Vampire Programme on RTE

The Real B-man

OMG im sickend these teenagers are just depressed and need to resolve the issues i mean sucking blood the risks involved aids etc what are your views are these people really vampires :rolleyes: or just attention seeking depressed teenagers

Nightwish

it was a v.good programme but it showed depressed teenagers in a bad light.i was very like 1 of the girls and am now very like one of the sane vampires shown at the start!!! vampirism is not all about shunning daylight and sleeping in coffins y'know, but as was shown there are those who take it too far

monkeyfudge

vam·pire ** *P***Pronunciation Key**(vmpr)

n.
A reanimated corpse that is believed to rise from the grave at night to suck the blood of sleeping people.

A person, such as an extortionist, who preys upon others.

A vampire bat.

So.. eh... no they aren't vampires.

ixoy

Thought it was quite decent. She didn't impose her views on the teenagers but listened to them respectfully, which is a good thing. Only at the end did she voice her opinion to the leader, saying what a lot of us would think. They also earned Brownie points for, unlike what the ad implies, not being overly dramatic with the subject matter and being farcical. Not at all shabby.

Fysh

Was a pretty good show, I thought. Was good to see that there wasn't much preaching - interesting to see that the self-proclaimed "vampire" who "helps" other vampires via his website is quite obviously a predator (which matches with what he claims to be, I suppose) but doesn't seem prepared to admit it. Dodgy dodgy git. I was surprised they didn't go into more detail about the girl who was shown feeding, but then again she probably didn't want to - can't say she looked like the happiest teenager, really. And, was it just me, or was there some sort of dodgy sexual thing going on between her and the leader? (I mean, in that respect, he didn't seem much different from some pervy old bloke grooming kids online).

My only gripe is that they didn't seem to make any distinction between goths and vampires. (As Nightwish has apparently done, unless I'm really missing something). I mean, yeah, ok, there's a degree of overlap, but being someone who gets off on drinking blood is not the same as someone who likes dressing in 19th century clothes, which in turn is not the same as being someone who enjoys pretending (or is genuinely convinced) that they are in fact a reanimated corpse who needs to routinely drink blood in order to survive. It's one thing to be into gothic fashion and lifestyle etc, another again to have some sort of sexual kick from drinking someone else's blood, but a bit deluded (to say the least) to be honestly convinced that you are not human and are something akin to a revived dead body. I mean, aside from clothes, a bit of dental work and having a coffin in her bedroom, what made the first one interviewed in depth so radically different from anyone else her age? (although nothing beats the teenage girl who said she had to drink blood because she was anaemic, for sheer comedy value. Les Enfants Du Sang, anyone?)

Unsurprisingly though, they picked people who seemed to be very keen on the image side of things, which in my limited experience tends to correlate with people who have unhappy backgrounds. Would be interesting to see if there's anyone into it who didn't have some sort of crap childhood or whatever...

Nightwish

there is an overlap in the vampire/goth genre. most vampires i know are goths. i am interested in but rarely practise vampirism. i would have been extremely like the girl who was unsure when she met jason, a few years ago.depressed, self harming etc, and that does not make u a vampire a jason suggests.no-one is born a vampire, its just a lifestyle choice like the people at the start said. its so sad to see these teenagers doing it for the image.i mean there was how many of them in that 1 town where jason lived.

CodeMonkey

Nightwish wrote:

there is an overlap in the vampire/goth genre. most vampires i know are goths. i am interested in but rarely practise vampirism. i would have been extremely like the girl who was unsure when she met jason, a few years ago.depressed, self harming etc, and that does not make u a vampire a jason suggests.no-one is born a vampire, its just a lifestyle choice like the people at the start said. its so sad to see these teenagers doing it for the image.i mean there was how many of them in that 1 town where jason lived.

Vampirism? Being a vampire? Eh? I only saw the last 10 mins of the programme so excuse my ignorance. Your definition of a vampire seems to be quite different to what I am thinking which is what monkeyfudge copy and pasted above. What exactly is a vampire then to people who practice vampirism? Is it just a lifestyle that involves drinking blood and sleeping in coffins or do they believe they are vampires in the traditional sense?

Chalk

they had regular goths at the start talking about it.
they were talking about the more harmful aspects of "vampirism"

the whole show was ridiculous tho
that kid who was just 16 and that dope off big brother just left them there without saying **** to that scumbag, she was 12 when they met online ffs [he was 28]

if theyre putting something like that on you need loius theroux or some ith at least half a brain to make sense of it.
you could see yer one wanted to take jay-jay down a peg but couldnt think of anything to say to him.

wasted opportunity imo

Zaph0d

Once health and age concerns have been overcome I can't see what the big deal is. Masai tribes people famously live off a diet of cows milk and blood (or so they claim). The scene with the girl 'feeding' looked like someone sucking on a cut. Hey I've done that so I must be a vampire.

Anna, the presenter, is famous for being a lesbian reality show contestant. I can imagine a show very similar to the vampire show being made about young homosexuals with a presenter interviewing them and later filming them kissing each other. The presenter could then show obvious digust and say 'I don't know, it just seems wrong', 'They just seem like bored teenagers to me' and 'How do you know these young people really are homosexual? Do you think they will be gay forever?' What reaction would such a show have provoked in Ireland 20 yrs ago?

I thought Anna's attitudes were the same as those that have been directed towards her in the past.

ixoy

Once health and age concerns have been overcome

Umm but they haven't? Her main problem was that the "head vampire" came across as a predatory sorts, picking on young vulnerable teens for his own gain. The health implications were also not all that clear or laid out by the wannabe vampyrs so I think she had a valid point - this wasn't always a bunch of adults making these decisions.

Vampirism and homosexuality are not comparable. Don't try and go there.

Nightwish

CodeMonkey wrote:

Vampirism? Being a vampire? Eh? I only saw the last 10 mins of the programme so excuse my ignorance. Your definition of a vampire seems to be quite different to what I am thinking which is what monkeyfudge copy and pasted above. What exactly is a vampire then to people who practice vampirism? Is it just a lifestyle that involves drinking blood and sleeping in coffins or do they believe they are vampires in the traditional sense?

Trekkies: people dress up as characters from the show, they attend conventions, discuss the program. Most vampires are the same.
there are those who believe they are truly vampires and so go the whole hog by sleeping in coffins and fearing garlic and crosses etc. the guy in the program seemed to pick out every depressed/messed up kid in town and tell them they are vampires. no1 is a vampire. they dont exist, but there are those that role-play:dressing up in the clothes, and small-scale bloodsucking, enjoying books/movies of the vampire genre, without being completely obsessed. in vampire clubs in london, you can go in and meet with others without having to suck blood, its not necessarily something you have to fulfil when role-playing. thats all it is role playing and those who live their lives truly believing they are vampires are truly misguided.

monkeyfudge

They seemed to be trying to make out that "vampirism" was like a sexual orientation. And that you had to wrestle with yourself before coming out as a vampire. I reckon that one girl was just vamp-curious.

It's Bram Stoker that I feel sorry for....

Zombienosh

the program was good for RTE, i seen something similiar before about american vampire wannabes.
these so called "vampires" really do annoy me though, theyre just sad pathetic bored kids most of the time. its like the latest fashion trend for all teeny bopper kids who listen to cradle of filth.

Zaph0d

Intolerance is often dressed up with age and health concerns. How often does a discussion about illegal drug use, prostitution or any other private activity between consenting adults end up with Mr or Mrs disgusted saying "It's the young people I feel sorry for" or "What about the long term health implications?".

I felt the theme of the program was "Ooh, ooh look at these disgusting freaks who think they're vampires". This makes good mindless TV like programs about obesity (Footage of super obese people meant to provoke reactions of "Ooh Jesus how can anyone be that fat, that's so disgusting" while the voiceover provides some obligatory discussion about the danger to kids and health).

It was a lot more entertaining than the last show I saw Anna doing where she showed some bloke how to cook a meal for his wife.

Chalk

well perhaps remove trhe word vampire then

...

look at this 31 yr old man who meets up with 12 yr olds via the internet to share bodily fluids

monkeyfudge

Nightwish wrote:

Trekkies: people dress up as characters from the show, they attend conventions, discuss the program.

Are there any Trekkies who actually believe they are member of Star Fleet? And I'm sure there are very few who dress up as klingons 24/7.. well.. maybe Bill Bailey..

Nightwish

Zaph0d wrote:

Intolerance is often dressed up with age and health concerns. How often does a discussion about illegal drug use, prostitution or any other private activity between consenting adults end up with Mr or Mrs disgusted saying "It's the young people I feel sorry for" or "What about the long term health implications?".

I felt the theme of the program was "Ooh, ooh look at these disgusting freaks who think they're vampires". This makes good mindless TV like programs about obesity (Footage of super obese people meant to provoke reactions of "Ooh Jesus how can anyone be that fat, that's so disgusting" while the voiceover provides some obligatory discussion about the danger to kids and health).

It was a lot more entertaining than the last show I saw Anna doing where she showed some bloke how to cook a meal for his wife.

there are health implications when bloodsucking. in the vampire clubs you must produce an up to date cert stating you are healthy to be allowed into the feeding room.

regeneration

well I think the idea of a 30 year old loner grooming confused teenagers over the internet is a tad perverted, and frankly I found him creepy; if he was _that_ understanding of the situation, and geuine, he would NOT groom kids, and leave well alone until someone is old enough to make a wise choice, rather than some scattered 16year old sucking blood from that guy's arm.

The rest of them were, frankly, sad; there's clear signals being sent out here that these people have some deep feelings of resentment towards themselves that they must fashion their lives into some obvious fiction.

Even using the word vampire in the first place is delusional (btw, I dont think vampires are technically reanimated corpses; )

Fysh

Chalk wrote:

they had regular goths at the start talking about it.
they were talking about the more harmful aspects of "vampirism"

the whole show was ridiculous tho
that kid who was just 16 and that dope off big brother just left them there without saying **** to that scumbag, she was 12 when they met online ffs [he was 28]

I did find it curious that the show relied on people defining what vampirism was for them (which, as far as I could work out, involved basically dressing like a goth but drinking blood and optionally claiming that you really were undead as opposed to just a self-deluded human being) rather than stating some definition.

But - that 16 year old was legally old enough to have sex and get married, so while pretty much anyone would think that the older guy was a rather revolting predator who was clearly taking advantage of vulnerable teenagers, there's not a great deal of point in having a row with him about it until you can get proof that could be shown to the social services. The next step is to try and get an episode of McIntyre Undercover to investigate them

Another thing is that, if she had just ripped into him, the beeb would be accused of discriminating against them and the goth community at large. Which would probably be more hassle than the program was worth. Besides, the point the show was making was that these kids are basically being exposed to predators like that guy because they're turning away from home and nobody's caring for them or about them. The emphasis should be on finding out why these kids are willing to turn to someone as generally dodgy as him (offering to let someone suck your blood on the day they meet you, when you haven't got a certificate from a recent blood test to prove your blood is clean?) for advice and someone to look up to.

(As for the overlap between goths and vampires, granted that there's always a degree of crossover. But, given that most goths I know have a bit of a thing about the image anyway, I don't see why it's any worse for someone to become a vampire for the image than it is to become a goth for the image. Adopting any lifestyle for the image is generally a sign of some sort of self-esteem problem, in my experience - doesn't really matter what image you go for, it's the fact that you're trying to define yourself by your appearance that's important)

Nightwish

vampires is just a subject some goths are interested in. i know there are those, sorry to generalise here, ususally teenagers searching for their identity, who dress in the gothic style just for the image, and those "vampires" on the program were vampires for the image too. i personally am interested in all things gothic: books, music, art etc and i started dressing the way I did when i was 12, for attention, and as a reflection of what was going on inside of me, then stopped for a few years as i got pestered the whole time, but i felt fake dressing in other clothes so 5 years ago i started dressing in the gothic style again. so dont dismiss them all as those who are doing it for the image. although from the program, those teenagers were. i mean just cos your anemic doesnt mean your a vampire!

Hobbes

I thought Goths were depressed mimes. Now your telling me mimes suck blood too. :eek:

... Incidently a friend of mine works in a Libaray in the US. One of her co-workers is a self professed vampire. Sleeps in the coffin, all dressed up when he comes into work too. So she used to bring garlic+crosses in and leave it on her desk. He reported her for mocking his cultural beliefs.

Elmo

Produced by the BBC.

I only got to see the end of it with Anna asking do you think they will be a vampire forever.

I think her WYB documentaries are better.

Why is she on the afternoon show?

Fysh

Nightwish wrote:

vampires is just a subject some goths are interested in. i know there are those, sorry to generalise here, ususally teenagers searching for their identity, who dress in the gothic style just for the image, and those "vampires" on the program were vampires for the image too. i personally am interested in all things gothic: books, music, art etc and i started dressing the way I did when i was 12, for attention, and as a reflection of what was going on inside of me, then stopped for a few years as i got pestered the whole time, but i felt fake dressing in other clothes so 5 years ago i started dressing in the gothic style again. so dont dismiss them all as those who are doing it for the image. although from the program, those teenagers were. i mean just cos your anemic doesnt mean your a vampire!

I've been described occasionally as a closet goth because I like the music, architecture, art, books etc but by virtue of being a lazy bollix, I could never be arsed spending the requisite time and money on my appearance. I don't think everyone who looks that way is doing it just for the image, although I do kind of wonder why they bother putting that much time into the look.

Would have liked the program more if they'd talked about the vampire scene in general a bit more - I've heard about vampire clubs in London, Manchester and Sheffield (though this last one sounds like a bit of a joke) and it might have helped balance the view a bit rather than coming away suggesting that all vampire wannabes are in fact either internet pervs or people with personal problems and crap childhoods....

Nightwish

i totally agree with Fysh. They only focused on the weird perv Jason.the vamp scene is huge in the UK compared to her. I wonder are there any clubs in Dublin?
the reason i spend so much effort and money into how i look is because i feel good dressed like that. my self esteem rises to a normal level!

Tusky

Goths are just nerds in make up. This has been true for every goth I have ever met anyway.

And vampires dont exist

Nightwish

i assure u I aint a nerd

simu

I was disappointed that it was made in England - Irish vampires would have been way funnier and more interesting.

monkeyfudge

Yes. And Ireland is the only country with a Dracula Museum... as to my knowledge...

regeneration

monkeyfudge wrote:

Yes. And Ireland is the only country with a Dracula Museum... as to my knowledge...

vampires were around before bram stoker. in fact I recall a documentary that shows vampire-like myths from most civilised nations throughout history, with the origins of the blood sucking being .. well ... let's just say it's very fair to describe vampirism as a sexual thing.

monkeyfudge

Yes. But Stoker created the whole idea of the gothic romantic vampire. He added the sexual element to the whole thing. It's this type of vampire that these people are emulating.

Personally my favourite is the Chinese hopping vampire....

regeneration

well correct me if im wrong, but surely it was early cinema & bella lugosi who inspired the whole evening dress attire for vampires. ive not read bram stoker's book, but i can't imagine there's much templating of styles in it.

the origins of vampires suggested relates specifically to the class myth about vampires liking virgins, and that supposed virgins being found raped (and thus bleeding) were attibuted to some undead creature...

Fysh

monkeyfudge wrote:

Yes. But Stoker created the whole idea of the gothic romantic vampire. He added the sexual element to the whole thing. It's this type of vampire that these people are emulating.

I'm not so sure he was the first one to do it - in mych the same way as the maypoles and witches broomsticks were not particularly subtle hints at sexuality, I suspect that the whole blood-sucking aspect of vampirism was intented as a more subtle form of penetration, having certain characteristics in common with sex (particularly when biting the neck) without being too explicit.

Also, I'd point at Anne Rice in an accusing manner, rather than Stoker, if you want the real source of the poncy romantic vampire. Stoker's vampire was at least utterly dedicated to being evil and manipulative - Rice basically gave us a priviledged rich boy who finally had something nasty happen to him and basically has a massive angst trip about whether his pathetically naive black-and-white personal morality can endure once he's been turned into a monster who must prey on the living. Stoker was readable; Rice was like loads of different teen angst poems somehow melded into one and published in book form.

and yes, Irish vampires would have been great, especially if they'd found Diddly-Ireland ones "Oh arr, begorrah, I be a vampire culchie, so I do. Theres nothin I likes more than drinkin a bit o' blood on the oul weekend, like".

Edited to add : Regarding Bela Lugosi etc - Stoker actually published his book before then and the point about Count Dracula's image was that he was a Count - dressed in the finest clothes of the Victorian era, since he could afford to do so. I would assume that this is where the image comes from, although the psychology doesn't quite match since even the stalker perv dude who was quite evidently a predator in the program wasn't preparted to admit to as much, whereas the Count would have done so with glee.

Nightwish

I like your in depth knowledge Fysh!!! u seem like a v interesting person!!!