The One and Only "Is Airsoft Legal" Thread

General Valdez

If I buy a gun off this site www.airsoftdynamics.com, what would I need?licence? or would it be classed as a toy, see i am from the states and in the states its much diff but i have been living in ireland the past 9 years. so what is the best thing to do?

Sparks

The Gardai have said in the past that these qualify as firearms, so they'd expect you to get a licence, GV. If the airsoft gun has a serial number stamped on it, that should be straightforward enough, the procedure's described here. If it doesn't, however, it's a whole other, messily undefined, ballgame. Thing is, in the UK or most of the rest of Europe, an airgun has to exceed a set minimum muzzle energy to be classed as a firearm (7 Joules in German, 12 foot-pounds in the UK, and so on), but we don't have that here, so pretty much everything needs a licence.

Gun Shy

Hope this helps

S.I. No. 239/1976: FIREARMS REGULATIONS, 1976

10. In any case where a firearm in respect of which a firearm certificate is sought has no maker's number or other distinguishing mark impressed thereon, the applicant for the firearm certificate shall cause such number as may be prescribed by the Minister for Justice or a Superintendent of the Garda Síochána, as the case may be, to be impressed on such part of the firearm as the Minister or the Superintendent may direct.

Read it in full

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI239Y1976.html

Sparks

Well then it sounds like it's very doable if the superintendent agrees to sign off on it (which he'd have to for the licence anyway).

Fallschirmjager

Ladies and gentlemen,

i just had a very interesting conversation with a guy from an UK based airsoft company and a very helpful chap he was too. Basically i explained what i was looking for and that i have begun the process of getting a licence (even tho we might not need them, or maybe we do, well kinda you know what i mean, who knows!) but he did say something very interesting and it can be summed up as follows...

no point EVEN considering ordering as they cant deliver anyways. He said a lot fo the courier firms they use (TNT etc) are refusing not only to deliver to the Republic we know and love but also some from Norn Iron as well...He has had a shed load returned in the last two weeks because he said the law is causing such confusion about legality the companies are just refusing outright...He is expecting some clarification on them and said even if you have a license or not...it wont matter because the unclear position on airsoft and guns generally means (one super says grand, another says no) the delivery companies can never know if they are doing something legal or illegal..

anyways just thought you would like to know...

:rolleyes:

Horsefumbler

I'd be intersted to know which company that was that said they refuse to ship here because i was thinking of getting another one some time in the future. airsoftdynamics shipped to me and my brother and we don't have liscenses but they are a little bit dearer than some other sites so i'd like to know if cheaper sites aren't shipping to here.

Sparks

Since this can go into the biki page's FAQ, I think we can unsticky the thread to unclutter the forum...

E@gle.

sparks do u think that you could create a sticky about what is legal and what is not sticky where people can ask questions and get answers.
just thought it might help out a little

Sparks

Got no problems whatsoever with people asking stuff like that Eagle, I was just hoping to keep the number of stickies reasonably low. We need the charter to be stickied for obvious reasons, and having the photos threads near the top is better than having them lost four pages back; the safety thread needs to be foremost, obviously; and event announcements that are for upcoming events get stickied until after the event (the DoJ call for comments counts as an upcoming event for this purpose). But if we have nothing but sticky threads, then you have to go half-way down the page before you find new threads.

So I think what we'll do is have people post up their questions as they arise in the threads and transfer them to the FAQ biki page as they come up so that we can build up a good knowlege base of information. Sound okay to everyone?

furgious

i was looking through the legislation and the amendments and the closest thing to an airsoft gun is an air gun. i know u need a licence for them but they are referred to as 'firearms' which are defined as 'lethal' guns and airsoft are definitely not lethal.

rrpc

Read the amandments again Furgious Head 79 (i) states

"with a muzzle energy greater than 1 joule" after "an air pistol" and the substitution of
"projectiles" for "slugs"

Most airsoft guns have a muzzle energy of less than 1 joule.

furgious

hey, which ammendment is that?

Rew

furgious wrote:

hey, which ammendment is that?

Looks like you have alot more legal studying to do Its the ammendments to the the Criminal Justice Bill (CJB). See the sticky about it, there is loads of info ther eincluding links the the PDF copy of it.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=181086

Quillo

Anyone know what the legal position is with airsoft in this country ? Are airsoft guns classed as firearms in the way that air pistols and air rifles are ?

Rovi

At the moment, yes, they are.
There's a proposal in upcoming legislation to remove 'guns' with an energy level of under 1 Joule from the firearms/licencing system, and most airsofts would fall into that category.

This has been discussed many times here, do a search for 'airsoft' and you'll get plenty of info.


.

Quillo

Thanks Rovi.

Sparks

For the record, the legislation being talked about above has now been enacted as the Firearms Act 2006, and while not all of that Act has been commenced by the Minister, the part relevant to airsoft has. Section One of the Firearms Acts now defines a firearm as, amongst other things:

an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy

In other words, airsoft guns with a muzzle energy of one joule or less are no longer defined as firearms and can be sold openly as toys or sports gear. Anything over the one joule legally still needs a firearms licence though.

KTRIC

Sparks wrote:

For the record, the legislation being talked about above has now been enacted as the Firearms Act 2006, and while not all of that Act has been commenced by the Minister, the part relevant to airsoft has. Section One of the Firearms Acts now defines a firearm as, amongst other things:


In other words, airsoft guns with a muzzle energy of one joule or less are no longer defined as firearms and can be sold openly as toys or sports gear. Anything over the one joule legally still needs a firearms licence though.

Great stuff. Thats all I need to know.

I plan on bringing back an AK47 (electric hop-up) from Germany at christmas. Do you think I'll have any problems in the airport with it.

Sparks

Do you think I'll have any problems in the airport with it.

Do I think you'll have any problems walking through airport security with an AK-47 replica in your bag when most people can't even get onto a plane with a bottle of head&shoulders these days? Gosh, no!

Seriously, it's rather likely you'd get a question or two given today's climate in airport security. I said it was legal - not hassle-free...

KTRIC

Sparks wrote:

Seriously, it's rather likely you'd get a question or two given today's climate in airport security. I said it was legal - not hassle-free...

Have you or anyone here any expierience of bringing an airsoft gun on a plane in luggage ?

Sparks

Have you or anyone here any expierience of bringing an airsoft gun on a plane in luggage ?

Not airsoft, just real firearms. And yes, there are questions asked. In our case, there's more paperwork involved, mind you.

Look, seriously, you might walk right through with nary a problem. Or, you could meet Joe the airport security worker on a bad day when he's a bit jumpy, and that might be about as much fun as it sounds. Personally, I wouldn't do it. Personally, I'd just have them post it to me from Germany.

kdouglas

i've brought back spring-powered bb handguns before, even as recent as this summer and i just put them into my check-in luggage. with the way things are these days, i cant see anything even remotely resembling a weapon being allowed on in your carry-on luggage.

whupass

god no even years ago you weren't aloud toys guns on the plane (in your person kind of thing) sure if they say a gun under the x-ray what do you think they would do?

jaggeh

if you check the gun with security they give you a leaflet to carry in your passport that says you have checked your baggage with them.

a friend of mine recently brought 2 socom pistols back from tokyo, same friend brought 2 paintball guns back from the states last year, although he had to leave the gas canisters.

whupass

short answer yes

long answer yeah

Bob the Builder

Well, I once brought back 6 airsoft guns from Santa Ponsa, all as weak as piss, no1 was checked.

4 air pistols
2 airsoft rifles

That was two years ago, and things were only calming down after the Madrid Train Bombings incident...

Sparks

nevf wrote:

Well, I once brought back 6 airsoft guns from Santa Ponsa, all as weak as piss, no1 was checked.
4 air pistols
2 airsoft rifles
That was two years ago, and things were only calming down after the Madrid Train Bombings incident...

True, lots of people used to. Thing was, as was pointed out several times by Gardai, it was still illegal under the Firearms Acts.

Victor

In Newark (admittedly before September 11) I saw a hunter load 3 rifles with his ordinary luggage, no problem.

On the flip side, a friend with a ornate (non-functional) khukri had to have an armed escort, admittedly when passing through Beruit Airport. The X-ray guy at the front door went bananas insisting she open her bag, only to realise it was in her other bag.

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=khukri&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images

Cravez

Can someone please point out to me in the CJB or a website or somthing at all of the official statement stating that any airsoft weapon under 1 joule is considered a toy, therefore no license required? I have a very stubborn parent here who wont let me bring one into the house until they see the proof themselves :rolleyes:

Harekin

Just to impress them tell them that since around the 15th or 16th of July its actually called the Criminal Justice Act and it was enacted on the first of August.

The link to the text on oireachtas.ie website is here... http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2004/3404/b34c04d.pdf

And the specific part you are looking for is under the Firearms section(around page 30 I think) and reads:

"firearm" means—
(a) a lethal firearm or other lethal weapon of any descrip-
tion from which any shot, bullet or other missile can
be discharged,
(b) an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a
muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other
weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy.

That good enough for you?

Cravez

Cheers thanks Harekin, puts a bit more perspectives on things now

o1s1n

now, start importing some automatic weapons

actually, should airsoft guns be discribed as *weapons*? probabaly not. wouldnt say it does the hobby any good. i retract that statement!

Dave!

Harekin wrote:

Just to impress them tell them that since around the 15th or 16th of July its actually called the Criminal Justice Act and it was enacted on the first of August.

The link to the text on oireachtas.ie website is here... http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2004/3404/b34c04d.pdf

And the specific part you are looking for is under the Firearms section(around page 30 I think) and reads:

"firearm" means—
(a) a lethal firearm or other lethal weapon of any descrip-
tion from which any shot, bullet or other missile can
be discharged,
(b) an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a
muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other
weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy.

That good enough for you?

hmmm, I've a question. The part I have underlined there, does that not mean that they qualify as a firearm?

A lethal weapon... surely they could be lethal if you use them to like shoot someone in the brain

From which any shot, bullet or missile can be discharged... A BB counts as a missile, does it not?

I'm sure there's an explanation, I just don't know what it is

o1s1n

there is absolutely no way an airsoft gun could be lethal. the WORST damage it could do is blind someone. and i'm sure that's pretty rare.

"an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a
muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other
weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy."

there's the specific section relating to air propelled weapons. airsoft under 1 j = safe

as someone who's been shot in the face, all it does is leave a mark. which bruises and goes away after about a week

Dave!

But take this for example, someone is having an operation on their brain, they have their skull cut open... someone walks in with an airsoft gun, and shoots them in the brain. Could they not die?

I know it's *slightly* farfetched , but I woulda thought it had to be POSSIBLE, not probable.

o1s1n

nope.

see what you're missing here is the fact that sub 1 joule, the bb will not penetrate flesh.

however, im sure bruising a brain with a bb is going to cause some damage. prob not life threatening. although, if you're brain is out of your skull somehow, i'm sure you're life is pretty much in danger anyway

Dave!

lol, true enough

righto, cheers

Sparks

Thing is, the rule on interpreting "lethal weapon" is, can this object, no matter how badly it's being abused at the time, cause someone's death. And if you think you couldn't do a person serious harm with an airsoft gun, you've never been beaten about the head with one

My younger brother is well into airsoft and has many guns includin a highly modified m4 with grenade launcher and various scopes, a famas, and a steyr.
he has an mp7, desert eagle, socom pistol and many more. He had no problem ordering these online and getting them deliverer, but customs have recently seized the last two guns he bought online. I would assume that with the recent weapons amnesty that the Gardai etc. now consider these items illegal.

o1s1n

...
is this a troll?
if not...have you not read the last half a billion posts on this forum?

astraboy

Hi people, just to let ye know air-soft guns are being sold by a retailer in Cork. I'm glad a bit of common sense has come in law about these, it was a grey area for years. The retailer has an electric Mp5 with metal BB's for about 200e I think. I bought a Mac-11 for 20e, delighted. They are good fun for a bit of close range target shooting. Obviously at 20e its not going to be powerful but I intend on getting a BB shotgun or similar soon.

o1s1n

Metal bbs? I have to say, i don't like the sound of that! :eek: Tell him to stock plastic ones instead. Much safer. For people and the future of the sport.

astraboy

o1s1n wrote:

Metal bbs? I have to say, i don't like the sound of that! :eek: Tell him to stock plastic ones instead. Much safer. For people and the future of the sport.

Its all plastic he stocks, I believe he only does metal for this model. Don't quote me on that, I was only in the shop for a few minutes and one of the sales staff mentioned it.

Regarding airsoft, I have a few questions should I post them up here or can I start a thread?

o1s1n

Well probably best to keep this thread on topic. Sure start up a new one. I'll see if i can answer anything

Dave!

Did the retailer ask you for ID or anything, astraman? (if you're young looking that is)

It's a bit careless to be selling MP5's with metal BB's to under-18s.

Jesus the sooner this sport gets formalised the better. It needs regulation.

o1s1n

Indeed. Takes a lot of effort to do though. The sooner the better. Dont want to see this go back the way it was. I'd be ever so p1ssed off

Sparks

DaveMcG wrote:

Did the retailer ask you for ID or anything, astraman? (if you're young looking that is)
It's a bit careless to be selling MP5's with metal BB's to under-18s.

Why would he ask for ID? Airsoft guns aren't legally firearms, there's no duty of care on the retailer's part. It's strictly down to the purchaser, as if these were boxes of cornflakes. Actually, there are more rules about selling cornflakes.

And why would any retailer turn down money handed in at the till? What's in it for their bottom lines?

You want to control this thing, you're going to have to think a bit less reactionarily than "oh, quick, write new laws to ban it". Especially as the easiest thing for the DoJ to do is to just ban it alltogether instead of investing long man-hours into some sort of regulation scheme for what they'll see as a somewhat worrying sport played by unruly kids and vandals who shoot gardai in the face and shoot up parked cars and shop windows.

Try positive reinforcement instead - a national ranking system for airsoft shops with free publicity for the best, that kind of thing. Until it makes economic sense for the retailer to comply with any regulation, enforcement is going to be near impossible.

16airassualt

do you no is there such things as airsoft clubs/games in ireland because im after buying an airsoft gun but dont know where i can use it in a game

o1s1n

www.predatorcombat.com

Huge site in Northern Ireland. I was up there for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Great fun. Going to try and arrange a trip up again sometime soon.

Barrage Paintball in Meath is also trying to get airsoft set up on its site. But that hasnt been sorted yet. Predator is the only place to go really for the time being.

16airassualt

thanks,that place looks deadly.you allowed to bring your own gun bbs ect?? it id be handy if dey opened up that one in meath

o1s1n

If you bring your own gun and gear its £15 for the whole day. Morning session and then an afternoon one.

If you're renting a gun a gear its £30. So bringing a gun is deff a good idea.

You can bring your own bbs or buy some up there for a bag of 3500 for £10.

BB grenades and Coloured flares are £2.50.

What type of gun did you get yourself anyway?