Overclocking AMD

Archytas

I need help.... Im new to the modding/tweaking stuff but im fairly good at the electronics and computer stuff but I need help?

Im buildin a new sys at the minute.(I've questions all over this thread ) I need to know about overclockin... I've read a couple of things about the (939)AMD 3500+ and the (939)AMD 3200+? Bit of a price difference but apparently they're both o-clockable to 2.6GHz? This true? im buyin a pretty decent heatsink and fan setup so not so worried about overheating? Help please?

Thanks

Jammer

my s754 3200+ goes to 2.6GHZ on water...the new winchester chips look like they'll got a bit further on air then the newcastle but 2.6GHz from a 3200+ on air cooling is a bit ambitious!

Archytas

Would I be able to get it up to 2.4 or 5 maybe? Is it worth the effort to save €50?

Jammer

depends on the air flow in the case, as well has the heatsink/fan itself. If you had decent airflow and maybe the thermalight XP120 with a decent fan on it, you'd push 2.3/4

Archytas

Cool.. thanks for the help!

jessy

ya i'v heard that the 3200(i'm talking about the winchester core) will go to 2.6 on air. the 3200 and 3500 are made from the same waffer, the 3500 has just got less faults in it.

g5hn710m4xpdwy

Ya i dont think this should go hear but... I am asking to see how fast you can overclock the "AMD Sempron 2200+" to thanks if you can help me.

jessy

Flunked wrote:

Ya i dont think this should go hear but... I am asking to see how fast you can overclock the "AMD Sempron 2200+" to thanks if you can help me.

What Cooling are ya using?

Azza

Anandtech say they got to 2.62Ghz on air with a AMD 64 3000 and 3500 (whinchesters) using a Thermaltake Silent Boast K8 which is a fairly average heatskin. Think most people with winchesters averaged about 400mhz when they overclock. More headroom in those chip due to there lower stock voltage.

GazaM

Like the creator of this topic I'm new to overclocking, although I've got to grips with Graphics card overclocking I still have to learn about CPU and RAM overclocking. I am planning on building a new system mainly for gaming and was planning on buying an AMD 64 3500+ Winchester but now I'm thinking of going for a 3200+ and overclocking it to 3500+ performance. I was just wondering if anyone could post a link to a guide on overclocking the CPU and also how high of an overclock is possible with the heatsink that comes with the CPU in a case with very good airflow?

padraigf

try using google, please.
www.anandtech.com
www.hardocp.com
www.overclockers.com
www.ocia.net
www.overclock.net

Now that was easy wasnt it ? (although i did know some of them already)

gline

I think 2.6 on air is a bit ambitous, but hey u mite get lucky and get a really decent chip, sometimes its down to luck. Also need some good ram and a decent mobo, why not go for watercooling???? a cheap thermaltake kit would only set u back around €100 and i have used them , theyre not bad, easy to setup.

TacT

I wouldn't think 2.6 is an unreal expectation on air at all, especially considering I have mine sitting happily at 2.703Ghz currently with an xp-90. upped slightly for the extra second on superpi to 1M places

unstable

stable

that's odd, just realised the vcore isn't displayed. 2.7Vdimm and 1.52Vcore

GazaM

OK, while reading a review of the Athlon 64 3500+ in the section of overclocking I think I picked up on the basics of overclocking the CPU. Please tell me if I'm right or wrong; There's a CPU multiplier, which on Athlon 64's is at 11 from the start. This multiplied by the Front-Side-Bus (F.S.B.) is the CPU clock speed in MHz, so 11 x 200 = 2200MHz which is 2.2GHz. So to overclock all I need to do is higher the F.S.B. right? Also, will highering the F.S.B. have any affect on the RAM or anything else? I'm getting a s939 3200+ Winchester which is clocked at 2.0GHz by default and I'm hoping to get it up to 2.4GHz or so on air using the supplied heatsink and fan in a case with good airflow, is this a realistic speed? Could I go higher, maybe if I bought I good fan + heatsink?

gline

GazaM wrote:

OK, while reading a review of the Athlon 64 3500+ in the section of overclocking I think I picked up on the basics of overclocking the CPU. Please tell me if I'm right or wrong; There's a CPU multiplier, which on Athlon 64's is at 11 from the start. This multiplied by the Front-Side-Bus (F.S.B.) is the CPU clock speed in MHz, so 11 x 200 = 2200MHz which is 2.2GHz. So to overclock all I need to do is higher the F.S.B. right? Also, will highering the F.S.B. have any affect on the RAM or anything else? I'm getting a s939 3200+ Winchester which is clocked at 2.0GHz by default and I'm hoping to get it up to 2.4GHz or so on air using the supplied heatsink and fan in a case with good airflow, is this a realistic speed? Could I go higher, maybe if I bought I good fan + heatsink?

You will probably need a much better heatsink or a watercooler , and in short yes it does affect the ram, your ram will need to run higher than 400mhz if its pc3200

jessy

I would not be surprised if you got near 2.4 from a 2GHz chip with the Winchester core on standard air cooling.

The_Conductor

The AMD CPUs run bloody hot when overclocked.
Strongly recommend something other than stock cooling.

GazaM

gline wrote:

You will probably need a much better heatsink or a watercooler , and in short yes it does affect the ram, your ram will need to run higher than 400mhz if its pc3200

In what way does it affect the RAM?

TacT

you need to raise the ram frequency to overclock the cpu. I had mine clocked to 2.59Ghz on the stock cooler with good airflow in my case and it never went over 52C (more likely around 48C). It means, lowering your ram latency to achieve higher fsb speed. For example my ram is rated for 2-2-2-5 timings at ddr400 or fsb of 200. When I overclock I drop the timings to 2.5-3-3-10 and raise the fsb speed to 245x11 for 2.7Ghz or ddr490.

2.5Ghz is common place on the stock cooler. With regards the chips multipliers on the winchester cores - 3000+ = 9x200, 3200+ = 10x200 and 3500+ = 11x200.

Optikus

I think im going to go for the 3000+ winchester... i'll be using watercooling so i should be able to get an overclock as good as the the 3200 and 3500 for a lot less cheaper.

GazzaM if your using crap RAM and don't want to overclock it, change the divider to a different ratio or just up the CPU multiplier and leave the FSB, that way the RAM will not be affected.

TacT

I'd definitely consider getting the 3200+ instead to avail of the 10xmulti unless your ram can run 275Mhz+ fsb speed. Based on my own benching with different multi's I'd say steer clear of the 3000+ unless you're really, really strapped for the cash. Will be a lot less dissapointing if you get a lemon of a clocker too - why I went for the 3500+.

Optikus

TacT wrote:

I'd definitely consider getting the 3200+ instead to avail of the 10xmulti unless your ram can run 275Mhz+ fsb speed. Based on my own benching with different multi's I'd say steer clear of the 3000+ unless you're really, really strapped for the cash. Will be a lot less dissapointing if you get a lemon of a clocker too - why I went for the 3500+.

What are the results of your overclocks on the 3000+ Winchester BTW?

gline

Optikus wrote:

I think im going to go for the 3000+ winchester... i'll be using watercooling so i should be able to get an overclock as good as the the 3200 and 3500 for a lot less cheaper.

GazzaM if your using crap RAM and don't want to overclock it, change the divider to a different ratio or just up the CPU multiplier and leave the FSB, that way the RAM will not be affected.

Thought it was only fx chips where u can adjust the multiplier up, i thought the athlon 64's can only be adjust down (half unlocked), no???

Optikus

gline wrote:

Thought it was only fx chips where u can adjust the multiplier up, i thought the athlon 64's can only be adjust down (half unlocked), no???

My bad... sorry Gazza multi is locked on all AMD64's except the FX 55 and 53, so your gonna need better RAM if you want a high and stable overclock.

TacT

Optikus - I have the 3500+ winchester at 2.7Ghz -- see my post with pics halfway down this thread.
gline - correct, only the FX chips are fully multi-unlocked . Other cpu's are multi-unlocked downwards only sadly *dreams of what my 3500+ might clock like with free multiplier reign

Optikus

TacT wrote:

Optikus - I have the 3500+ winchester at 2.7Ghz -- see my post with pics halfway down this thread.
gline - correct, only the FX chips are fully multi-unlocked . Other cpu's are multi-unlocked downwards only sadly *dreams of what my 3500+ might clock like with free multiplier reign

Nice OC , wonder how much further it would go on watercooling.

GazaM

The RAM won't be crap, but it's not super low latency stuff with heatsinks and all that, it's just normal PC3200 RAM with a latency of 2.5, 3, 3, 8 or something like that. How do I know what DDR speed the RAM will be when upping the FSB, is it just double the FSB? As usually an FSB of 200MHz = DDR400 am I right? Sorry if this sounds confusing but I still don't fully understand it and I've been looking at some guides. Here's what I think so far, correct me if I'm wrong;

Athlon 64 3200+ Winchester is 2.0GHz, multiplier is locked at 10, so my only option to overclock is upping the FSB. Doing this will affect the RAM also (nForce4 motherboards lock the PCI/PCI-Express frequency right?). The FSB multiplied by the CPU multiplier is the CPU clock frequency, eg. 10 x 230MHz = CPU frequency of 2.3GHz. Double the FSB is the DDR frequency, eg. FSB 200MHz = DDR400. This is what I'm least sure of so please correct me if I'm wrong. Things like highering the voltage to the CPU and RAM can help increase overclock stability but the 3200+ should be capable of going to 2.3GHz on default voltage (1.4v I think), and upping the voltage can shorten the lifespan of components or even damage them if they get too hot. Can anybody tell me if I'm right or wrong, as I don't want to mess with the BIOS without knowing exactly what I'm doing.

Optikus

If your divider is set to a ratio of 1:1 when you up the FSB it will change the RAM aswell, so FSB of 200 and Ram at 200 (400 because of Double Data Rate). Any higher of an FSB at this ratio will be overclocking your RAM, uping the DRAM voltage will make it more stable if its overclocked as is the same when uping the Vcore voltage for FSB overclock.

gline

GazaM wrote:

The RAM won't be crap, but it's not super low latency stuff with heatsinks and all that, it's just normal PC3200 RAM with a latency of 2.5, 3, 3, 8 or something like that. How do I know what DDR speed the RAM will be when upping the FSB, is it just double the FSB? As usually an FSB of 200MHz = DDR400 am I right? Sorry if this sounds confusing but I still don't fully understand it and I've been looking at some guides. Here's what I think so far, correct me if I'm wrong;

Athlon 64 3200+ Winchester is 2.0GHz, multiplier is locked at 10, so my only option to overclock is upping the FSB. Doing this will affect the RAM also (nForce4 motherboards lock the PCI/PCI-Express frequency right?). The FSB multiplied by the CPU multiplier is the CPU clock frequency, eg. 10 x 230MHz = CPU frequency of 2.3GHz. Double the FSB is the DDR frequency, eg. FSB 200MHz = DDR400. This is what I'm least sure of so please correct me if I'm wrong. Things like highering the voltage to the CPU and RAM can help increase overclock stability but the 3200+ should be capable of going to 2.3GHz on default voltage (1.4v I think), and upping the voltage can shorten the lifespan of components or even damage them if they get too hot. Can anybody tell me if I'm right or wrong, as I don't want to mess with the BIOS without knowing exactly what I'm doing.

That is basically it, i wouldnt worry about uppin the vcore a small bit, wont shorten the life to anything noticeable (personally i dont think upping the vcore lots shortens the life to a worrying level, as u will likely upgrade before it burns out anyway.)

TacT

At a guess I'd say you might get something out of the ram with more volts at 3-4-4-10 timings and 2.7-2.85Vdimm. GazaM you're right there but don't forget that you can lower your multiplier freely and up the fsb speeds too and yes - DDR (double data rate = x2 fsb speed = ram speed)

You can also safely up the vcore to 1.5-1.6V depending on your cooling and temps

GazaM

gline wrote:

That is basically it, i wouldnt worry about uppin the vcore a small bit, wont shorten the life to anything noticeable (personally i dont think upping the vcore lots shortens the life to a worrying level, as u will likely upgrade before it burns out anyway.)

Thanks, I agree that it won't shorten the life of the components considerably anyway. Considering that yesterday morning I didn't have a clue where to start overclocking a CPU or RAM, I think I've made some good progress . The only thing I don't want to do is buy all of these new parts, overclock them too much and burn them out in a day. So for the first few weeks I'll probably just overclock it to a safe 2.3GHz until I have more time to run all of those tests and stuff to calculate the absolute max I can get out of the machine. By the way the RAM I'm planning on getting is this TwinMos Dual Channel kit , if any of you know how good this is please tell me. I've read some reviews on it and it get's high scores usually, although it's not enthusiast RAM like the flashy Crucial stuff with LED's and everything I think it will manage DDR460, won't it . :rolleyes:

TacT

Check out the range at www.shop4memory.com or www.pc-memory-upgrade.co.uk. Komplett stink for ram

_CreeD_

I fixed up a new system recently with an Abit AV8 3rdEye and 90nm Athlon64 3000. It overclocks to 2.178Ghz (Can go higher but one or 2 games eventually crash so this is highest absolutely stable speed for mine). Watercooled.
Anyway there are a few more settings you need to watch for.

1. As mentioned FSB. If you get a KT800 Pro or Nforce3+ board it should have an option to lock the FSB ratio. Do this as it will stop your overclocking also effecting the PCI/AGP speeds (big no no), basically it takes those buses out of the equation.
2. The Hypertransport speed. This is 1Ghz on the 939 systems, basically a 5x multiplier of your FSB by default. This is a major problem when overclocking via the FSB as this component is none too stable overclocked.
3. Ram speed. While you can choose the ram speed as 333Mhz or 400Mhz in the BIOS it is still dependant on your FSB. Setting it to specifically 333Mhz for example doesn't lock it at that speed it merely sets the ram at 2.5x(FSB/3) (400Mhz = 3x(FSB/3) ...ifnoreing the fact that RAM is rated at 2xFSB anyway (400Mhz ram is 200Mhz running in Double Data Rate mode)). Pedantic and confusing as this may seem it is important, and useful. It will allow you to set a higher FSB than your ram can handle, while keeping the ram itself within safe operating parameters by setting it to really run at 5/6 FSB instead of the full thing (Theoretically giving you a 16% or so greater margin to work with before you start pushing your ram over the edge).

Soooo. What I ended up doing:
1. Set FSB/AGP/PCI Ratio to Fixed.
2. Set the ram type to 333Mhz (It is 400Mhz)
3. Set the hypertransport to 4x instead of 5x multplier.
4. Increased the FSB to 242Mhz.
5. Slightly increased the voltages to the CPU/Ram/North & South bridges.

Results:
Ram speed: 396Mhz
Hypertransport: 968Mhz
CPU: 2.178Ghz

This left the Hypertransport and Ram operating very slightly below their rated speeds (to the point of not having any recordable impact on performance) but gave a very nice boost in cpu speed.

gline

_CreeD_ wrote:

I fixed up a new system recently with an Abit AV8 3rdEye and 90nm Athlon64 3000. It overclocks to 2.178Ghz (Can go higher but one or 2 games eventually crash so this is highest absolutely stable speed for mine). Watercooled.
Anyway there are a few more settings you need to watch for.

1. As mentioned FSB. If you get a KT800 Pro or Nforce3+ board it should have an option to lock the FSB ratio. Do this as it will stop your overclocking also effecting the PCI/AGP speeds (big no no), basically it takes those buses out of the equation.
2. The Hypertransport speed. This is 1Ghz on the 939 systems, basically a 5x multiplier of your FSB by default. This is a major problem when overclocking via the FSB as this component is none too stable overclocked.
3. Ram speed. While you can choose the ram speed as 333Mhz or 400Mhz in the BIOS it is still dependant on your FSB. Setting it to specifically 333Mhz for example doesn't lock it at that speed it merely sets the ram at 2.5x(FSB/3) (400Mhz = 3x(FSB/3) ...ifnoreing the fact that RAM is rated at 2xFSB anyway (400Mhz ram is 200Mhz running in Double Data Rate mode)). Pedantic and confusing as this may seem it is important, and useful. It will allow you to set a higher FSB than your ram can handle, while keeping the ram itself within safe operating parameters by setting it to really run at 5/6 FSB instead of the full thing (Theoretically giving you a 16% or so greater margin to work with before you start pushing your ram over the edge).

Soooo. What I ended up doing:
1. Set FSB/AGP/PCI Ratio to Fixed.
2. Set the ram type to 333Mhz (It is 400Mhz)
3. Set the hypertransport to 4x instead of 5x multplier.
4. Increased the FSB to 242Mhz.
5. Slightly increased the voltages to the CPU/Ram/North & South bridges.

Results:
Ram speed: 396Mhz
Hypertransport: 968Mhz
CPU: 2.178Ghz

This left the Hypertransport and Ram operating very slightly below their rated speeds (to the point of not having any recordable impact on performance) but gave a very nice boost in cpu speed.

Did you not try and see what the max speed of your ram was and just run the fsb near that??

Azza

Hmmm I've have a problem overclocking my 3200 Winchester on an Abit AV8 3rd Eye. I have tried 3 different graphics cards and got the same problem. I get a VPU recovery error and it switchs to software mode or something like and I have to restart my machine. Starting to suspect the AGP lock is not working.

For the life of my I can't find the hypertranport mutiplayer on that board either.
Might update the bios to 1.7 see if thaat helps.

_CreeD_

gline wrote:

Did you not try and see what the max speed of your ram was and just run the fsb near that??

It topped out around 220 or so. This way I got max. cpu speed with just a loss of 2Mhz ram speed. Also the north/south bridges have to be taken into account also and there seems to be no way to step their ratios down.

Azza on some BIOS' it's called "LDT Bus Frequency" and it is the most likely problem you're having. Here's a better idea of where to look http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA5MTk5NTk2MG53NE54WW54Q3JfM18yMF9sLmdpZg==

gline

Azza wrote:

Hmmm I've have a problem overclocking my 3200 Winchester on an Abit AV8 3rd Eye. I have tried 3 different graphics cards and got the same problem. I get a VPU recovery error and it switchs to software mode or something like and I have to restart my machine. Starting to suspect the AGP lock is not working.

For the life of my I can't find the hypertranport mutiplayer on that board either.
Might update the bios to 1.7 see if thaat helps.

What hapens if u just turn off VPU recover??

mrpsychology

Hello, I have a question, in regards to the overclock of the abit av8- 3rd eye, i have a 3200+ winchester. Now, i am not looking for a huge overclock by no means. But, whta settings would i have to have to run it at 2.2ghz and would i be able to keep it that way and not really notice a big difference when it comes to life span? I am not an avid gamer or anything. I have the stock heatsink fan. I have the 4 sticks of kingston ram pc3200. It ran good at 215/66/33 but got blue screen and restart on 220/66/33. I am running it now at 206/66/33.

TacT

First off, I have to play my card

Second off -- if you want to provide us with a breakdown of the settings in the bios then we could possibly guide you through them but I am not familiar with the board so wouldn't have a clue where to start.

google it

set the ram to 2.75Vdimm, 1.55Vcore on the cpu, agp frequency to 67mhz and drop the ram timings to 3-4-10-4 and push the htt some more. When it becomes unstable, drop it back a little and attempt to tighten your ram timings one by one to improve performance, blend in a mixer and serve hot 'n' toasty!