The travelling community

TomTom

What are peoples opinions on the travelling community?
Do you think they get a raw deal and deserve more rights or do you think they are freeloaders and bullies?

Zombrex

Both

I have never meet a traveller that didn't ask me for money or hassle me in some way.

But then again, that would be the only way I would ever meet a traveller because we, as settled people tend to avoid them based on their stereotype.

We give them attituted, they give us attitude and so on.

Droogie

Wicknight wrote:

Both

I have never meet a traveller that didn't ask me for money or hassle me in some way.

This would be close to my point of view... I view some of the members of the travelling community in my vicinity as absoloute scum because all they are is wasters...

However, I do meet the odd one who is ok...

TomTom

I meet the odd one that is ok also, but they tend to be older folk. The majority i have met and dealt with are scum in my opinion.

simu

First of all, rights should apply automatically to everyone with the exception of convicted criminals who lose certain rights and within practical constrictions (e.g. you have to be a certain age to vote no matter what your ethnicity etc).

I don't have any personal experience of travellers apart from seeing their caravans at the side of roads but it seems that they have been deprived of the rights enjoyed by others in the past and that there is a lot of antagonism between them and non-travellers. On the other hand, this does not excuse irresponsible and anti-social behaviour on the part of some travellers.

Any travellers who break the law should be dealt with the same way as any other lawbreaker. Also, a way must be found to increase travellers' participation in education and improve their access to medical services as they seem to lack behind the rest of the population in these respects.

IANOC

we all have the same rights at the end of the day
BUT i do think separation is the key to peace.

dudara

Once upon a time, I would have said fairness and equality for all, but lately, my views have changed somewhat. The travelling community do very little to help themselves. Anyone who lives/lived on a farm will know full well the hassle that comes with lads trying to sell a gate or some carpet.

My mother is a national school teacher, specialising in remedial work. A few years back, some travelling families were settled in the region for her school, and she was given an increased allowance per student for the traveller children in order to buy extra books and equipment for them. This extra allowance was far greater than the standard per head allowance. Attendance by the children was extremely poor, and my mother was absolutely disgusted that money was wasted in such a fashion, when it could have been far better used in other ways in the school. And my mother would, in general, be a very tolerant person.

D!ve^Bomb!

they're all scum! simple as...

keu

there's a difference between travellers and knackers.
travellers have a genuine ethic culture, they have their own customs and language.
knackers are just knackers.

flyz

D!ve^Bomb! wrote:

they're all scum! simple as...

No so.

Some are scum, not all.
It's only the scum ones we see cos the decent ones mind their own business and don't get seen by the public.

IANOC

flyz wrote:

No so.

Some are scum, not all.
It's only the scum ones we see cos the decent ones mind their own business and don't get seen by the public.

ditto

shelly04

some are scum. i remember getting into an arguement with one girl last summer for being 'posh', and me being me, had to give as good as i got, but, girls i knew from years ago (also travellers) stood up for me as did the traveller bloke who was going out with the girl i was arguing with, so i have to say, although i generally dont have anything to do with the travellers, they arent all scum, in fact most of the ones i met that night was souder than my mates were

Stoner

I agree also, years ago when I was still in college I worked on some houses for travellers. You had to watch everything your tools etc, i was wiring the houses so copper was like gold, brought the corporation rep up every time a house was finished to get him to sign it off as stuff went for a hop during the night. Knowing this you looked after your stuff and I met plenty of decent guys, the Dublin V Meath football replays were going on at the time (so it was 1991?) and there was alot of slagging between the guys as half of them were from dublin and the other from meath, every house/ caravan had a flag. Most were decent types who said hello and good bye , respectful to all , and would swipe your hammer when you turned your back LOL. There are different levels of traveller, the beggers , the drunks, the half english ones who move into your land and wont go till you pay etc. there is alot worse out there then your average traveller once you understand them and they understand you should generally have no problems. The ones who beg , rob and skin the country give em all a bad name, the dirt some leave behind is the worst but many of the traveller reps know all this and are trying to change it.

TomTom

simu wrote:

Also, a way must be found to increase travellers' participation in education and improve their access to medical services as they seem to lack behind the rest of the population in these respects.

As pointed out before they have every access to these services and get more benifits when it comes to it than most others. I am sick of the ones down the country. I was robbed by two while working in an offlicence and hit in the process. When I told the guards it was travellers they more or less said forget about it. They are bullies also. They will try to sue you for the slighest thing saying you are discriminating against them.

Nasty_Girl

My village is settled travellers, planted if you will. Some of them are extremely decent and a lot friendlier and welcoming than most general people I know.
but as usual there's the guy who bet some one into a coma and receives free legal aid despite driving a 04 jeep.

Personally I don't understand the traveller way of life well enough to judge it, fair enough if they want to settle then I think the help and tolerance they need should be provided.

simu

TomTom wrote:

As pointed out before they have every access to these services and get more benifits when it comes to it than most others. I am sick of the ones down the country.

Problems aren't solved just by throwing money at them. What kinds of benefits do they get anyway?

kinkstr

99% of travellers ive come across have been the scum of the earth,it makes me sick when i see them on the news giving out because the halting sites (which im paying for) arent clean enough for them,ive seen travellers house and i in my opinion they live like animals and its no ones fault but there own

Evilution

Never met a nice one. I've seen and heard too many horror stories of traveller invasions on small towns and communities. They're harder to get rid of than syphilis. And after that whole incident in Dunsink....
They're thieves, dole-spongers and thugs. Granted, there may be a few nice one's, but what is a 'nice traveller'??? Thats an oxymoron in any language. They contribute nothing to society.
England are also having a lot of trouble with them. Seen some articles in the paper and on TV before xmas about it.

weemcd

the word community is bullsh*t as i have worked at a few traveller weddings, there is no sense of comunity to these scumbags. A typical wedding involves them destroy the hotel, smashing bottles, throwing plates and knives about with their little bastard children run around sliding across floors and breaking things. worst of all they are fighting amongst themselves by the end of the night, and being abusive to staff

is_that_so

IMO they have a serious credibility problem in Ireland. True there is some discrimination against them but I am unsure what it is they represent any more. I see a degree of resentment towards them. Their representative groups defend the "traveller way of life" . What does that mean? Anyone who has passed a temporary site at the edge of the road will only see what has been left behind. I have a big problem with this.

I do agree however that they should be provided with halting sites and if they wish to settle they can be helped in this, but that means following the same norms of society all of the rest of the population follow.

For me there has to be a halfway house, for the travelling community to state how they feel and what they want and for the rest of the settled community to do likewise, without recourse to insults or accusations. I don't see this happening because political correctness has hamstrung us. We cannot voice criticism without having a finger pointed.

With rights comes responsibility. That is conveniently overlooked.

cartman

take it from me who works in leisure world [bowling alley,quasar, games etc] knackers are the scum of the earth, they are ALL the same and people might think im being cruel but they can be your best friend one minute and turn on you the next. the last year of my life has been chasing knacks, ringing gaurds and them trying to hit me, even the older lads that i thought would be grand can turn on you they are all scum and at this point i hate them so much [n i dont dislike many ppl] i wouldnt give two ****s if they were dead in the morning,
they are all the same..
people mightnt like what i say and im sorry but these lads look for equality when they are different, there mean and bullies and they do it by nature i have yet to see 1 decent one out of about 1000 at this stage, day in, day out...

/rant over

krispie

again sorry if i offended anyone but i have my stance

cartman

also there are no different type of knackers, there all ****in scoby **** who should go and die

shelly04

Krispie wrote:

there mean and bullies and they do it by nature i have yet to see 1 decent one out of about 1000 at this stage, day in, day out...

i will agree with you to a certain degree,yeah some of them ARE bullies who are quite proud of the way they act all tough and sh1t,but only for her mates (see my last replies) i would have been seriously hurt because for some reason she had it in for me not totally sure why. If the other travellers hadnt stepped in i WOULD have been beaten up and my mates certainly didnt stand up for me on said occasion as they were scared. Have to say my experience with them is limited but from it i reckon that like everythin theres the good and theres the bad

Nasty_Girl

My mother crashed her car a few years back and out of all the traffic that passed her by the travellers were the first to stop to ask her did she need a hand.
That said it bugs me when you question any aspect of them and they respond with "Its our way of life" and we're all supposed to bend over backwards,
I'll close by saying I once lived in a town where the settled people were ten times worse than the travellers though.

Zulu

is_that_so wrote:

IMO they have a serious credibility problem in Ireland. True there is some discrimination against them but I am unsure what it is they represent any more. I see a degree of resentment towards them. Their representative groups defend the "traveller way of life" . What does that mean? Anyone who has passed a temporary site at the edge of the road will only see what has been left behind. I have a big problem with this.

I do agree howver that they should be provided with halting sites and if they wish to settle they can be helped in this, but that means following the same norms of society all of the rest of the population follow.

For me there has to be a halfway house, for the travelling community to state how they feel and what they want and for the rest of the settled community to do likewise, without recourse to insults or accusations. I don't see this happening because political correctness has hamstrung us. We cannot voice criticism without having a finger pointed.

With rights comes responsibility. That is conveniently overlooked.

Super post.
"With rights comes responsibility". When they take responsibility for the industrial waste they leave behind them, they'll start to earn my respect.
When they take responsibility for their anti-social actions, they'll start to earn my respect.
Currently they have no respect for our society, and our environment.

Zulu

Krispie wrote:

also there are no different type of knackers, there all ****in scoby **** who should go and die

Zulu

Nasty_Girl wrote:

I once lived in a town where the settled people were ten times worse than the travellers though.

Limerick?


-Joke people, relax-

landser

thieving gypsy bastards

puntosporting

Zulu wrote:

Limerick?


-Joke people, relax-

Limerick is a city not a town!
Anyway if i park on a double yellow line for 2 minutes i get an 18 euro fine or worse i might get clamped/towed in certain places yet a traveler can park in your bloody garden and it takes weeks to be moved on with no prosecution of any sort.

cartman

i hate scobey knacks,

MiCr0

i've a feeling this thread is going no-where

Nasty_Girl

I think you'd be right

AngelofFire

I reject the stigmitisation of travellers, i have come accross a few very nice people in the travelling community, they have had their way of life for centuries, and are entitled to keep it, they are decended from people who were thrown of their land in the 16th and 17th centuries. Like all all sections of the population, there are many travellers who are good people, and also those who are not.

Sleepy

AngelofFire, they are entitled to keep their language, culture and heritage.

They are not entitled to dump their waste wherever they see fit; fight in bars, church car-parks, hotels or emergency wards; expect the state to repair what they damage when they decide they miss it (see Galway Co Co recent problems); camp on private property or break any other laws

Sangre

Don't have any respect for them whatsoever, to me they come across only as thieves, bullies, criminals, violent and disprutive. The notion of private property is lost on them, they don't care if someone has worked their life for it, they justify everything with 'its our way of life' and expect the PC brigade to protect them every step of the way.
They are also extremely litigious, trying to make some compensation from anything' 'Help Im being repressed, that pub owner wont let me and my 20 mates in because we're travellers' No, its because you trashed the place last week. Why in this world can't we refuse a big group of travellers who you know are going to start trouble but its perfectly ok to do so to a bunch of knacker lads who happen to live in a house? Any experienced owner can tell who is going to make trouble and who won't by either their actions/dress/demenour/attitude...bah.

Having worked with electricians for a summer I can tell you they hate travellers nearby because they will steal copper and their tools as soon as they can, made worse by the fact these lads have to pay for their own tools.

Now of course being a logical person Im sure its just a few bad apples ruining it for everyone because the decent folk don't grab our attention but my want for equality isn't going to over-rive my desire not to be robbed or beaten up and Im afraid thats the same for a lot of people. Im afraid it has gotten to the stage where it is the travellers who are going to have to make the effort to create a peaceful environment not the settled community.

therecklessone

MiCr0 wrote:

i've a feeling this thread is going no-where

Its going somewhere all right, destination bansville (after the warning issued the last time said subject came up for debate)...

AngelofFire

Sleepy wrote:

AngelofFire, they are entitled to keep their language, culture and heritage.

They are not entitled to dump their waste wherever they see fit; fight in bars, church car-parks, hotels or emergency wards; expect the state to repair what they damage when they decide they miss it (see Galway Co Co recent problems); camp on private property or break any other laws

I agree, i stated that they should be threated as equals and that would also mean being equal before the law.

RampagingBadger

I'm in favour of travellers being allowed to live their life the way they want to. However I'm not in favour of paying for it. If travellers want to travel around the place then fine. They should buy land all over the country. If they want housing join the housing lists like everyone else. I don't think the government is doing anyone any favours by helping to perpetuate their travelling ways. In days gone by migrant workers were needed. Travellers brought skills (metal work) and labour and were an important part of society. Well society has changed. It's not possible to hold a normal job or to attend school if you move 3 or 4 times a year. Solution - tell them to pay for their own land (then they won't leave it like ****e) or give them the option of social housing (not in caravans).

Travellers seem to be able to afford fancy geeps and caravans. If they can afford that they can afford land. I have not problems with travellers as people. People are people, some are w@nkers, others are sound. People will say they'll "loose their way of life". Well their way of life was lost long ago. We're still Irish but we don't all live on acre plots and harves spuds. Moving the way they do is not tenable in the modern world. They can keep their traveller culture but live in a house.

Keyzer

This was done before and the comments were down right stupid and the end result was nothing...

RampagingBadger

Keyzer wrote:

This was done before and the comments were down right stupid and the end result was nothing...

Sorry do you mean this thread or my post? Not really sure what you're talking about.

TomTom

simu wrote:

Problems aren't solved just by throwing money at them. What kinds of benefits do they get anyway?

I don't want this thread to turn into a rant and rave thread, people should give opinions on what can be done to help them or remove them. This does not include wild statments about killing them please.

As reagards benifits. There is a small school close to me. A few travellers have settled close by and the kids are going to school there and they get a special needs teacher for every 2 pupils. The bit that i find unfair about this is that if they were send to school from an early age like the majority of kids, they would not need this special treatment. I am not saying they should not be educated but they get special treatment. There was a kid that was in the class below me in school who had learning disabilities and he was never granded a special needs teacher even though his mother applied several times. The school was regected several times saying that there was no special teacher available or they could not afford it. Yet this small group of traveller have three teacher all to themselves. The other guy however works in rehab and will probably be there all his life. If he had got the proper teacher he could have developed alot and would be an active member of socity in my opinion.
A system should be setup to review this and travellers should be informed that kids should be sent to school from age 4 or 5 in order to be given access to proper education. You may argue that this is messing with their way of life but its unfair to expect the irish tax payer to fund this just because they want to move around. Or they should be made pay towards the provision of this special education. If they can afford 40 -50k jeeps they can surley put a bit towards their education.
Also an education might impliment a better manner into them from an early age.

Also there is an illigal haulting site in tullamore that is an absolute disgrace. The council cannot move them and few people would dare enter it. They have animals tied up inside the gates that looked like they are about to drop from starvation but you never see the ispca going in there probably due to the fact they are scared. The council installed sub terranian rat traps there a few weeks ago bacuase the dirt is causing the rats. I was talking to one of the guys that works for renokil and he said all they did was whinge about the dirt of the place and that the council did not help them. Thats not on in my opinion.

Haulting sites are not an answer and should certinaly not be a right for them. The majority of them come destroy the place and leave. They should be made earn them by taking care of the ones that exist themselves. Also existing communities should have a greater say in where they go. We have a case here in our town where the council want to set one up out the road. All the local residents have formed an action group to prevent it from being set up. They should be asked befor a decision like that is taken.

is_that_so

Based on a piece in the Irish Times it seems that there are stiil 788 families which is 12% of traveller population , on the side of the road and councils are required to house them , either through social housing or halting sites. Not sure if piece is in online edition as I have no access to it.

stratos

This could get me barred from this forum. I will say it simply. My work brings me in contact with them, I mean I am there to help them. If you have never met a traveller you should not be commenting. I mean shut up. I have met stoats with more human compassion!

If you have never met a traveller you should not be commenting. I mean shut up. I have met stoats with more human compassion!

Is it possible to live in Ireland and not have met a traveller at some stage in your life? They have a tendacy to turn up just about anywhere.

As for human compassion, Travellers need to show that they have a right to it. Its not as if Travellers are dirt poor. For the most part, they're not. They've chosen to live in the way that they do, and chose not to join the normal practices of society.

The "normal" practice of society in Ireland is that you go to school, get a job or go to college, and pay your taxes while growing older. You contribute to the country, and you pay for the privliges that you obtain. If you enter Government employment you accept you'll never be rich, as opposed to the people who enter business with the aim of earning loads. Its a toss-up. You chose your circumstances and you bear the responsibility for your own actions.

The problem with Travellers (generalisation, not all Travellers fall into this category), is that they don't want to be part of Society. They have no wish to contribute or join the rest of the population of Ireland. They wish to remain a sub-society of their own, while gaining the benefits of being Irish. That is the problem. They want the benefits, but aren't willing to bear the responsibility that is normally incurred.

I grew up in Athlone, and went to school (both primary and Secondary) with travellers. My mother taught them as have other members of my family. And I can say from experience, that I don't want any further contact with them. They are a stain on the landscape of Ireland. At least the immigrants from Nigeria and such are willing to become citizens and contribute. Travellers don't.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

And I can say from experience, that I don't want any further contact with them. They are a stain on the landscape of Ireland. At least the immigrants from Nigeria and such are willing to become citizens and contribute. Travellers don't.

*nod*

them and the jews.

clearz

Deleted User wrote:

Is it possible to live in Ireland and not have met a traveller at some stage in your life? They have a tendacy to turn up just about anywhere.

As for human compassion, Travellers need to show that they have a right to it. Its not as if Travellers are dirt poor. For the most part, they're not. They've chosen to live in the way that they do, and chose not to join the normal practices of society.

The "normal" practice of society in Ireland is that you go to school, get a job or go to college, and pay your taxes while growing older. You contribute to the country, and you pay for the privliges that you obtain. If you enter Government employment you accept you'll never be rich, as opposed to the people who enter business with the aim of earning loads. Its a toss-up. You chose your circumstances and you bear the responsibility for your own actions.

The problem with Travellers (generalisation, not all Travellers fall into this category), is that they don't want to be part of Society. They have no wish to contribute or join the rest of the population of Ireland. They wish to remain a sub-society of their own, while gaining the benefits of being Irish. That is the problem. They want the benefits, but aren't willing to bear the responsibility that is normally incurred.

I grew up in Athlone, and went to school (both primary and Secondary) with travellers. My mother taught them as have other members of my family. And I can say from experience, that I don't want any further contact with them. They are a stain on the landscape of Ireland. At least the immigrants from Nigeria and such are willing to become citizens and contribute. Travellers don't.

I agree completely with everything you say and this is excactly the points I make when this topic comes up in conversation. I have also went to school with them and my father was the county housing engineer so he had first hand dealings with them. There might be one that I went to school with that I would talk to still but the truth is the vast vast majority of them are taken out of school at the age of 12 to go into the family apprenticeship of scamming the system for all its worth.

them and the jews.

What relevence do the Jews have to this topic? I certainly haven't mentioned them in my post.

the truth is the vast vast majority of them are taken out of school at the age of 12 to go into the family apprenticeship of scamming the system for all its worth.

To be completely honest, I wasn't even refering to the crime element within the travelling community. Rather I was pointing to their lack of involvement in what I'd consider the "normal" involvement in Society. i.e. employment, getting off the dole, not seeking Social relief, planning kids etc

clearz

Deleted User wrote:

To be completely honest, I wasn't even refering to the crime element within the travelling community. Rather I was pointing to their lack of involvement in what I'd consider the "normal" involvement in Society. i.e. employment, getting off the dole, not seeking Social relief, planning kids etc

By "scamming the system" I mean both illigal activities and legal ones ranging from getting social welfare to claiming of insurance. Speaking of insurance they dont even insure most of their cars.

By "scamming the system" I mean both illigal activities and legal ones ranging from getting social welfare to claiming of insurance. Speaking of insurance they dont even insure most of their cars.

oh don't get me wrong. It bugs the hell out of me that I have to pay and live within the law, paying my taxes, living within the system, and they can live without and reap the benefits that I pay for.

I have a decent job, I pay rent on a lovely house, I don't have a car yet, but I expect I will soon. I pay for all that I have on nearly a daily basis. It annoys me that a "race" or sub-society can take all the benefits that our government provides and then contribute as little positive actions as possible. As I've said before, for the most part, immigrants will stay and contribute to the country. All traveller communities tend to do is take as much as they can, and leave a mound of debris behind them.

Re, the car insurance, Ireland is a bit of a joke. Its not just the travellers that are taking the piss. Farmer insurance on Tractors is redicilous (a rate thats lower on average than normal car insurance, and many won't even have that insurance, and yet you'll see them on main and secondary roads), and the handing out of driving licenses in the 60's-70's to just about anyone was pathetic. We now have people who really can't drive properly within the law, with full driving licenses, simply because the government wanted more people on the road at that time. Its not purely a traveller thing to be on the road without Tax or insurance and get away with it.

Neuro

stratos wrote:

If you have never met a traveller you should not be commenting.

My family has owned and run a petrol station for twenty years. In that time we've only been robbed once. The (underaged) thief was a traveller. A vanload of travellers arrived onto the forecourt in Spring 1989. A ten-year-old hopped out, ran into the forecourt hut, opened the till, stole the cash and made off in the van. I was about eleven at the time and because I witnessed the robberey I had to ID this kid in a halting site a few hours later. There were plenty of adults in the van at the time, but because the actual crime was committed by a ten-year-old, he couldn't be charged.

Last year two travellers, a man and his teenage son, attempted to steal a 45KG barrel of gas from the back of our private house. They got away but my mother recognised the individuals; they had been to the house a week earlier inquiring about someone in the area selling a car. The gardai were called and it turns out that these individuals were well known to the Gardai. The elder gentleman was wanted for questioning about an armed robbery.

A few months later the Gardai came back and informed us that the elder gentleman had been shot dead by a farmer during a robbery. The son later claimed in a newspaper interview that they were not attempting to rob the farmer; they were simply inquiring about a car.

pickarooney

Idle loafers, not working, getting pissed and starting fights and robbing stuff, making messes and expecting others to clean up after them, not washing...

Sounds like students to me.