HiMD cheaper at least...

RicardoSmith

The Sony HiMD 600s is €200 in the Sony shop and €169 in Extravision at the moment. The HiMD 700 is something like €269 in Sony and €200 in Extravision. No need for a debate on the format, if you want one you'll know why, and thats the cheapest I've seen.

OfflerCrocGod

You would be MUCH better off buying yourself an MP3 player and not having to mess around with Sony's horrid software, making mp3s sound even worst then they already do.

Guy:Incognito

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

You would be MUCH better off buying yourself an MP3 player .

Not if you want to record from a hifi or do live recording as MOST (note, not all) Mp3 players dontdirectly support this, and you can upload hi-md recordings which is nice.

RicardoSmith

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

You would be MUCH better off buying yourself an MP3 player and not having to mess around with Sony's horrid software, making mp3s sound even worst then they already do.

Since you want a debate on the format, what mp3 player will have the same battery life, take standard batteries, Record from mic analog and optical for long recordings up to PCM standard and be as small and light. Have removable 1GB capacity for €8 per disk or card. For 169 or less?

I'm not saying its perfect, what player is? The big drawbacks are USB 1.1, dire software and their DRM. Other than that its a nice format. But you either have a use for it or you don't.

John R

Anyone thinking of buying one of these would be well advised to try one out first, Sony have had a nasty habit for some time of putting the weediest amplifiers into MD units to extend battery life. If you look through MD forums headphone amplifiers are almost the most popular accessories for Sony MD units as many models are unlistenable in anything over silence.

RicardoSmith

"...many models are unlistenable in anything over silence..." How is anyone going to take that seriously. :rolleyes:

The actual facts....

The law in some EU countries (France) places limitations on the maximum volume for portable audio. Sony have put a 2-mW+2-mW amplifier in their EU Hi-MD units as opposed to 5-mW+5-mW offerings in the US for example. If doesn't effect what they are mainly used for, which is recording. Its also very dependant on what earphones you use too.

What you are confusing that with is the 1 bit digital amp, which Sony only use to increase the battery life. Whereas on some sharp units its used to improve the sound quality. Its only on the higher Sony models anyway. The lower end models don't have a digital amp.

Its quite common for audiophiles to use amplified earphones. You can get them for other portable products like the iPod, and iRivers. For example...

http://www.ipoding.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2040
http://www.dansdata.com/bithead.htm
http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=3&subTopicID=29&productID=0000010001&datafeed=ipoding
http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=3&subTopicID=27

bk

RicardoSmith wrote:

Since you want a debate on the format, what mp3 player will have the same battery life, take standard batteries, Record from mic analog and optical for long recordings up to PCM standard and be as small and light. Have removable 1GB capacity for €8 per disk or card. For 169 or less?

Pretty much most of the iRiver flash players.

- Far lighter and smaller then MD
- Less sensitive to impact.
- Typically 40 hours from 1 AA battery (or rechargeable lithium ion, depending on model).
- Record from Mic, radio or line in directly to MP3 (upto 320kbps) or wav.
- USB2

Obviuosly the memory isn't removable, but that isn't a problem if you have a PC as it works as a USB mass storage device and doesn't require any extra crappy DRM software like the Sony HiMD does.

If you got a little extra money then I'd stretch for a iRiver H1xx or H3xx with 20 or 40GB memory for a size only slightly larger then a MD (and significantly smaller then a MD and 20 or 40 GB worth of MD discs

I'm not meaning to rant on you RicardoSmith, I realise you like HiMD and that is cool, I just want to point out to other people who might read this thread that there are devices at least equivalent and in my opinion much better in the MP3 world.

I used MD for years, long before MP3 ever came out, I went through a number of MD units and I absolutely loved them, but 9 months ago I bought a iRiver H120 and I have never looked back. The H120 is simply in a different league compared to my MD units, the sound quality is far superior and it is a much more convenient and user friendly device (thanks to dumping the Sony software). My MD discs are gathering dust at the bottom of my cupboard now.

RicardoSmith

Not everyone is looking for an MP3 player. Basically you can't match the spec without paying a lot more. A HD player isn't a little more. Unless you mean €100 is a little? Flash players can't record at the same quality, or have the same options or have the same capacity as cheap. You can stuff a few 1GB disks in you bag and record away for hours. All I'm doing is pointing out that if someone wanted a HiMD heres a cheap source.

The place to debate the format, isn't here. I said that in my first post. But would you guys listen..... :rolleyes:

Incidentally I don't have HiMD. Would consider if it was cheap enough. Aound €100 would be ok. In the meanwhile a €50 MD is an cheap way for me to record meetings, gigs, sessions etc. I've a couple of them. If I leave it on the bus or stand on it in a pub, so what. Drop your iRiver in a pint and down a stairs and see how happy you are!

bk

RicardoSmith wrote:

Not everyone is looking for an MP3 player. Basically you can't match the spec without paying a lot more. A HD player isn't a little more. Unless you mean €100 is a little?

Actually, prive per GB, a HD MP3 player is cheaper. A H120 (20GB) is €300
A HiMD player costs €170 plus 20 1GB HiMD discs cost (at €8 each) €160, for a total of €330.

A 40GB model works out at even better value.

Flash players can't record at the same quality, or have the same options or have the same capacity as cheap.

That is not true, the iRiver players can record to WAV which is exactly the same as HiMD's PCM (16bits/44.1khz, i.e. CD format) format. Also HiMD can also only record at 256kbps ("Hi-SP") and 64kbps ("Hi-LP"), which is a lot less flexible then the iRivers ability to record between 40kbps up to 320kbps, with 11 increments in between, in MP3.

Also, I typically do most of my recording on PC using MP3 VBR (EAC + Lame using -alt-standard option) which on average creates MP3's at around 192kbps that sound exactly the same as the original CD.

Incidentally I don't have HiMD. Would consider if it was cheap enough. Aound €100 would be ok. In the meanwhile a €50 MD is an cheap way for me to record meetings, gigs, sessions etc. I've a couple of them. If I leave it on the bus or stand on it in a pub, so what. Drop your iRiver in a pint and down a stairs and see how happy you are!

If I lost or broke my iRiver I would run out and buy a new one, couldn't live without it, in fact I'm already thinking of getting a new one.

MD is a dead format, I expect Sony will discontinue it soon, now that they are starting to take MP3 serious.

RicardoSmith

bk wrote:

Actually, prive per GB, a HD MP3 player is cheaper.

Per GB maybe. But its still more expensive to buy. Anyone who can't afford 300-400 on a HD player isn't going to buy 20 HiMD disks are they? At the price point a HiMD gives you a lot of functionality.

bk wrote:

That is not true, the iRiver players can record to WAV which is exactly the same as HiMD's PCM (16bits/44.1khz, i.e. CD format) format. Also HiMD can also only record at 256kbps ("Hi-SP") and 64kbps ("Hi-LP"), which is a lot less flexible then the iRivers ability to record between 40kbps up to 320kbps, with 11 increments in between, in MP3.
.

Didn't know the iRiver Flash players could do Wav. So fair enough HiMD can do PCM, HiSP, HiLP on the HiMD disks and SP, LP2 and LP4 on the older disks. Most people only use about 4 settings, best quality, CD Quality, Best compromise and low quality. haven't great things about the SQ from flash players in general. But thats a different discussion.

bk wrote:

If I lost or broke my iRiver I would run out and buy a new one, couldn't live without it, in fact I'm already thinking of getting a new one.

Not everyone can afford that. Or is willing to pay the high price.

bk wrote:

MD is a dead format, I expect Sony will discontinue it soon, now that they are starting to take MP3 serious.

Rumours are next players will have 2GB disks, USB2 and MP3 support. Personally I think its unlikely. But then Sony have other products that now do support MP3. All of this doesn't change the fact that some people still use them and find them useful. Regardless of the disadvantages.

I've always picked up MD cheap 2nd hand and you usually get a bunch of disks thrown in with them. I've never paid more than €50 for a MD and have about 30-40 disks, all of which came free with with the units.

Incidentally you can pick up a HiMD 600 on Amazon for €140. Not sure if you get caught for tax and import duty though.

Bri

To drag this discussion further away from bargain hunting...

I have both. An iPod and a trusty MD. Apart from the battery debate, etc. I find a few things very useful about my MDs:
A bit like DJing with vinyl, I like being able to physically sort through my collection. I have a serious fear of losing everything on my iPod compared to my MDs - the majority of which stay safely at home. In the same vein, many a time I've sat down on the bus and switched on the iPod and pressed the buttons too quick or something similar and like any computer it screws up, often leaving a rebooted player that doesn't work properly until I get home again. Basically, IMO, there's a benefit to tangible goods (others may see this as a downside). I find myself waiting for the next range of Hi-MDs with hopefully a bit more decisiveness from Sony. I'm not sure if I see them dropping MD altogether as they are quite stubborn and there's presumably a specialist market out there - Journalists and audiophiles and me?! I guess I also find MD preferable (at the moment anyway) as I've accumulated a much larger collection than most home users and have bought equipment to match. Only 1 of my players (portable, car and home deck) has ever broken - touch wood. I like the robustness. Although I'm aware that Sony made newer models from cheaper material.

I also prefer the actual quality element. If I transfer to an MD I still do it by optical cable - a perfect recording every time with no gaps in mixes and track marks added. Playing long battery-hogging mixes with no divisions doesn't appeal at all. Or am I missing another option?

I have to admit I've ignored most of the mp3 player debates. I bought my iPod 2 summers ago hence the battery being so poor. I never really considered buying a replacement for a few more years (it still works but I don't like that possible failure at the start of a trip) especially as so many people here are firmly rooted in 1 player's camp and determined to stay there. But the iRiver does sound consistently top of the range. If I had the cash I'd buy one of each.

Also a word of warning to those looking at Hi-MD...the top of the range model (forget the code -NH1 perhaps?-) has a terrible battery life compared to the NH900 downwards...

RicardoSmith

The iPod leaves me cold TBH. The iRiver HD players I'd love. But they are too much money. I've been through so many Cassette Walkman and CD Walkman's over the years. But the MD seem to survive anything. Sony has constantly screwed the format over though. Its only a niche product now.

savemejebus

With my old MD player running and jogging (shocks) is no problem, is this the same with the Hi-MD, cos this is one of the MDs selling points for me as i'd imagine that running with a hdd based music player is still a no no.

bk

Bri wrote:

I have a serious fear of losing everything on my iPod compared to my MDs - the majority of which stay safely at home.

Why not just keep a copy of all your MP3's on a computer or burn them to a CD/DVD?

savemejebus wrote:

With my old MD player running and jogging (shocks) is no problem, is this the same with the Hi-MD, cos this is one of the MDs selling points for me as i'd imagine that running with a hdd based music player is still a no no.

Many people jog with HD players and I have never heard of any problems. The HD is specifically designed for portable devices and they usually have a large buffer memory. However I do understand your fear, I have the same fear myself and used to even have the same fear with my old MD's.

RicardoSmith wrote:

I've been through so many Cassette Walkman and CD Walkman's over the years. But the MD seem to survive anything.

I couldn't agree more, my MD players lasted years, despite been bashed around alot. (On the other hand my mate went through 4 MD players in just two years, he can bloddy break anything!).

RicardoSmith wrote:

Sony has constantly screwed the format over though. Its only a niche product now.

This has always been my biggest disatisfaction with MD. IMHO Sony have always held it back, by not allowing it to do what it could and with crappy DRM, software and proprietary interfaces and with a continuosly changing format.

The thing is I was always a massive fan of MD. I only moved over to MP3 about 9 months ago, but having done that I have no regrets. Yes MP3 might be more expensive initially, I originally had grave reservations about paying €450 for a music player, but having taken the jump I now realise it was worth every penny, it is so much more convenient, user friendly and sounds much better.

That is not to say the MD is bad, just that I think things have moved on.

BTW if any of you MD owners do decide to make the jump to MP3, then get a iRiver (or maybe a Cowon iAudio) rather then a iPod, the features of an iRiver are much more similiar to the features you are used to on a MD.

eclectichoney

I have an iriver and love it but i still have my old sony (pre net MD!) MZR700 that works perfect and i'd never ever sell it. its a little gema nd great for travelling, use in the gym etc. even without HIMD MD plaayers are still handy and for the money beat any discman etc. they aren't mutually exclusive y'know.

p.s. to get back on topic, good prices there ricardo, even with an mp3 player if i didn't already have my old skool md, i'd consider a HiMD for messing round with for the €160.

Bri

Indeed 160 is all good for that sort of scope. It even works as a data transfer (although apparantly permantley burns data to the MD?)

My MD portable is pre-Net MD and I'm so attached to it including all the bumps! As said above the two arn't mutually exclusive if you can get a cheap MD player for travel, etc. it can save the stress and now with Hi-MD that's very do-able.

bk: I have taken the time to back it all up on 2 seperate HDs and also on CD. It's still a chore to backup new stuff on CD and I have quite a bit...I use vinyl so end up with an array of formats which takes ages to copy across from Viny (decks) -> mp3 (portable/laptop) -> CD (Backup/Hi-Fi) -> MD (Car/Portable)! It's a bit of a joke it's just kinda what happened during the course of a few years.

No-one mentioned a solution to listening to mixes? mp3 just doesn't have the capacity to mark tracks without a gap unlike MD...right?

Also has anyone used these - http://www.archos.com/products/prw_500637.html?

Edit: Just found a scrap of paper I made about 4 months ago looking for an MZNH900 (2nd best Hi-MD) - before the dollar slump it was available for 200eu(ish) via the US. Obviously there's customs and the hassle of converting the charger (expensive).
Also to note that the 900 model above has a removable battery that's between 10-20eu to buy a slot-in replacement in a Sony Store...which means it's even cheaper online. Comparing that to an iPod that rocks. No idea about the rest of them.

Finally - which Xtravision? The Xtravision shops like in Baggot St. or any ol' one?

Bri

Back to the original topic:

http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-NH600D.html
http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-NH700.html
for full spec.
Also mentions Sony making a 'virtual company' to deal with Sonicstage. Bout time.

I had a look there online (and looked in person a while back). Am I right in saying that:
The 1st line of players are pretty light but are therefore made of cheap material unlike the ol' trusty MD players? I'd rather have some weight over a damaged player.

They're all USB1 which is kinda crap considering. Maybe waiting for a newer line of products would be better?

If you have the patience to use Sonicstage you have to convert...Now here's something I was never too clear on - if you mp3 is a compression of the original CD, and MDs are based on their own ATRAC compression...does that mean every existing mp3 you have ripped will be FURTHER compressed - making it way below acceptable levels? If not could someone explain that to me? And even though Sony released firmware for their HD players to use mp3 it's not going to happen to any future or existing Hi-MDs because their founded on a different format?

Thanks.

John R

RicardoSmith wrote:

"...many models are unlistenable in anything over silence..." How is anyone going to take that seriously. :rolleyes:

The actual facts....

The actual facts are that several MD units I have tried have an unacceptably low max volume that are almost completely drowned out by street background noise.

All I said was that anyone considering buying one should try it out first in particular looking for that possible shortcoming.

I wish someone had informed me of that fact before I bought a Net-MD unit that is virtually useless for playback.

John R

Bri wrote:

Back to the original topic:
If you have the patience to use Sonicstage you have to convert...Now here's something I was never too clear on - if you mp3 is a compression of the original CD, and MDs are based on their own ATRAC compression...does that mean every existing mp3 you have ripped will be FURTHER compressed - making it way below acceptable levels? If not could someone explain that to me? And even though Sony released firmware for their HD players to use mp3 it's not going to happen to any future or existing Hi-MDs because their founded on a different format?

Yes it means every single mp3 has to be recompressed, how much that degrades the sound quality is open to question but you can be certain it doesn't improve the sound. And no, it is unlikely sony will ever allow mp3 support for MD players, technically it would not be a big problem but it would go against sonys protectionist policies.

bk

Bri wrote:

No-one mentioned a solution to listening to mixes? mp3 just doesn't have the capacity to mark tracks without a gap unlike MD...right?

AFAIK Rio MP3 players can do gapless playback. iRiver can't yet, despite being promised for over a year by way of a firmware upgrade

Bri wrote:

If you have the patience to use Sonicstage you have to convert...Now here's something I was never too clear on - if you mp3 is a compression of the original CD, and MDs are based on their own ATRAC compression...does that mean every existing mp3 you have ripped will be FURTHER compressed - making it way below acceptable levels? If not could someone explain that to me? And even though Sony released firmware for their HD players to use mp3 it's not going to happen to any future or existing Hi-MDs because their founded on a different format?

Both ATRAC and MP3 are lossy formats, that means when you compress them, they throw away audio information that can't be retrieved later. So when you convert a MP3 to ATRAC (or vice versa), it takes an already compressed file and trys to change to a different compression formats using a different compression algorithm.

This leads to a further degradation in sound quality. If you can, when you get a new CD, convert it to both MP3 and ATRAC, don't try converting between them unless you have no other options.

If you buy or get most of your music off the internet in either MP3 or WMA formats, rather then CD's, then you would be better off with a MP3 palyer, it will sound much better then trying to convert to ATRAC.

Bri

Thanks for the info. Am I right in saying that CD -> ATRAC removes only the inaudible levels of recording (shown by the size of the mini-CD in the MD?).

I have another gripe with mp3 players. Considering the startup cost, they don't strike me as remarkably future compatible. Well I presume even if they are, no company in their right mind is gonna release firmware to update their old products to whatever format takes off in the next few years, while their new expensive models sit on the shelf?
I remember chosing MD on the basis that everything will remain available on CD for many years to come and anything not on CD can get put on it - and then onto a MD with the proper track divisions and silences. Considering it's obvious how limited mp3 is I couldn't see myself paying a few hunderd for an inferior format that will presumably get overtaken? (Although I did so a year or 2 back due to my foolish notions).
I know you can revert all back to mp3 but somehow the former idea of MD durability seems more convincing to me, even if it remains a niche I don't see it disappearing completely. Although I'm prepared to accept my views as slightly biased

John R: Could you explain why it's possible for sony to support MD + mp3 together. If it was why would they never do it? I'm aware of their mind-numbing ways but they caved on the HD player mp3 support relatively quickly no?

What I need is Sony to release that HD player with a MD Deck built in an super battery life!

RicardoSmith

Sigh...

Sony's idea was to prevent people from sharing or distributing illegally copied music. The reason being that Sony is a music publisher AND a hardware company. So the idea is people will be enncoding their own CD's and not transcoding from someone else MP3's to ATRAC. Which apart from being illegal, hurts the sound quality. Though it doesn't sound as bad as you might think apparently. The reason they now have the functionality is for people who already have their own music ripped to MP3.

However these days theres so many ways around it, and its hurting the sales of their music equipment that they are adding MP3 playback to a lot of their equipment. Their portable CD players for example, which for ages were ATRAC only and their HD players. Sonys software is the only means to get music on and off these players. So it controls how you download and upload music to the player. It also controls the ATRAC files you have created. Again its all to stop you distributing music.

ATRAC is smaller (for the same quality) and uses less energy to playback than MP3. But Sony control the format so a bit like BetaMax so nearly everyone has gone with MP3 instead. Nearly all formats lose some of the original recording. Even CD does this, which is why there are now better than CD quality formats like DVD-A and SACD. So all formats are a compromise in some form or other.

The reason the volume is limited is to protect your ears. I'll tell you why this is might be a good idea in 20 yrs or so. Assuming you can still hear me. I'm curious how you suggest people try a MD on a noisy street without buying it? The units I have much the same volume level as any of the CD portables and cassette walkman I have had. None of them are NetMD or HiMD units though. That said I have found decent earphones make a huge difference.

If you just want an MP3 player its obvious there are better devices than a MD. However lots of people like the sound of MD's and recording options they give you. They also like the form factor, the use of disks, and long battery life, and the option not to use a computer. They are not for everyone. MD has been around for years, its never taken off as a playback only format. But has a niche market. Wihout question Sony has done the format more harm than good over the years. But despite their best efforts its still here.

Theres new HiMD units expected to be announced this year. Who knows when we'll see them in the shops.

RicardoSmith

John R wrote:

....
I wish someone had informed me of that fact before I bought a Net-MD unit that is virtually useless for playback.

Do you fancy selling it on then?

commited

I have a Minidisc separate from about 1999 and had a trusty portable both from sony.
The Portable survived countless drops, 2 beer spillages and only died after being submerged in beer at a very drunken time!
I very nearly bought the 600 Hi-MD in the UK for £100.
considering i have over 5500 mp3s, it wouldnt be very financially sound if i wanted to carry them all around - but i generally wouldnt need to carry around more than a few albums, so 1GB is perfect.
I mean the mini IPOD makes no financial sense but loads of people are buying them

Bri

RicardoSmith wrote:

However these days theres so many ways around it, and its hurting the sales of their music equipment that they are adding MP3 playback to a lot of their equipment. Their portable CD players for example, which for ages were ATRAC only and their HD players. Sonys software is the only means to get music on and off these players. So it controls how you download and upload music to the player. It also controls the ATRAC files you have created. Again its all to stop you distributing music.

Still not clear why this excludes MD while CD and HDD players get an update?

RicardoSmith

Bri wrote:

Still not clear why this excludes MD while CD and HDD players get an update?

No one said it made sense. Its just the way it is.

Bri

Riiighhht. Fair enough if it doesn't happen but none of us can definatley project what will happen if there's no strict argument against MDs given Sony's slow turn-around.

I'll just bide my time!

RicardoSmith

My 2 cents.

If you have the money then HD player that can record like the iRiver makes more sense. If you don't have the money then the cheaper HiMD is viable alternative to a Flash memory device. However the more expensive HiMD models don't make economic sense as they are the same price as HD players.

Thats my thinking anyway.

If Sony remove the DRM problems, allow drag and drop and playback of MP3 and Atrac so you don't need their software, make it USB2 and drop the price then it might survive. If they don't do that then the format will die pretty quickly. The market has moved on and Sony hasn't. Historically Sony hasn't done enough for the format, and I don't think they will this time either.

Anyway €169 for the HIMD unit and HIMD 1GB @ €8 disks is still a decent deal compared to Flash players. Especially if you want to do some recording using the line in. Once you start paying €250+ you might as well pay a few euro more and get a HD MP3 player. They are all about €280-350+.

bk

Bri wrote:

I have another gripe with mp3 players. Considering the startup cost, they don't strike me as remarkably future compatible. Well I presume even if they are, no company in their right mind is gonna release firmware to update their old products to whatever format takes off in the next few years, while their new expensive models sit on the shelf?

iRiver do actually release firmware upgrades that do add new formats, for instance they released a firmware upgrade that added the OGG Vorbis format to all their flash playes. The iRiver supports MP3, OGG, WMA and WAV, which is pretty much most of the major formats excluding AAC (iPod).

Also their is currently an open source firmware currently being developed for the HDD iRiver players, this could potentially support any format (the only problem is licensing).

Anyway I don't expect any major new formats to take off in the next five years. MP3 will likely continue to be the favoured format for the next few years.

MP3 is by far the most future compatible format. It is supported on just about every single digital music playing device (except Sony), iPods, iRiver, Creative, CD players, DVD players, modern car stereos, the one thing that they all have in common is that they play MP3.

The newer formats like WMA and OGG claim to be better because they claim to be able to make smaller files then MP3 with the same audio quality.
However this is often not true (for instance, WMA's claim to be CD quality at 64kbps is just ridiculous). But more importantly, these formats are less future compatible, you won't be able to play OGG and WMA on iPods or DVD players and likewise you can't play ACC on anything but iPods.

File size matters on flash players, it doesn't matter on HDD players, I encode all my music in MP3 at 192kbps, this doesn't give the smallest files possible, but it does give me perfect CD sound quality, which is all that is important to me. I still manages to fit thousands of tracks at this quality on my iRiver. In fact it would literally take me 6 days with no sleep to listen to every track just once :eek:

What I'm saying is that MP3 is future compatible, not because it is the best, but because it is good enough and the vast majority of people use it.

John R

The best is not any indicator of what format will be successful, just look at VHS, it was not the best available when it was in its infancy and still managed to dominate for 20 years plus.
DVD is the same, by the time DVD video players became popular MPEG2 encoding was old hat and there were much better formats but because it had been building momentum for several years it stuck and is going to be the dominant home video format for a long time.

mp3 is the same, ogg and wma are better compression engines but mp3 is so much more popular it has become the standard. Along with the reduction in costs in larger storage across all storage formats there is not a desperate need to switch to a slightly more compact compression format so there is no real demand for a replacement for mp3.


If Sony had been more open with the licencing and use of MD and ATRAC compression 10 years ago it is entirely possible that both the disk and compression formats would now be widely used in home audio and computing. ATRAC was a useable compression format before mp3 was ever heard of and the disks were hheap and reliable when floppy disks and expensive zip disks were the only option for PC users, if it had been properly developed as an unrestricted data storage product mini-disks could very likely have been the replacement for FDDs back when 150GB removable media would have been highly sought after. It would have been possible with minimal adjustment from the MD-audio format as MD was always a non-linear packet writing format.
The technology itself has proven to be very reliable and durable, 10 year old disks and players are still going strong now without any problems. I am just thinking of all the money spent on slow and very expensive (and as it turns out unreliable) 100MB ZIP disks and drives when Data MDs could have been available for 10% of the price. Unfortunately Sonys greed stifled the development of the format and it is now way too late to rescue it as anything but a niche oddity.

RicardoSmith

Is all so sad...

RicardoSmith

Actually the 600s is €159 now. Ummm worth it or not? Had a look at the iRiver HD players. Very heavy and bigger than I expected. But having USB 20GB would be v.handy. Also at 299, 322 and 379 they are a lot more expensive.