Can they do this?

The_Bullman

Yesterday evening when I got home from work I found out that my internet connection was cut off. Unfortunatly I didn't have time then to ring up to see what the problem was. Today I again returned from work to see I was still disconnected. So, I phoned the support line to see what the problem was.

Basically the support guy told me that they disconnected me because the copyright agency ( I can't be sure of this name but he said something to that effect ) had detected torrents and my isp had to cut me off.

The guy on the phone named the 2 offending torrents which I was indeed downloading.

I asked him why I wasn't notified that I was about to be cut off, or given a warning or anything and he said that it was their practice as they used to try and phone but they didn't get through sometimes or some crap excuse.

He asked me to remove the offending torrents which I have and I'd be reconnected. Of course I am still not connected back up again. I've ro resort to feckin dial-up

Are they allowed to cut me off without notifying me?
Is the copyright agency a bullshit excuse?

They have already seriously throttled my internet connection on p2p programs. So much so that I could only get 10-14kbs from a meg line

Am I right to be annoyed?

I know that what I was downloadin was wrong and all that and I understand I'll go to hell for it

Moriarty

Irish ISPs have been getting letters from the RIAA/MPAA for over a year at least, informing them when their customers have been grabbing stuff of 'theirs'.

The ISP is allowed deal with it however they want, as you'll find it's in the TOS of your contract that you agree to not download any copyrighted material. Generally though, from what I've heard, they just phone you and ask you to stop/delete the stuff.

Digiweb are the first isp I've heard of that has actually temporarily cut people off for it.

<edit: You're with digiweb, right?>

ricey

same thing happened me bud got back on-line no probs
do but i think its a bull if you ask me lookin like torrents are finished do

Moriarty

Infini, don't link or mention warez sites here.

Also, suprnova went down because they couldn't handle the high traffic volumes and constant ddos attacks, it had nothing to do with any (threatend or real) legal action.

Infini

Fair enough, moriarty.
I only mentioned that link as it was funny the first time I read it.
About suprnova, although that's one of the reasons going around, the legal threats theory has been circulating on some news posts from google news.

CyberGhost

NO! port changing won't help anything they are blocking the threads, just read here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=186361&goto=newpost
at the end

I hate digicrap, and the way everything is going south for the customer here in Ireland, ISPs are like "you give us your money, we don't guarantee you anything, we can screw up as we see fit and you must still pay us"

third world countries are ahead of Ireland in communications.

I also hate those hollywood b*****ds blaming everything on the internet, they lose money because they make s****y movies, not because of the internet, what do they think, if they block it, I will go to cinema or buy a dvd? hell no, I will wait years and tape record it when they show it on tv, but I doubt it will be worth it.

come on, 15 euro for an audio cd, 25 for a dvd, 50! for a game? are they crazy!?

greedy b*****ds.

I mean seriously if they block all the p2p and everything, will there be any need for a speed higher then 256kbps? it's more then enough for http and email,

Moriarty

There's much more to the internet than email, http and p2p you smacktard.

Infini

True about that.
Note: its 20 Euro for a CD, 30 Euro for a DVD and 60 Euro for a game.
In anycase I only use Bittorrent to get anime, expecially since forbidden planet stopped selling it and they were the only place really into it even though their prices were sky high.
Man, if things were more affordable....

Infini

Uh, Smacktard???

CyberGhost

Moriarty wrote:

There's much more to the internet than email, http and p2p you smacktard.

like what? list the other interests except email(newsgroups included) and http.

davej

like what? list the other interests except email(newsgroups included) and http.

I would say you were a troll if it wasn't apparent that you have no clue what you are talking about.

Online gaming
Voip telephony
Streaming audio (i.e. radio stations)
VPN connection to the company you work for
Connection Sharing

The list goes on.

davej

MarVeL

Gaming, VoIP, Video Conferencing, Radio, TeleCommuting and Patches all spring to mind

jessy

CyberGhost wrote:

like what? list the other interests except email(newsgroups included) and http.

The Web and the internet is not the same thing!

CyberGhost wrote:

I mean seriously if they block all the p2p and everything

How can they legally do this?

DSLinAbsentia

<rant>
Whether or not you/we like paying rip-off prices for copyrighted materials is immaterial. It's illegal - period. One illegal MP3 on your system could cost you €127,000 - what ISP will take that risk on behalf of any subscriber? If it was your business, would you allow it? If you don't like the laws of the land (or the terms of the contract you agreed to with your ISP) then vote in politicians who agree with you (or move to China).
</rant>

Infini

As it stands its a little pointless. If they had itunes here it would help a lot but as I've heard the people running itunes and other companys running web downloads have been in a prolonged bitchfight with the IMRO over the bloody royalties issue. Although I've heard of the IMRO planning to sue people for downloading music I've not heard of anyone actually being sued yet. Probably because of the rip-off prices and the fact that they're blocking legal download services if they actually tried going through with it would probably cause a massive public backlash over the issue.

Johnny Storm

DSLinAbsentia wrote:

One illegal MP3 on your system could cost you €127,000

Genuine question - where does that figure come from ?
I may need to set fire to my PC if thats the case...

Infini

They would'nt try making an ordinary person pay that much. They'd probably go for a settlement. If they tried taking it to court they would be afraid of the court ruling in the defendants favour. The RIAA in the US has never actally taken a person to court over the downloading music and offered settlements insted as they're afraid of the case going against them.

CyberGhost

davej wrote:

I would say you were a troll if it wasn't apparent that you have no clue what you are talking about.

Online gaming
Voip telephony
Streaming audio (i.e. radio stations)
VPN connection to the company you work for
Connection Sharing

The list goes on.

davej

sigh, I don't even want to discuss it but, online gaming doesn't need speed higher then 256, it's ping that matters, neither does telephony and streaming audio, and connection sharing and VPN don't need higher then 256 either.

yeah yeah, you are all right I'm wrong, let's just bend over and take it up the a** from all the isps and be happy about it. while other countries advance forward.

Infini

Hey Cyberghost, you might want to check out the www.degreez.net forum. Its run by theSHAD0W who created the bittornado client. He might know something on your throttling problem.

Adey2002

I can't believe that your isp disonnected you for your illegal activity which
breached the terms of service that you agreed to abide by! Thats disgusting! How are you supposed to break your monthly cap if you can't download videos and music! If I were you, I would take them to court!

:rolleyes:

CyberGhost

Infini wrote:

Hey Cyberghost, you might want to check out the www.degreez.net forum. Its run by theSHAD0W who created the bittornado client. He might know something on your throttling problem.

hey Thanks Infini! I'll check it out.

CyberGhost

Adey2002 wrote:

I can't beleive that your isp disonnected you for your illegal activity which
breached the terms of service that you agreed to abide by! Thats disgusting! How are you supposed to break your monthly cap if you can't download videos and music! If I were you, I would take them to court!

:rolleyes:

yep, that's digicrap for you.

Infini

Well its official, there IS AN ISP WORSE THAN EIRCOM! :cool:

The_Bullman

Adey2002 wrote:

I can't believe that your isp disonnected you for your illegal activity which
breached the terms of service that you agreed to abide by! Thats disgusting! How are you supposed to break your monthly cap if you can't download videos and music!

Just a note to say that I am on an uncapped line-which I'm paying quite a bit for I hasten to add

As for the terms of service. Do you have to sign for the terms and conditions for them to take effect, or by simply using the service do I have to abide by them? I'm asking because I don't think I signed any t&c and I'm wondering how this leaves me

aidan_walsh

Usually its assumed that if you're using the service, you agree to abide by the T&Cs... And rightfully so, no point setting down rules for some that don't apply to others.

Infini

Better off switching to a bullsh!t free ISP i suppose. Probably an easier solution as well....

Infini

CyberGhost, theSHAD0W recommends changing ISP as well, just so you know.

davej

CyberGhost wrote:

sigh, I don't even want to discuss it but, online gaming doesn't need speed higher then 256, it's ping that matters, neither does telephony and streaming audio, and connection sharing and VPN don't need higher then 256 either.

yeah yeah, you are all right I'm wrong, let's just bend over and take it up the a** from all the isps and be happy about it. while other countries advance forward.

Ah yes you are right of course. I would never want to use a number of the aforementioned services simultaneously now would I...

Stop trying to distract us from the fact that you said this:

like what? list the other interests except email(newsgroups included) and http.

You wanted a list and i gave you one. I'll always remember you as the guy who said the internet is only for email and web browsing.

davej

aidan_walsh

davej wrote:

I'll always remember you as the guy who said the internet is only for email and web browsing.

And warez. Don't forget the warez. God forbid people might actually buy stuff, but hey...

CyberGhost

Infini wrote:

CyberGhost, theSHAD0W recommends changing ISP as well, just so you know.

Thanks for info dude!

davej, make it your sig

intersplat

The_Bullman wrote:

Yesterday evening when I got home from work I found out that my internet connection was cut off. Unfortunatly I didn't have time then to ring up to see what the problem was. Today I again returned from work to see I was still disconnected. So, I phoned the support line to see what the problem was.

Basically the support guy told me that they disconnected me because the copyright agency ( I can't be sure of this name but he said something to that effect ) had detected torrents and my isp had to cut me off.

How did they know what you were downloading ? you could have been downloading your brothers wedding or anything . Did they ask
what you were downloading ?

Infini

doodle_sketch wrote:

And warez. Don't forget the warez. God forbid people might actually buy stuff, but hey...

Well people do deserve money for their work but its good to have them around. Expecially since some of them are too pricey (Adobe premier 800 euro, who the hells gonna spend that much for a program, you could get a low end laptop for that!). Besides how did they know what your downloading, sounds like they're invading your privacy if you ask me! :mad:

aidan_walsh

There are plenty of alternatives out there, you don't need to use Premier. Premier is a package aimed at professionals who can afford it. If you can't, find an alternative.

As for invading your privacy, please... :rolleyes:

koneko

intersplat wrote:

How did they know what you were downloading ? you could have been downloading your brothers wedding or anything . Did they ask
what you were downloading ?

They can see exactly which torrents he was downloading/sharing.

Infini

It's only an example. In anycase most people have'nt got the money to afford half these programs (WinXP Pro about 270 euros) and people should'nt have to. There should be a student sheme where you dont have to pay anymore than 100 euro for a program. Besides most P2P users are STUDENTS who aren't going to use what little money they have after drink and college bills to buy things they probably wont use after they finish their course! :cool:

Infini

koneko wrote:

They can see exactly which torrents he was downloading/sharing.

How exactly can they?!?!?!?

aidan_walsh

All software they need should be provided by the colleges. If they can afford it, they should either get an alternative, or just not use it. Simple as that.

aidan_walsh

Infini wrote:

How exactly can they?!?!?!?

Because they are able to monitor everyhting that goes through their network. Look up articles on the theory of networking to find out how.

koneko

Infini wrote:

How exactly can they?!?!?!?

They're the ISP, all the traffic goes through them. That aside, torrents are public. If you're sharing something out, people are downloading it from you and can pretty much see that (afaik).

Infini

Well in anycase the internet was meant for the free exchange of information in the first place and not something coporate fatcats could control!

aidan_walsh

Infini wrote:

Well in anycase the internet was meant for the free exchange of information in the first place and not something coporate fatcats could control!

:rolleyes:

jbkenn

Infini wrote:

How exactly can they?!?!?!?

Infini

There are no stupid questions, Just stupid people!

Your sig says it all

jbkenn

Infini

Very Funny!

RicardoSmith

Johnny Storm wrote:

Genuine question - where does that figure come from ?
I may need to set fire to my PC if thats the case...

I'd like to know where they got that figure too. But set fire to your PC. That made me laugh. LOL

Infini

How about throwing it off a cliff!

The_Bullman

intersplat wrote:

How did they know what you were downloading ? you could have been downloading your brothers wedding or anything . Did they ask
what you were downloading ?

From what I was told the copyright agency informed my isp that I was downloading 2 torrents which they objected to(for obvious reasons) From there my isp immediatly disconnected me.

I asked why they disconnected me and the support person told me that if they didn't the copyright agency would cut them off. Now I'm sure this can't possibly be right. Can it? Maybe she meant that they would bring them to court or something, but I was left seriously confused by that.

Infini

The_Bullman wrote:

I asked why they disconnected me and the support person told me that if they didn't the copyright agency would cut them off. Now I'm sure this can't possibly be right. Can it? Maybe she meant that they would bring them to court or something, but I was left seriously confused by that.

I don't know how they can do that either. Besides if they even did take it to court it'd be probably be thrown out as ISP's can't be held responsible for what people download. Another thing is why haven't we heard of anything like this on OTHER ISP's. Sounds like plain BS to me.

Infini

Which torrents were they anyway?

aidan_walsh

Infini wrote:

ISP's can't be held responsible for what people download.

Why not?

Infini

Well for starters ISP only provide connections they don't actually control what they're used for. Check out this article and you'll see what i mean: http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=636.
Also its been a tendacy for these retards to sue people without actally taking them to court.(And and to piss off the general public in the process)

aidan_walsh

Infini wrote:

Well for starters ISP only provide connections they don't actually control what they're used for. Check out this article and you'll see what i mean: http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=636.
Also its been a tendacy for these retards to sue people without actally taking them to court.(And and to piss off the general public in the process)

But if the ISP has it written in their terms and conditions that it would in contravention of said T&Cs, shouldn't the ISP then be responsible, as they are failing to uphold their side of the contract by turning a blind eye?