Ipods/mp3 players illegal in Ireland - Sunday Business Post

Tom Dunne

According to an article in the Sunday Business Post, the act of transferring digital media files from one device to another is illegal under Irish Law.

Dick Doyle, the MD of that much loved organisation, IRMA, is quoted as saying that it was "against the law" to copy music onto Ipods and other devices. It is not just illegal files, it appears to refer to the actual act of copying the files, whether they have been legally acquired or not.

Crazy, just crazy.

Crucifix

Oh dear lord. It's not even funny.

Bass.exe

Well, in that case, I just broke the law 626 times last Tuesday. :rolleyes:

MrVestek

Sir, is that an ipod? Please... step out of the vehicul.

Caliden

almost as bad as greece banning computer games there a while back

zoro

Is there a link to back up this? I'm not accusing you Just wondering how accurate it is, or are they just scaremongering.

Peteee

Thats rediculous.

Yeah, a linky would be good (Dont say buy the newspaper either

zoro

Well I meant to the actual law that states it, but the story will do I suppose

Wertz

Achilles wrote:

Sir, is that an ipod? Please... step out of the vehicul.

Would that be yer own vehicle sir?


Typical IRMA bullsh*t. I remember working in a bar way back in the 90's and some IRMA guy showed up wantingto see what entertainment equipment we had. A few weeks later the boss egt's a demand for something like £1500 for the 2 bar's radio/TV equipment. While I understand that performer's rights are important surely laws need to be rewritten to reflect the leaps and bounds that technology has taken even in the last 3 yrs...

BTW dopes illegal too, but does it stop anyone smoking it...?

Dr Bolouswki

Its true

try that google thing... its amazing what you'll find...

djfattony2000

I think this law has been around for a while. Its the same with tape recorders and mini disc, its hardly enforced though.

is_that_so

tom dunne wrote:

Dick Doyle, the MD of that much loved organisation, IRMA

Same bloke that added €3 to Cds on CD-WOW

Robbo

Haven't IRMA a norotoriously bad reputation for actually sending out the cheques to the artists they claim to represent?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

The copyright laws are really struggeling to catch up with modern entertainment media. I think that if they want to prevent widespread piracy then they need to update the law, and offer songs, albums and films at a proper price that will make those you want to obey the law just pay instead. There will always be those who want it for free but if for most law abiding citizens a song costs 50 cent or something they will just pay it. Now as for digital rights management where you can only copy you legally purchased music 5 time of some ****...man will they ever learn

Stephen

What a pack of complete assholes.

Time to visit irma.ie and make use of their "contact us" section again.

Mickie M

tom dunne wrote:

According to an article in the Sunday Business Post, the act of transferring digital media files from one device to another is illegal under Irish Law.

Dick Doyle, the MD of that much loved organisation, IRMA, is quoted as saying that it was "against the law" to copy music onto Ipods and other devices. It is not just illegal files, it appears to refer to the actual act of copying the files, whether they have been legally acquired or not.

Crazy, just crazy.

right so ive illegally transfered pictures from a digital camera, from 1 computer to another, downloading websites (with media contense), and a butt load of other normal activitys anyone with a computer will do.

not that they will do anything about it.......

alleepally

Wish I could read exactly what was said. This seems incredible. Does it mean if I rip a cd I've bought in Ireland and put it on my pc or on an ipod is illegal?

Evilution

tom dunne wrote:

According to an article in the Sunday Business Post, the act of transferring digital media files from one device to another is illegal under Irish Law.

Dick Doyle, the MD of that much loved organisation, IRMA, is quoted as saying that it was "against the law" to copy music onto Ipods and other devices. It is not just illegal files, it appears to refer to the actual act of copying the files, whether they have been legally acquired or not.

Crazy, just crazy.

Yet another reminder of just how archaic a society we live in. Its legal to sell the product, to own the product but not to use it :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

dermot_sheehan

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA28Y2000S50.html

Zaph

Jules: OK so, tell me again about the iPods.
Vincent: OK what do you want to know?
Jules: iPods are legal in Ireland, right?
Vincent: Yeah, they're legal but they ain't hundred percent legal, I mean, you just can't walk into a restaurant, whip out your iPod and start listenin' to music. I mean they want you to listen in your home or certain designated places.
Jules: And that would be where there's a stereo?
Vincent: Yeah, It breaks down like this, OK, it's legal to buy music, it's legal to own it, and if you're the proprietor of iTunes, it's legal to sell it. It's legal to carry it, but...but that doesn't matter, 'cause, get a load of this; all right, if you get stopped by a cop in Ireland, it's illegal for them to search you. I mean that's a right the cops in Ireland don't have.
Jules: Oh, man, I'm goin', that's all there is to it. I'm f***in' goin'.
Vincent: I know, baby, you'd dig it the most.

zoro

gabhain7 wrote:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA28Y2000S50.html

Thanks for the link

It appears that the IRMA were once again spouting sh*te. It's legal under the fair use/dealing stuff.

*sigh*

aidan_walsh

tom dunne wrote:

It is not just illegal files, it appears to refer to the actual act of copying the files, whether they have been legally acquired or not.

Somehow there is a better chance of Hell hosting the Winter Olympics that that one sticking, me thinks...

Tom Dunne

zoro wrote:

Is there a link to back up this? I'm not accusing you Just wondering how accurate it is, or are they just scaremongering.

/me points to the newspaper on the couch

Couldn't find a link on the sbpost.ie

Interesting link, zoro. I always thought Aidrian Weckler was a decent journalist, I wonder how much research actually went into this report.

It does have a sniff of scaremongering by IRMA. Can't really see Gardai arresting you for having music on your MP3 player.

vibe666

zaph wrote:

Jules:
Jules: Oh, man, I'm goin', that's all there is to it. I'm f***in' goin'.
Vincent: I know, baby, you'd dig it the most.

class.

sceptre

tom dunne wrote:

According to an article in the Sunday Business Post, the act of transferring digital media files from one device to another is illegal under Irish Law.

Yeah. Or, er, no.

The act of copying copyrighted-by-others items, digital or otherwise is illegal in Irish law (with a few small exceptions, most of them academic and there's a nice sign up in your local library about that). And that's hardly news as some of us have been saying that for years. Many of the same few of us have been ignoring that for years too and will continue to do so. I like to know all about the laws I habitually break with an intent to continuing.

Did the article really say "transferring digital media files" without mentioning the word "copyright"? Because if this was so it's one of the more ignorant pieces of tech/law journalism I've seen in rather a while. This would include you taking your photos from your camera and putting them on your PC. Anyone think that's illegal?

Obviously the players aren't illegal in Ireland. Can anyone confirm that that was even mentioned in the article?

Creamy Goodness

it didn't actually say that the ipod itself is illegal, but instead it was very confusing to read.

what i got from it was that that transferring songs onto it be it from p2p networks or from a cd you legally own was illegal.

it also went on saying that the only legal way to get songs on your ipod is by using iTunes.

fintan

Yeah Cremo is right

I read that article on sunday as well, it was obvious the journalist was totally confused as to what he was talking about. The eventual gist of the article was that people are breaking the law if they download illegaly off the internet.

They also had a box section talking about itunes being launched in ireland and how great and popular it was.

i'm a www.allofmp3.com man myself

Creamy Goodness

fintan wrote:

i'm a www.allofmp3.com man myself

he also mentioned that that site was abit iffy with irish law

sceptre

Cremo wrote:

what i got from it was that that transferring songs onto it be it from p2p networks or from a cd you legally own was illegal.

That would be correct. Ripping your owned CD to your hard drive would be illegal as well.

it also went on saying that the only legal way to get songs on your ipod is by using iTunes.

Likely correctish on the "only" way. Assuming it's in the licence when purchasing the music, which I haven't read. If some of the other music services allow this in their T&Cs it isn't the only way.

Bass.exe

Cremo wrote:

it didn't actually say that the ipod itself is illegal, but instead it was very confusing to read.

what i got from it was that that transferring songs onto it be it from p2p networks or from a cd you legally own was illegal.

it also went on saying that the only legal way to get songs on your ipod is by using iTunes.

Nowhere in the law does it say it's illegal to transfer music onto your ipod. Anywhere.
It is perfectly legal to make back-up copies, as long as it is within reason, and will not cause the owner of the IP any loss of income. You do have to keep all the backups with the original if you sell or lend the original however. Or destroy them. You COULD argue that this means you have to carry all your CDs around with your mp3 player, but please don't. Someone might take it seriously.
Obviously, when you download music from the net, you are causing the owner of the IP loss of income, so that IS illegal, but under Irish law, the DISTRIBUTOR is the one breaking copyright. Oh, but you can still be charged for holding copies of copyright-infringing material.

Edit: Sceptre - really? where? can you find me that paragraph in the law? No seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. I really want to see it.
Under the EULA that comes with (very nearly) EVERY piece of software, and every piece of music, you are allowed one backup copy. I'm fairly sure that Irish law doesn't say you can't make a copy. It says you can't make an infringing copy. There is a difference.

sceptre

Bass.exe wrote:

Nowhere in the law does it say it's illegal to transfer music onto your ipod. Anywhere.

You're making an unauthorised copy of material under copyright. It's the same as photocopying a book.

It is perfectly legal to make back-up copies, as long as it is within reason,

Show me where it says that (because it doesn't)

and will not cause the owner of the IP any loss of income.

Irrelevant. You just made that bit up.

You do have to keep all the backups with the original if you sell or lend the original however. Or destroy them.

Ditto. Or you're getting confused with the licence inside a number of games that occasionally does allow this. Otherwise, just made up.

but under Irish law, the DISTRIBUTOR is the one breaking copyright.

Interesting little idea. Relevant statutes please.

(edit: I interpreted "distributor as "ISP" for some nutty reason. True to the extent that you don't make a copy on your machine when you save it (as you do). They get hammered for being evil:D pirates though, your penalty is lighter but not non-existant)

Please keep in mind when replying that Ireland is not and has never been a part of the United States of America. Reference to their copyright acts of 1909, 1976 or the DMCA of 1998 won't count.

sceptre

Bass.exe wrote:

Edit: Sceptre - really? where? can you find me that paragraph in the law? No seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. I really want to see it.

Sure, I'll find it. With exams this week you may have to wait till the weekend. However any fool (I'm a fool) should be able to see that copying the work of another without permission if it's still under copyright amounts to an infringing copy unless you're specifically told that you can do it.

(oh btw, I don't worry about people getting sarcastic. I only get annoyed by people getting aggressive (incidentally I'm not doing that either despite having seen this so many times) but your post doesn't read like that and besides, I've seen your posts before and know you don't do that. This one issue is something that people don't seem to be able to reconcile the law with what their doing. I don't either but I just regard the law as an ass on it)

and every piece of music

I've never seen a music CD come with an EULA. I'd love to see a sample (really!) as I've never seen one on a music CD. Ever. Though the darned things come with so much packaging these days...

Software discs (restricted almost always to PC or Mac software) are occasionally an exception as many PC software titles do mention that you can make a single backup with pretty severe provisos. So you can there if they say you can.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

sceptre

OK, here are the relevant bits put simply. Copyright & Related Rights Act 2000.

Duration of copyright on a sound recording:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA28Y2000S26.html

What an infringing copy is:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA28Y2000S44.html (see also subsection 4 of that)

Wo can copy a copyrighted work:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA28Y2000S37.html
(the person who owns the copyright or someone they specifically tell that they can)

What copyright legally is:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA28Y2000S17.html

Now put them all together. You mightn't like what it amounts to (and I never have) but we're not talking about the moral right, we're talking strictly about the legal right.

Obviously the fair-dealing section posted above doesn't apply. If you downloaded a copy from the Net or made a copy in any other way, you're not making use of a "published edition which has already been lawfully made available to the public". You're making use of your own copy. Nice and simple.

Mutant_Fruit

Making a copy doesnt seem to infringe copyright unless you distribute it...

A person infringes the copyright in a work where he or she without the licence of the copyright owner—

(a) sells, rents or lends, or offers or exposes for sale, rental or loan,

(b) imports into the State, otherwise than for his or her private and domestic use,

(c) in the course of a business, trade or profession, has in his or her possession, custody or control, or makes available to the public, or

(d) otherwise than in the course of a business, trade or profession, makes available to the public to such an extent as to prejudice the interests of the owner of the copyright,

linky.

So it seems to be legal to make your own copies, unless someone can find a link that states otherwise.

Bass.exe

OK, the "eula" with the CDs was a typo. I meant the terms and conditions that accompany it.

Yes, where the terms allow, you can copy it as it says in this section of the law: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA28Y2000S86.html
and this also applies to my point about the copies of work... though apparantly only if you are transferring the copy to someone else and the ORIGINAL is destroyed. Ok, my bad.

You could argue this one in favour of the iPod... http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA28Y2000S87.html

No, it's quite odd. I can find nothing strictly allowing the copy of a work.... but there is also nothing specifically prohibiting it either. Yes, I know that infringing copies are illegal, however, there are so many provisios under which you could have a copy of the work which is not infringing, spread thinly across many sections of the law...

Hmm, hang on, this bit seems interesting:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA28Y2000S45.html
This section seems to imply that owning an infringing copy of a work does not make you guilty of copyright infringment. Imply being the operative word. I'm fairly certain another section of law outrightly forbids it. Oh, and that stuff about losing the owner of the IP money?

...makes available to the public to such an extent as to prejudice the interests of the owner of the copyright

That comes up a few more times, in other sections.

I'll get back to you in a bit.... There is a section... 44 I think... that says you can make copies of a work, as long as they don't infringe on the copyright. I just can't find a definition of the copyright on a sound recording. bleh...

Edit: I'm falling behind
Um, why is section 26 relevant?? It only deals with the dissolution of copyright after a period of time.
Ok, fine, I'll admit it. I f00ked up. Section 37 has the section I wanted to see. I was looking for that for ages. Ah well. It's archaic anyway. Needs updating.

Edit2: Oh, and the "eula" on a few of my CDs say, and i paraphrase "You shouldn't need to make a copy of this disc, as if it is kept in it's case it will last forever etc., however, the copyright owner hereby grants permission for one(1) backup copy to be made, subject to *list of rules*". So yes, infringing, unless specifically stated. Hehe, arguing is so much fun.

sceptre

Bass.exe wrote:

You could argue this one in favour of the iPod... http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA28Y2000S87.html

Wouldn't work I'm afraid (though nice one finding that, if that doesn't sound condescending). An iPod copy isn't transient. That section was inserted specifically because of all this new digital stuff we tend to use. Without it, any time a web page is copied into RAM (same for movies, pictures and so on) it'd be an infringement. Should cover cached web pages too as they're technically transient (though it's easy to set them so they're not). It would certainly cover any buffer in an mp3 player (I'm not too familiar with the tech in an iPod but I assume there's some tiny amount of flash memory acting as a buffer in between the HD and the headphone socket) or that same buffer you often get in regular portable CD players. And apart from those simple examples, it's also a good thing as Microsoft don't get money from us as of legal (as opposed to licence) right every time we load Word into RAM. The second part of that is only slotted in there for the enterprisin guy who makes a permanent copy from the transient copy and hence would otherwise have the right to tell the copyright holder to go screw a cow.

It's archaic anyway. Needs updating.

Absolutely. Shocking for a law that's less than five years old.

You know when they passed the original US copyright Act (1909, we've had one here since 1714 while they had a hodgepodge of useless crap throughout the 19th ecntury that didn't recognise foreign copyrights (Dickens got pissed more than once about this)) they didn't invite many of the relevant parties to put their case before commitee. They left out the motion picture industry and companies releasing stuff with that new phonograph sor example. And all of the public. As time went on and they put in a few amendments (and a total redrafting in 1976) they invited more and more parties, but never any of the public. Shockingly even with ignoring the public they ended up with reasonable fair-use provisions that enable the public over there to legally use VCRs, rip their music to their hard drive, make tapes for the car and another few things we all do here anyway, illegal or not. The UK and Ireland never bothered their asses. And no we're left in a position where some plonker from IRMA can be interviewed by a national newspaper and truthfully say that purchasing through iTunes may be the only legal way of getting your music on to an iPod. Buy the album in mp3 format again despite the fact that you already bought it in vinyl, tape and CD. We actually /need/ proper fair-use provisions in copyright law but the music industry won't hear of it. And I suspect they'll happily bribe to cement their position if they have to (that's what they've done elsewhere to claw back rights that other consumers in other countries have enjoyed)

So the law's an ass and being ignored by almost everyone. In a general sense that won't be news.

Bass.exe

Hang on a second.... I just wonder something...
You aren't allowed to copy music, right? So when you copy your music, purchased on iTunes(I don't use an iPod anyway, so no iTunes) to your iPod, are you not technically making a copy? Or are there clauses in music downloaded from iTunes giving specific permissions to copy the music? I wouldn't know, I've never used iTunes.

Also, the permissions on my CDs, allowing me a back-up copy... does that have to be an exact reproduction or not? Can I copy to a HDD instead? And technically speaking, changing a CD to mp3 is "altering" it... sort of.
Either way, I'm gonna keep breaking the law. Plus I snuck my mp3 player in from america, which I'm fairly sure is a "bad thing" anyway.

sceptre

Bass.exe wrote:

Hang on a second.... I just wonder something...
You aren't allowed to copy music, right? So when you copy your music, purchased on iTunes(I don't use an iPod anyway, so no iTunes) to your iPod, are you not technically making a copy? Or are there clauses in music downloaded from iTunes giving specific permissions to copy the music? I wouldn't know, I've never used iTunes.

It's a copy. I can only assume (like you) that they allow you to copy it to your device in the licence. I'd be interested in anyone who uses iTunes confirming this.

Also, the permissions on my CDs, allowing me a back-up copy... does that have to be an exact reproduction or not? Can I copy to a HDD instead?

Depends on the wording of the permission. if it just says "archival copy for backup purposes" or similar it's your own business how you do it.

Plus I snuck my mp3 player in from america, which I'm fairly sure is a "bad thing" anyway.

Mine came from Hong Kong which may well be worse:) Misdeclared on the customs form as well.

Tom Dunne

sceptre wrote:

Did the article really say "transferring digital media files" without mentioning the word "copyright"? Because if this was so it's one of the more ignorant pieces of tech/law journalism I've seen in rather a while. This would include you taking your photos from your camera and putting them on your PC. Anyone think that's illegal?

Yes, it did say that (or it said copying rather than transferring). Again, I don't have a link to the story, but I agree it was really the journalist taking IRMA's word and treating it as Gospel. No, it didn't directly say MP3 players/Ipods are illegal, but in view of what the article is saying, what's the point in owning such a device if it is illegal to copy stuff to it?

He did not clearly make the distinction between copying legally downloaded files and illegally downloaded files. So, as you say, are we breaking the law using our digital cameras? Am I breaking the law copying music I have composed myself? (Maybe that's a different law my own music is breaking, crimes against humanity and all that ).

po0k

IRMA can suck my balls.

Mr E

A friend of mine sent me the link for the article yesterday.

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=1587-qqqx=1.asp

Its *possible* that its bad journalism (misquoting Dick Doyle). I think Dick meant that it was illegal to copy illegally downloaded music onto iPods.

Loved the quotes from "John" at the end of the article....

kenmc

tom dunne wrote:

He did not clearly make the distinction between copying legally downloaded files and illegally downloaded files. So, as you say, are we breaking the law using our digital cameras? Am I breaking the law copying music I have composed myself? (Maybe that's a different law my own music is breaking, crimes against humanity and all that ).

From what I can see in this thread, he doesn't even specifically limit it to music at all - just digital media files. So sticking your project onto a floppy to give to a lecturer is illegal. Taking your pictures to your grandmas to show her is illegal. Writing a song, and recording it to your hard disk is fine (analog-digital copy). but try getting it off that hard disk and onto an mp3 player. or emailing it to a record studio or radio station....
eek what a minefield.
I think I'll just plug my headphones back in and let this all wash over...

Tom Dunne

TmB wrote:

Its *possible* that its bad journalism (misquoting Dick Doyle). I think Dick meant that it was illegal to copy illegally downloaded music onto iPods.

Thanks for the link, I couldn't find it on sbpost.ie

I think it is a combination of bad journalism and scaremongering by IRMA. We all know it is illegal to posess illegally downloaded music and consequently copying them to a device is illegal. But that distinction is not made in the article.

Mr E

I thought that the "The Irish Recorded Music Association (Irma) has sent out almost 10,000 cease-and-desist letters to “serial file-sharers'‘ in universities and institutions." line was very amusing..... Now THATS scaremongering. I find that 10,000 figure extremely hard to believe.

stakey

I did a presentation in computer ethics/professional development in my computing science course last year on a topic very similar to this.

What i found firstly was trying to track down irish copyright law is a pain in the ass!

But, from what I remember making a copy of an album you own is perfectly legal as long as you dont sell, lend, rent or make any money from it. If its for your own personal use that is perfectly okay (im not 100% sure of this now).

Irish law is becoming almost irrelevant though. Most EU countries have ratified the European Union Copyright Directive, this is a very bad piece of legislation. Basically copying a cd/dvd for your own personal use will be illegal, uploading files to the public p2p networks will be illegal also, infact playing a cover of a copyrighted song on grafton street could get you in trouble with this piece of legislation.

In short this is the EU version of the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (an act that will send shivers up any music lovers spine).

This quote, "Ireland has not yet transposed the Copyright Directive into national law, and no draft text of any such implementation has been made public."taken from this website gives music lovers in ireland a little bit of hope for a while.

On the EULA argument as far as I know and have read its confined to software only.

"Short for End-User License Agreement, the type of license used for most software. An EULA is a legal contract between the manufacturer and/or the author and the end user of an application. The EULA details how the software can and cannot be used and any restrictions that the manufacturer imposes (e.g., most EULA’s of proprietary software prohibit the user from sharing the software with anyone else)."

Taken from www.webopedia.com

In regards to allofmp3.com and itunes etc, as far as i know once you download the song and pay for it you copy it onto as many mediums as you like but again you are prohibited from making money from it.

As for IRMA, i was working in a video shop years ago, the manager was there locking the place up with me one night when this IRMA guy saunters in and claims the shop had to start paying IRMA on a monthly basis. The video shop managers reply was I dont play music in the shop why do i have to pay. There answer was because the videos played in the shop had music in the background and at the end of them. Total nonsense!

statto

kenmc wrote:

From what I can see in this thread, he doesn't even specifically limit it to music at all - just digital media files. So sticking your project onto a floppy to give to a lecturer is illegal. Taking your pictures to your grandmas to show her is illegal. Writing a song, and recording it to your hard disk is fine (analog-digital copy). but try getting it off that hard disk and onto an mp3 player. or emailing it to a record studio or radio station....
eek what a minefield.
I think I'll just plug my headphones back in and let this all wash over...

I am not sure but as you own the copywrite to your project, photos and anything else you create you can legally copy them to any media you like. It's coping copywrited content that you don't own without the copywriter’s permission that's illegal. So if iTunes were to give Irish users permission to copy from their PC's to their iPods then IRMA wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

mr_angry

I love certain pieces of the article itself, such as:

Sunday Business Post wrote:

However, industry executives remain concerned that the majority of music downloads continue to occur on illegal websites. “In the last two years, we've lost a lot of money because of piracy and pirate websites,” said the Irish country manager of a major music label, who did not want to be named.

“Look at the industry's figures.

“They're down year on year. But the problem is how to fight it. The industry has had little choice but to sign up to iTunes.”

No wonder he didn't want to be named. EMI had their most profitable year ever in 2003, with their net profit being up a staggering 22% on the previous year. Overall, CD sales were down, primarily because the record companies deliberately cut down the volume of CDs they were sending to retail outlets. Other people have also speculated that it may have been because of the amount of sh!te in the charts.

So, volume shipped goes down, overall sales go down, and profits go way up, and thanks to some spectacularly bad journalism, they still get to claim that file-sharing is devestating their industry. Its win-win-win for the music industry as long as our journalists keep pouring our the same old crap-crap-crap.

Right enough, the major concern is the new European digital copyright law which must be ratified by Ireland within the next 18 months. (Any chance of a referrendum on that Bertie?) The most worrying thing is that it gives private copyright holders the right to raid the premisis of copyright infringers, regardless of the scale of their infringement, without the presence of the gardai. This means the IRMA can turn up at your door, force their way in, seize any of your equipment and take it away without the Gardai being there.

Thankfully, we can look forward to a future of anonymous file-sharing and quantum encryption which will totally confound the music industry. Of course, this will also allow people like terrorists to share information and stuff freely without any real chance of being caught or monitored. One day, someone in the pentagon will come into work and say "Hey! We just supported the music industry in forcing the development of a technology that seriously hinders our ability to fight the War On Terror™". Well done guys. Yes you have.

galactus

SyxPak wrote:

IRMA can suck my balls.

I believe the prefered term in genteel company is "tea-bagging".

Acerferrari3200

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=1587-qqqx=1.asp

The story form the Sunday B Post . !

Trojan

Dick Doyle wrote:

Dick Doyle, the managing director of Irma, told The Sunday Business Post that it was “against the law'‘ to copy music onto iPods and other devices. “People should know that private copying from one medium to another is illegal,” he said.

“There is no private copying exemption in Irish law. You cannot burn downloaded music onto CDs. You cannot transfer it onto an iPod.”

Ok. so "copying from one medium to another is illegal". This means that playing a cd via your computer is also illegal (not if you go directly via cdrom h/w) since you're privately copying the music from the medium of compact disc to the medium of silicon (sound card and/or CPU) before outputting to speakers.

It may be illegal, but the law is moronic.

So sue me Dick.