrorists can shoot straight - even old man Heller is a crack shot. But a terrorist with an AK 47 couldn't hit a cows a**e with a banjo

-in last weeks episode, Jack hid behind a couple of timber packing crates while the baddies sprayed the crates with an AK47. Some one should tell the producers (and maybe JAck!) that the bullets from an AK can penetrate a 4 inch concrete block.

These and other mistakes spoil an otherwise watchable TV series by making it look amateurish.

doh.ie

tvnutz wrote:

this season has been great,whats up with you guys!?you always need to wait for the big picture to see if the season was good,and thats at the end of the season.last year i thought the salazar drug thing was terrible,but then the 2nd half story with the virus was very good.

But those of us who see it elsewhere are up to ep 11... and it's NOT improving! It's WORSE than last year with the Salazar/Mexico drugs plot which became Nina/virus plot which became Hotel Diseased/Saunders.

They clearly work in blocks of stories and the worse thing is that the viewers are copping on to it. Season one was kidnap/er, kidnap/Gaines/Drazen, season two was terrorist infiltration/nuclear attack/Cyprus audio, season three was Kyle Singer and the drugs/Salazar infiltration & Mexico/Saunders & hotel. This year it's so far Kidnap/(just in case this hasn't fully played out)

nuclear attack

and then there'll be a third element.

Put simply, it's hard to get worked up about something when you know it's just the intro to something else... and it's becoming increasingly obvious how the 24 format works. (Of course, this is the year it's become particularly successful in the US ratings-wise, so we can give up any hope of them fixing its problems for next year.)

Also, the addition of new CTU crew - Driscoll, Curtis, Sarah, Edgar - is really a bit of a strange decision. We barely know these people, so it's difficult to care about them the way we would have with characters we knew well over several years. In fact, the new bunch have so little defining them to offer, it would have been stronger to actually keep Michelle, Chloe (for longer), Adam etc.

And lastly, season 4 is mostly guilty of just being same old, same old. 24 needs to become something fresher - get out of LA, widen the scope, mess with the format, don't have the key focus being Jack all the time etc. etc. There are ways to fix 24, and it was a fine show for the first 2 seasons, but the more they repeat what went before, the more viewers will tune out...

ixoy

Excellently put doh.ie - for me it's a case of familiarity beginning to breed contempt. Too many of the same scenarios on a broad level and even also on an episodic level:

* Jack/Tony running down an empty coridoor, gun in the air, about to assault terrorists/kidnappers/etc (which he kills single-handedly)
* Someone close to their place of work/family HasAnAgenda that is revealed and is VeryImportant for the main plot
* Jack must work outside the law to protect his country! To the sound of dramamtic music and beeping clocks
* Jack talks intensely into his mobile
* Obligatory bi-weekly torture scene (they're seriously annoying me at this point)

Danger_Dave

Jeez guyz, i think its great jack is kickn ass and thats wht matters , as for the fire truck easily explainable, the yellow pick up truck was being followed by jack so course there goin to have police cars, ambulance, fire trucks close to it, just incase.

I gotta say i like this season so far, you got charcters you hate, like and feel indifferent to. Im not saying its an improvment on last few because ive only seen so few this season.

And you gotta admit was great to see jack go into there base alone and safe the defense Sec?

tvnutz

Exactly,Im not looking for every single detail and storyline to be 100% perfect.After 4 seasons you cant expect a show like this to be constantly original,Im looking for some action and some fun and so far I am getting it.

I also think the cast change was brilliant,we may have know the others characters more than these new ones,but I was getting sick of them,especially Kim and Palmer.

Moe79

I'm kind of surprised to read all these negative comments about Season 4.

I've really been enjoying it. I think a lot of the changes have been for the best. I mean, yeah the first 2 or 3 episodes felt a little odd with all these new people in CTU etc, but now, it's fine and having Chloe there too was a good transition. To say that we don't know these people or care about them isn't a very valid argument, I mean we know them as much as we knew Nina, Tony, Jamie etc in Season 1.

Plus, there's been a lot of intrigue and mystery.. I'm quite enjoying the Araz family, especially Behrooz. I think he's a great addition, an excellent actor and someone you really feel for as you're watching. And I'm also surprised people think the mother is a bad actress, I think she's great.. she's like a perfect replacement for Sherry Palmer (who I still think should have been kept, incidentally).

tvnutz

I agree,I am really liking this season and I like the Araz family.I think both the mother and son are great actors,as is the father i suppose!

it was also getting annoying the way nina and sherry kept showing up each season,you even expected it in the end.i did like them,but bringing them back all the time was kind of stupid.It was a good choice to kill them off,especially when we got to see jack blow nina away! lol

doh.ie

Moe79 wrote:

I mean, yeah the first 2 or 3 episodes felt a little odd with all these new people in CTU etc, but now, it's fine and having Chloe there too was a good transition. To say that we don't know these people or care about them isn't a very valid argument, I mean we know them as much as we knew Nina, Tony, Jamie etc in Season 1.

My argument was that the new batch are nowhere near as strong after 11 episodes as Nina, Tony and Jamie were in season 1, or Michelle in s2, or Chloe and Adam in s3. I think it was a mistake to just try to throw people in who would fit the same mould and just expect that we'd invest in them.

tvnutz wrote:

Exactly,Im not looking for every single detail and storyline to be 100% perfect.After 4 seasons you cant expect a show like this to be constantly original,Im looking for some action and some fun and so far I am getting it.

Man, how can you say this. It *should* be consistently original if it's going to be any good! Tons of TV shows do the same thing week after week (the action series of the 80s, the prime-time soaps from the same era) - what makes a good drama is something *unpredicable*, where we can get caught up in the story and characters. If it's getting to a point where a lot of us cannot do that with 24 any more, then I think the show is falling into something of a rut. I can think of a ton of ways to shake the show up right now, and most of them involve moving the focus away from CTU for a while. The show can be good again, but for this series, I think they've made a lot of mistakes.

HomesickAlien

has anyone else noticed how a character commits suicide every other week?

doh.ie

HomesickAlien wrote:

has anyone else noticed how a character commits suicide every other week?

And it's *ALWAYS* one with vital information that CTU needs!!!

tvnutz

The show is about terrorists and CTU is the counter terrorist unit,you cant do much else with it.

doh.ie

tvnutz wrote:

The show is about terrorists and CTU is the counter terrorist unit,you cant do much else with it.

Yes. So *that's* why we had "The Adventures of Kim and Donny" and "Kim and the Cougar" (TM) and "Kim and the Babysitting Job From Hell" and all those other stories which didn't have any connection to the plot?!

The show can still be about terrorism and CTU, but not rely on the old cliches that it has suffered from the past two years. The first two seasons were very innovative. The most recent two have not been nearly as strong, if only because the template is more transparent now.

segadreamcast

tvnutz wrote:

The show is about terrorists and CTU is the counter terrorist unit,you cant do much else with it.

You're thinking inside the box there. And it's a very, very small box.

tvnutz

they just needed something to do with kim as they had her in the first season as a tool to get jack to do stuff for the terrorists. are you implying that you want more storylines like that? you say the first two seasons were inovative? kim getting kidnapped every damn second of every single day or evey single year. i mean she is damn fine looking,but i wanted to put a bullet in her head so she wouldnt be kidnapped anymore. it was a great decision to toss her out this year. i also found it stupid how nina and sherry kept coming back to what seemed to be forced storylines,i liked them as characters,but it was too much.

this year they have gotten rid of all that crap,the araz family is a very good dynamic,its not the typical terrorist way of doing things,lets see how the season plays out shall we?

doh.ie

tvnutz wrote:

they just needed something to do with kim as they had her in the first season as a tool to get jack to do stuff for the terrorists.

Which was fine. She did get re-kidnapped a lot, but it was still good stuff.

tvnutz wrote:

are you implying that you want more storylines like that?

At the time, certainly in season one, despite her continuing escape/kidnapping trick - which was quite funny - there was nothing repetitive about the plots or how Jack dealt with the terrorists. Even in season two, as bad as Kim's exploits were, they were mildly entertaining and certainly a diversion from the CTU plots, with Kim's emotional state and concern for Jack (and his for her) tying it all back together. I'm not saying we need more stoylines like this (some were quite bad), but we do need less storylines like we've had this and last season.

tvnutz wrote:

i also found it stupid how nina and sherry kept coming back to what seemed to be forced storylines,i liked them as characters,but it was too much.

Had no problem with it in s2, only last year did it seem forced to me.

tvnutz wrote:

this year they have gotten rid of all that crap,the araz family is a very good dynamic,its not the typical terrorist way of doing things,lets see how the season plays out shall we?

I think the great danger is that most of the show's fans will have long left the series by the middle - or at the least taken less ardent interest - because it is simply not as good as it was. By episode 11, there is little or no sign of the writers trying anything new at all - it's all been done before.

I agree the final third may surprise us - it was stronger last year than all of what had gone before - but that doesn't mean it will rescue what has been a lacklustre season to date (to a lot of us, anyway.) Most of us fans will wait to see 'how the season plays out', but for many casual mainstream viewers, they'll probably have tuned out long before that.

flamin moe

its just a matter of taste. i thought the first series was brilliant, personally thought it was garbage for the next two series, and now having got rid of the deadwood is back on form. i dont watch it for the characters, so i'm gald it's all new people