Kid arrested for drawing

TwoShedsJackson

http://www.sptimes.com/News/051101/TampaBay/Student_removed_from_.shtml

Yes, a kid was arrested, handcuffed and basically suspended for the rest of the year for drawing guns in class.

I particularly like the quote from the principal:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"The children were in no danger at all. It involved no real weapons."
</font>

That is basically mad - I'd have been hung long ago if what I drew as an 11 year old kid was anything to go by

Canaboid

Speechless....

gandalf

Yep the good old Facist States of America !!!

Makes you wonder about all the huffing and puffing they do about freedom of speech when they do stuff like this.

Gandalf.

Megatron

wow !!! talk about ott !!!

It makes me sick persoanly. now jids pretending to paly guns and them getting expeled is very extreme but this ... wha'ts next a kid getting sued because he drew a bad picture of the teacher ( gave here goofy teeth ???)

ahh have the country ... lets all cut it from the earth and then put a big rocket booster under it and fire it into space !!!!

Of course i'd have to save Minne Driver !!! mmmmmmm

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No !!!!! I will crush you with my Bare hands.
P.S. Avator fromerly know as Gamblor !!

Magwitch

Dammit...This persky kids should be lined up against a wall and SHOT with paper bullets!

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Keep your powder dry and your pants moist

RopeDrink

Thats just plain sick...

I used to spend a lot of time drawing pictures of death in general, along with corpses, zombies and some children of my imagination (Mainly horrifying monsters and creatures to be used in my upcoming novel...)

Maybe they would arrest me as a "Devil-Worshipper" or a Cultist...

Heck, if I threw in a nice sketch of a 12 guage Bennelli M3 Combat Shotgun, I'd possibly get life imprisonment...

Seriously, that is plain pathetic... Considering that Guns, violence, sex and strong obscenities are on Television every day, why dont they try arresting Television Companies, rather than scare the living poo-brick's out of a poor kid who "DREW" a gun... Jesus Mary and Saint Anthony... No Offence but the American's are truly a strange race...

SHADOW

that is ridiculous....

Evil Phil

They elect a war monger and then arrest kids for drawing guns. WTF?!

When I was in school I drew little animations of planes and spaceships getting blown up on the pages of my books.

Belisarius

I am speechless . Truly words escape me

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Shrewgar!

frood4t2

I hate my country it is ****. Anyone wanna let me move in over there?

Anyway... In fifth grade we drew torture chambers and no one cared less. Today I could draw it and get sent to a mental ward. Wow my country is silly.

frood4t2

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frood4t2
3stooges@mags.net

Karl Hungus

I am just sickened...

I used to draw guns all the time when I was younger...

Went through a fase of Action Movies, and I always used to draw them out.
Aliens being one in particular.
Or Terminator.

Used to draw all that stuff...

Rope saw my Mortal Kombat drawings.
And I never got expeled for them, I actualy showed them to my teachers, and they liked them, and that was that...

RopeDrink

Hah - I remember that day - We both brought our drawings into school, because they requested to see them... Angel brought his Mortal Kombat piccies, and I brought in my big red folder full of skull's, skeletons, monsters and gore infested pics... Funny thing was, it was the religion class that wanted to see it - see really loved my pictures

boddah

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The boy was handcuffed by campus police for his safety and not because the student was violent or out of control, said school district spokesman Ron Stone.
</font>

i fail to see the logic in this... he wasn't being violent... how can handcuffs protect you?
could someone please explain?

azezil

OMG!! handcuff's on an 11 yr old for drawin pictures!

thats takein it too far, hell if they ever seen the stuff i used to draw! tanks guns knives headless corpses etc... i woulda got the chair!

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"just because ur not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after u!"

Hobbes

They were probably upset because he was able to sneak his gun past the metal detectors.

Catch_22

"We just need to get it through kids' heads that there are certain things you don't say and there are certain things you don't draw,"

Now what was that first amendment thing again ?

btw: anyone whats the syntax for the quotes others are using here ??

Megatron

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hobbes:
They were probably upset because he was able to sneak his gun past the metal detectors. </font>

LHAO !!!!!! he he .... that was brilliant !!

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No !!!!! I will crush you with my Bare hands.
P.S. Avator fromerly know as Gamblor !!

smoke.me.a.kipper

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Canaboid:
Speechless....</font>

thats it.

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- Ciaran

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"
-Nietzsche</font>

Paranoid Android

I made a gun out of clay in art class when i was really young, no one thought any thing of it. In fact the teacher was somewhat impressed that I had managed to make a trigger for it as well.

Hmm perhaps I was onto some thing, ceramic guns. They can make it past metal detectors.

I'll turn myself in.

Junior

From the article

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
"All I can tell you is it was a threat . . . against students," he said. "Nobody in particular, but students in general."
</font>

emm how .. what he was going to batter them over the head with an A4 pad ??

Stephen

Utter insanity.
I've drawn far worse stuff than that on my schoolbooks over the years and never been in any trouble...

Even recently, someone in my art class (leaving cert) did a full A2 charicature of "Mister D1ckFace Ar$eHead" - You can imagine the content yourself. The teacher couldn't stop herself from laughing at it as she "confiscated" it

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- Munch

[IAR]Nevermind

yeh but with all the shootings and stuff in schools in america i think there gettin mad strict but thats bull

Victor

I think the point was (and believe me they did not get it across very well, in one of the worst bit of sound-bite reporting I have ever seen) that the picture was part of a threat to others students (with a gun - not the picture).

Stupid journalists!

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Changing call sign to SIERRA PAPA OSCAR OSCAR FOXTROT.

[This message has been edited by Victor (edited 17-05-2001).]

Magwitch

I think what has been missed is something which is going to become increasingly common.

That is the status and still growing popularity of psychology that has come with the decline of organised religion. It has almost entirely replaced religion in the minds of many Americans providing absolution form guilt, self confidence and a feeling of belonging (theropy groups). All this except its rules are "flexible" and apparently indiviadual.

However this "new religion" is in fact a thought police enforcing correct behaviour when applied to the greater public and in itself being both the method of crimianl thought detection and tool of legal conviction not to mention setting the rules in the first place.

The kid broke the rules and paid the price.

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Keep your powder dry and your pants moist

Bob the Unlucky Octopus

I think we're missing an important point here...and that is that what the kid did (innocently or not, we'll never know) is very much against the law. If I happened to pen a threatening note to someone, announcing my intention to murder them in cold blood, and drew a picture of a gun (however cartoony), I would be arrested for affray and battery (and rightly so).

Whether a child should be subjected to adult law is ultimately open to debate. The Bulgin murderers are a perfect example- the CPS thought they should be tried as adults and they were convicted as such- the ECHR then overturned the decision (that was the correct decision imo- the facts of the case do NOT warrant a custodial sentence, kid OR adult).

However, in a nation where the possession of firearms is a valid way of life in many states (not mine thank God)- we need to ask ourselves this question. View the same issue with hindsight. If the Columbine perpetrators would have had their favorite website material banned by the host-server, then it is likely they would never have secured the contacts to comit that dastardly act, nor spread the word about its success.

Bearing in mind the problems faced by Florida (and indeed most of the South save Texas) with regard to gun control, I fear what has been done is the only viable solution

Sending a clear and unambiguous statement to the child and the community he lives in by a formal arrest if not charges...will probably save lives in the long run. It's extreme certainly, under any branch of the penal code to apply strict penalties to children- but when children younger than this one have murdered classmates not 2 hours drive away from this school? I understand the authorities' position even if I don't condone it.

It's a mistake to think George W. is pro-guns just because he comes from Texas...his public policy so far indicates a willingness to tackle the situation head-on, even risk isolation from the powerful gun-lobbies. If successful, it might be the first(and possibly last) positive achievement of his as President.

Just to remind us all- none of us have SEEN the drawing in question- until a copy is released for public viewing- we can't make judgments from afar about another communities problems calling them barbaric and unjust (no matter how tempting it is to do so).

That's my 2 cents (/me ducks to avoid the flames surely coming his way)

Bob the Unlucky Octopus
=Errare Humanum Est=

TwoShedsJackson

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bob the Unlucky Octopus:
I think we're missing an important point here...and that is that what the kid did (innocently or not, we'll never know) is very much against the law. If I happened to pen a threatening note to someone, announcing my intention to murder them in cold blood, and drew a picture of a gun (however cartoony), I would be arrested for affray and battery (and rightly so).
</font>

I have to totally disagree with you there Bob. Is it actually against the law in the States to draw a picture of gun?

The kid did not write a threatening note, he was messing about as kids do, you know, putting his imagination on paper. The situation you describe in which you as an adult might be arrested does not seem to apply to this child.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">If the Columbine perpetrators would have had their favorite website material banned by the host-server, then it is likely they would never have secured the contacts to comit that dastardly act, nor spread the word about its success.
</font>

How could this material have been banned in advance, clearly the Columbine perpetrators wouldn't want it banned, and it's unlikely that anyone else could have forseen what it may or may not have caused them to do.

Based on your previous posts on this board Bob, I must say I'm surprised you take the position you do on this subject.

Magwitch

Though kids are siad to mature earlier these days he was only 11. Arrest is too harsh a penalty. The kid will be scarred for the rest of his life no matter what happens from now on.

Further to that I would also amend that if America is to try juniors as adults in court, what you do as an 11 year old will haunt you for the rest of your life. That is a terrible thing.

Are we to see the creation of yet another under-class in society? Considering that laws today try to level the playing field for the more "dense" in our ranks it is the imaginitive and creative that will suffer. Was the kid for instance excercising an artist talent to, at his young age, articulate something of the gun culture all around him?

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Keep your powder dry and your pants moist

Bob the Unlucky Octopus

No Castor it is not illegal for anyone, kid or adult to draw a gun in the US (nor anywhere else as far as I am aware). However, threatening behavior- threats of assault, affray, battery and injury- those are serious issues Castor. You say he is simply messing about- well that's what the close friends of the Columbine perp's and the Serrentville murderer's friends said- "I didn't think he would do it, thought he was just messing around."

If you actually read my post carefully, I do not condone what was done- but given that

a) The school authorities know this kid...and we don't- the principal made the decision to transfer the pupil after a long talk with the school psycologist- that tells me something..., and

b) There is more than enough cause for concern given Tampa Bay's history of illegal gun-running, and other gun-control issues;

I feel in light of this (and the fact that none of us have seen the nature of what was drawn) perhaps we should reserve judgement, that's all. It's a bit premature to claim that the authorities had no cause to do what they did when we don't even know why they did it. Some kids mess around...others are serious- deadly serious.

This is the situation the state governor has to deal with long after we stop posting in this thread Castor. Let's try to see it from his point of view too- from his point of view, a modicum of law and order must be maintained. What would you have him do? Reading the preliminary medical reports published by the state coroner's office, I find that the child is socially and mentally unbalanced- furthermore he seems to have motive (bullying) and means (a .38 in his dad's study- he apparently even drew where it was). Now I haven't seen the drawing...but looking at it from a legal/political point of view? It's a crisis waiting to happen. The authorities acted in a paranoid fashion- no doubt about that...I'm not saying they were right- but can you blame them? It's not enough now that they have to keep an eye out for drug lords, Cuban refugees, street crime and irate tourists- now they have to start watching schools as well?

As far as scarring an 11 year-old kid goes Magwitch...I see where you're coming from- but to the authorities it's all about opportunity cost- they have to see it that way to do their job- better one emotionally scarred kid shocked out of violence, than an enraged child let loose on a school with a semi-automatic. Simplistic, but that's how police officers think- in terms of adult reason and possibility.

On the subject of trying juveniles as adults for adult offenses- the practise takes place all over Europe, mostly in Britain, Ireland and Germany. If premeditation can be demonstrated to the court, I have no problem with juveniles being tried as adults...unfortunately, the standard of proof is far lower than that in this type of case.

In any eventuality- my only point is that if people had been slightly more vigilant- Columbine might never have happened. Forget the web content for a minute- none of the perps' friends came forward with what is now regarded to be vital information. This is majorly ott- but it is understandable even if it can't be condoned. I don't support what they did, but I'm at least asking people to reconsider their extreme views- at least until we actually see in visual detail what it is he drew. Without seeing that, we can only draw guesses from the Forensic examiner and by looking at the school's psych profiles. Until those all become public domain, I think we should moderate the tone of this discussion...is that so much to ask?

Bob the Unlucky Octopus
=Vade Retro=

Karl Hungus

I'd kinda disagree aswell there Bob...

No matter how you look at it, everyone here is speculating.
While you are basicaly speculating on a worst case scenario.

The information given on the site, is enough for me to get a rough idea of total over-reaction.
Which is quite understandable, and totaly probable with Columbine in mind, which is something the teachers had in mind too.
This hints to me over-reaction.

As for the picture, it just says he drew a gun.

This is what the Princable said: "It's nothing unusual and we address them all seriously because, of course, we don't know,"

This to me, still points out over-reaction.

Bob the Unlucky Octopus

Point taken Angel- there is still a lot we don't know though.

To get it on the record again...I fully agree that they overreacted massively. There's no way of knowing whether a child has the poise or composure to act on a threat he made in a school drawing- but to automatically assume that he will, no matter Columbine et. al that's a MASSIVE overreaction.

But from the point of view of the authorities- they're screwed whatever they do...If they had let it go- liberals all over the country would be screaming about tolerance of gun culture, and the government's failure to keep Florida's gun-happy populace under control. Do what they've done (the only other realistic policy choice) and they STILL get hammered by the liberals (this time bl33ting about the child's rights).

It's certainly not a topic we can directly discuss with any degree of conviction- not yet. When it goes to a pre-trial hearing ore even a full trial- then I'll have my knives sharpened and ready

Bob the Unlucky Octopus
=Veritas Veritas Veritas=

Shiminay

It's an extreme over-reaction (I don't think anyone is arguing this case), but I'm inclined to agree with Bob here - these folks know this kid and will know if he does have any problems that may lead to dangerous behaviour.

I'm sure it's not a decision they came to lightly. Infact, I'd hate to be the goveror and try to decide the outcome on something like that.

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All the best!
Dav
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