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M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works pending; 2024 start]

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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Tender out for technical advisory services for TII Phases 5-7 of this project

    Est value 10m.



  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Baldilocks


    Can please provide descriptions for the phase numbers? (ie; what is phase 5, phase 6, etc).

    Secondly, the duration is 108months - 9 years!!??



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    The phases are as follows:
    • Phase 1 Concept and Feasibility
    • Phase 2 Options Selection
    • Phase 3 Design and Environmental Evaluation
    • Phase 4 Statutory Processes, which includes An Bord Pleanála Oral Hearing
    • Phase 5 Enabling and Procurement
    • Phase 6 Construction and Implementation
    • Phase 7 Close out and Review

    I'm unclear where your figures (108months - 9years) originate or what your question is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Baldilocks


    Thanks for the description

    In the link, the contract duration is listed as 108months.

    Does that mean this project is 9 years from completion? (If so, that's appalling!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Not necessarily. It only means that if the job gets put out by a year or two for whatever reason, they don’t want to get a situation where the contract ends up expiring in the middle of works.

    Also, if there’s an operation or maintenance clause in the contract, the 9 years would include that period - the road could be open much earlier, but it wouldn’t be the government’s job to maintain it until nine years had passed from award of contract.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Baldilocks


    Parts of the Bloomfield Interchange are badly in need of being Re-surfaced, who is the responsible party? (TII?)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    TII road yep they'd work with Co Co on things like resurfacing. Worthwhile to contact your councillor.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    There’s an allocation for €810k for resurfacing of the N28 at “Carrs Hill” this year. Not sure if that’s been started yet someone in the area may confirm. It’s also not clear how far north that will go

    I strongly suspect that given funding constraints there may be an attempt to avoid resurfacing parts of this route given the M28 works will be commencing soon



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,020 ✭✭✭blindsider


    I agree with Marno in #1450. WE can probably expect a fair bit of heavy construction traffic on that route from now on, so re-surfacing it probably doesn't make sense - but it def. does need it!



  • Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    The eastbound lane when you just enter Bloomfield is full of deep potholes. Surely it can't be too expensive to resurface 20-30m


    I haven't seen workers in Broadale or on Maryborough Hill in a while, other than the small work on the bridge. Anyone know why it has stopped all of a sudden, or is it all go in Mount Oval?



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Given that these are only advance works, it would be unlikely for work to continue hell for leather long term.

    We won't see major works until the main contract is awarded which remains at least 15-18 months away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Are the reasons for such long lead times due to legal or monetary reasons? After all the planning and objection delays, it seems projects drag on needlessly these days.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The funding to commence the project has not been provided.

    The entire budget for new national roads next year is expected to be €145m. That level of pathetic funding is holding up projects left right and centre.

    Should this project be fully funded it could commence in late 2024. It’s a pity because it’s not some pork barrel project, its holding up so much in so many places.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Funding is undoubtedly an issue, as it always is, and there is a constant feeling that Ryan’s department are using funding delay tactics to put a break on road projects when all other means of stopping them have failed. But I don’t think it is the key issue here. First off this project is to be funded under TEN-T which I believe means the EU will pay 25%-50% and secondly the cost of the road (given that it is only 12.5km in total) is relatively small in the overall capital budget context. It’s also worth mentioning that the M/N28 project was allocated €19m in 2023 to allow advanced works and other project work (including the tendering process) to proceed. 

    The project is currently at TII Phase 5 (Enabling and Procurement). This involves the preparation, publication and assessment of tenders as well as advance works (land acquisition, site clearance, fencing, utility diversions and archeology), general governance (cost, value, risk assessment etc), selection and appointment of Technical Advisory Services for the remaining phases and ultimately the preparation and presentation of the Final Business Case. It was always anticipated that this phase would be longer than usual for this project and I remember a period of 3-4 years being mentioned - with a lot of it caused by the scale of CPOs required, together with the complexity of the service diversions at the Northern end and the extent of the archeological work required. 

    We aren’t seeing any ongoing updates which is a pity. Reading between the lines it looks like it will go to tender sometime in the next 12 months, with the contract award and final approval to proceed (including funding) by the end of 2025 and construction starting in 2026. 

    One word of caution. While Sean Callery, Senior Engineer with the Cork National Roads Office said last October that the M28 motorway is scheduled to be completed by 2030, and TEN-T also expects completion of the Core TEN-T (of which the M28 is part) by 2030, TII have stated on a couple of occasions that completion of the M28 is expected “post 2030”.

    And in case it it looks like I am trying to justify the timeline, I’m not. Prunudo’s point about projects dragging on needlessly is very well made. Under TII and the DPER the whole process has become bizarrely complicated and there is almost no chance of a major road/infrastructure project being completed in less than 10 years excluding any legal delays. If the M28 is completed by 2030, it will be 18 years since the project started (and you could argue considerably longer).



  • Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭legend99


    There are builders in Mount Oval, and have been for weeks and weeks, and they are continuing to work on what must be a pretty expensive wall! Various sections had their heights spray painted on at one point, and some sections were tagged ad 6 meters....



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,044 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    "We aren’t seeing any ongoing updates which is a pity. Reading between the lines it looks like it will go to tender sometime in the next 12 months, with the contract award and final approval to proceed (including funding) by the end of 2025 and construction starting in 2026. "

    If any of this is accurate, it is a disgraceful timeline slippage. It was supposed to start next year for the last few years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,354 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    Wife works for company who are bidding for this, their deadline is end of May for submission



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The intended commencement has been 2026 for at least two years, if not longer. Funding has been limited until 2026 (and not due to lack of money, just spend profiling) but due to increase from then on. Given the huge exchequer surpluses being posted, commencement really should be brought forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Just to clarify for others, that is the tender for consultants to oversee the procurement and construction phases, not for construction itself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Doubt the greens could stomach the idea of speeding up the start date of construction of an almost shovel ready road project.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I doubt the Greens would be bothered, the project will happen regardless and the port relocation it facilitates will have many extra benefits. The problem is more with Dept. Fin/DPER.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    DTTAS funding for 2020-2025, published before the last election, had this scheme receiving 178m between 2020 and 2025. Obviously the judicial review put that back by 1 year, which would still have resulted in the scheme starting in mid 2024*

    The first I heard of any substantial delay to this was when TII CEO Peter Walsh appeared before the Oireachtas Transport Committee in January 2021 where he said there was no money to start any additional projects until after 2026 other than the N5/Moycullen/Listowel which had been committed to.

    (Funding was 2020 - 4m, 2021 - 12m, 2022 - 12m, 2023 - 50m, 2024 - 50m, 2025 - 50m, apologies my keyboard has no functioning euro symbol).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Hopefully all of it is accurate, I believe that it is. If you are aware of anything to the contrary I’d like to hear about it.

    That is the following contract/tender for Technical Advisory Services for Phases 5,6 and 7. I referred to this in my previous post. The fact that these consultants are needed for the current phase is itself an eye opener. (I would have expected them to be on board well before the main tender invitation is issued)


    It’s a road. On past performance Ryan will do anything possible to slow it down. And unfortunately the project is far from shovel ready. Even if funding in full were approved today it is unlikely that construction could commence before 2025.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    It’s a road. On past performance Ryan will do anything possible to slow it down. And unfortunately the project is far from shovel ready. Even if funding in full were approved today it is unlikely that construction could commence before 2025.

    Indeed. If only he wasn't so blinkered he might realise:

    1. The M28 will allow far better bus access to Carrigaline, Ringaskiddy and Cork Harbour
    2. It'll greatly improve options for active travel, even if it just means the old N28 won't be as busy (cycling access to Ringaskiddy is pathetic at present because of Carrs Hill).
    3. The M28 will enable more port functions to move out of the city, opening up land for thousands of homes in new, sustainable precincts in the city
    4. It'll remove trucks and heavy traffic from urban areas
    5. It'll reduce traffic idling on Carrs Hill (emissions from going nowhere)

    Such a pity they can't see the forest from the trees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,354 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    Oh Jesus, I just assumed they were coming up to the construction stage. Wife wouldn't be acting as a consultant, is only told what to put into a tender document, hence why I thought were at that stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭Hibernicis




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭prunudo


    "It’s a road. On past performance Ryan will do anything possible to slow it down. And unfortunately the project is far from shovel ready. Even if funding in full were approved today it is unlikely that construction could commence before 2025."


    I'm no road engineer but looking at that footage, I don't see how, if there was a will and funding was available, construction couldn't start within the next year. We're too bloody slow at infrastructure in this country and only getting worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Consultants to prepare the tender documents haven't been appointed yet. Once someone is appointed, it will likely take the best part of a year to prepare the tender package. Once the tender has been issued, it usually takes about a year before a contractor is appointed. Best case, it commences summer 2025.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,020 ✭✭✭blindsider


    For those of us who use the N28 every day, this is depressing!

    WFH is not an option, even 1 day a week...

    I may retire before this bloody road opens 😨



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Well there is no alternative. Even if it's slowed down to 0, there is absolutely no alternative. I've spoken to some greens who have said they were against this road upgrade and they didn't have any alternate proposals. So I don't see any benefit from slowing it down, personally. Maybe they're hoping busconnects and Carrigaline TPREP will be done first but I don't think the phasing matters much (and I doubt busconnects will do much of anything at all if I'm honest).



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