Knackers, Goths, Refugees - Shocking

UNIFLU · 23-04-2001 2:44pm #1

After reading things said about goths etc and knowing that it all started as a pi$$ take initially i was damn surprised at how many people seemed to be quite serious with their displays of small minded hatred. What the hell is with people when they just jump on the band wagon and agree instead of using their mind just a tiny little bit.

Its people like that that has this country the way it is. Theres already too much hatred (travellers, refugees ) to name just a few. Its about time we all grew up and moved on. Just supply a few guns and let the problems sort themselves out, then we'd be as modern as the Americans, oh joy to that.

Anyways just wanted to say that but gonna stop rambling now as mind as wandering to other insane thoughts which are best left dust covered.

E.

p.s.
SheroN, will mess with Gandalfs head for you and get you 20 quids worth of irritation out of him as hes about 10 feet away from me here, all suggestions considered

[This message has been edited by UNIFLU (edited 23-04-2001).]

yossarin · 23-04-2001 2:58pm

yeah, he's right ! sarcasm^-1

nahh, fair point.

smoke.me.a.kipper · 23-04-2001 3:04pm

you've got a good point there, UNI.

Belisarius · 23-04-2001 5:37pm

Erm Quite.
But then again you have to look at the flipside.On the issue of Goths i dont think theyred be half as many of them if they ddidnt invoke such antipathy .So our own distaste plays a role in the goth movement IE:Someone to rebel against . Its like that awful feeling as a child when your parent suddenly "Dig" your music , and compare it to something they used to listen to in thier own sad youths

, In this respect we fulfil a role in the Social ecosystem which supports goths , and we play the role admirably.

On to Travellers. This is where you get no arguement from me . I feel any indignation towards this ethnic group is pure Bigotry and inverted racism , Travellers essentially being more Irish than most of the *******ised city folk who decry them , both Culturally and Ethnically . anyone who argues otherwise i a fool , and a Biased one at that.

Racism and Xenophobia towards Refugees eh ?
Well heres the one subject i would be cool on , if only for the reason that theyres an awful lot of Overkill in relation to Refugee rights , especially in relation to other issues not so Overtly PC and "Chiq", this is not to detract from thier obvious plight but possibly the massive Funds being invested into immigration infrastructure would be better spread around other EProblems of the nations which have not yet recieved the Attention and Fiscal benefits of the National Focus

Shrewgar!

ObeyGiant · 23-04-2001 6:11pm

Travellers essentially being more Irish than most of the *******ised city folk who decry them , both Culturally and Ethnically

I live and work in the city.. I am suddenly less Irish?

Oh please.

Ethnically, they are no more Irish than you or I.. they form a completely seperate ethnic group within Irish society. They have a seperate (although similar) culture to the Irish, complete with their own language.

So please.. down off the high horse.

nesf · 23-04-2001 7:33pm

Depends, as the cities become more and more cosmpolitan some of our culture must be lost.

But then again I'm from the country, and it's no different there. But Travellers? why make them a point of debate?? How many city folk have actually met them?

We are all prejudiced towards some group, be it travellers, refugees or boyband members.

Skorzeny · 23-04-2001 7:58pm

Bravo UNIFLU

The recent displays on the humanities boards of hatred and intolerence are something i had hoped was dieing out in this country.
Ah well hopefully hopefully if im ever the outsider in society i will be welcomed in instead of being attacked for wot i am.

(btw i am not a Goth, Knacker or a Refugee )

Karl Hungus · 23-04-2001 8:50pm

Take a tip from me...
When we've all consumed about a litre of vodka, everyone is the same.
Blurred vision means we all look the same.
Slurred speach and drunken hearing means we all sound the same.

But seriously, there is a lot of xenophobia around.

I think the main reasons that there is hate of the refugees, is that people are feeling alienated out of their own country. It's that simple.

As for guns... I think I'll stand back, and fashion an extremely long poking device.

Clintons Cat · 23-04-2001 8:54pm

How many of the Goth Haters were being serious?
More to the point,which posts did people take seriously?

Karl Hungus · 23-04-2001 9:05pm

Well I don't quite know how you seriously you take take "Goth's are a bunch of tree hugging hippies!"
And the **** about how we never drink of any of that bork...

But it spun some pretty stupid ****.
I'll have a look and see now.

GreenHell · 23-04-2001 9:13pm

BURN EM!!!!!!! the freaks

Karl Hungus · 23-04-2001 9:23pm

Originally posted by GREENHELL:
BURN EM!!!!!!! the freaks

Along with this garbage...
I've looked at the first Goth thread, as posted by bubbles, and I can't ****ing be bothered with quoting all that hate.

Just this: "they should all be lined up and shot, Nazi-style, tie them all together with wire, shoot one and toss them all into a river, save the oul bullets."

I think I posted this because my grandfather died fighting the nazi's, ony for some **** to tell me I should be shot.
Not to mention how goths in general should be driven over, dragged out on the streets and beaten... And so on and so on...
Not to mention the amount of cliche's I had thrown at me in my own thread on the subject.

Belisarius · 23-04-2001 9:35pm

Well I dont hate goths...rather I hate the whole "neediness" of it , all this "look at me , Im different " . Very Sad and not exactly eyecandy to see theese "Gothwholes" sprouting up around the country , forcing us good indie Folk out

. but hate ? hardly. And i dont really expect anyone to stop because of my antipathy , Its thier choice.

As to the controversy on the Traveller paragraph , Yes the Travelling community are far more Ethnically "pure" *I am aware of the rather neo-facist sound to that , not intended* . But generally the settled community of Ireland have interspersed with various other Genepools from around Europe , while Travellers have remained for the most part and hencly as they were "Irish" . Culturally speaking , possibly the wrong word . The culture of a nation is what you make it . Perhaps a better word would be "Heritage"

And whats this?

"They have a seperate (although similar) culture to the Irish, complete with their
own language."

Seperate culture to the Irish?
Please am I alone here or is that the sort of thing Uniflu was on about . This is whats known as "Segregation" Obeygiant. make strenous efforts to avoid . You tell me get off the high horse : Fair enough . But please return the favour and get off the Bandwagon. Its that attitude which has kept this group of People Isolated and on the edge of destitution since the demise of the Timsmithing culture . And as for

"But Travellers? why make them a point of debate?? How many city folk have actually met them?"

I think the fact that most city folk havent met them Is what im essentially getting at

Oh yeah , Angelwhore , the last thing you would call a Goth is "Treehugging Hippy"

Believe me folks , nothing is more annoying than Hollow pandering to Minorities *as discussed in the recent PC threads* But at the route of theese socio-political fads there is a Large element of truth . While you can dismiss the morons who spout it blindly , dont dismisss the entire Idea

Shrewgar!

Karl Hungus · 23-04-2001 10:40pm

Originally posted by Belisarius:
Well I dont hate goths...rather I hate the whole "neediness" of it , all this "look at me , Im different " . Very Sad and not exactly eyecandy to see theese "Gothwholes" sprouting up around the country , forcing us good indie Folk out . but hate ? hardly. And i dont really expect anyone to stop because of my antipathy , Its thier choice.

I cant help but feel that when anyone says the word "GOTH" the image of a miserable 14 year old, wearing a SlipKnot or a Marylin Manson hoodie with their sleeves rolled up blatantly showing off their self inflicted scars, which seems to be the "in-thing" because of various Nu-Metal bands.
With a wallet chain and new-rock boots, they hang around town most of the time looking for someone to say something to them, just so they can turn around and say something back.

I'm sorry... But that isn't it at all...

RopeDrink · 23-04-2001 11:45pm

True goth's dont go looking for Attention... People who do that I believe are called "Pseudo Goth" AKA Attention Seeking Twat who thinks wearing black clothes and a few rings in his face make him look gothic and that he / she deserves attention.

I only really know one Goth (And he's in this thread right now) - I've known him before his Goth days (Been friends for 6 years so we have). It's just like threads posted in relation to Homosexuality - Just because someone is Homosexual (Or Goth, for this thread) doesn't mean he / she deserves to be hated or slagged. No-One understands goth's (I sure as hell don't) and Im guessing that those who have a problem with them have probably met one of those ******* Pseudo's, or just took a disliking to a particular individual and decides that is enough to slag the majority...

We've had huge debates about this topic in the Official Counter-Strike Off-Topic Forums, and by god you get some cold, sick and heartless replies from people who dont even know what a damn Goth is...

[This message has been edited by RopeDrink (edited 24-04-2001).]

Zero · 24-04-2001 12:01am

Originally posted by AngelWhore:
Along with this garbage...
I've looked at the first Goth thread, as posted by bubbles, and I can't ****ing be bothered with quoting all that hate.

Just this: "they should all be lined up and shot, Nazi-style, tie them all together with wire, shoot one and toss them all into a river, save the oul bullets."

I think I posted this because my grandfather died fighting the nazi's, ony for some **** to tell me I should be shot.
Not to mention how goths in general should be driven over, dragged out on the streets and beaten... And so on and so on...
Not to mention the amount of cliche's I had thrown at me in my own thread on the subject.

yawn....think we have been over this....

Karl Hungus · 24-04-2001 12:13am

Originally posted by Zero:
yawn....think we have been over this....

yawn....think it's any less offencive?

ObeyGiant · 24-04-2001 9:16am

Sorry champ, What I said has nothing to do with segregation, or bandwagonning, and everything to do with the fact that they actually have _have_ a "seperate (but similar) culture".

From http://sca.lib.liv.ac.uk/collections/gypsy/travell_old.htm :

They have their own language, beliefs and social customs which have been made stronger over time due to their exclusion and marginalisation from mainstream "settled" society.

And from http://hfjs.ennis.ie/web/travellers/irishtravellers.html , written BY a traveller (you're going to love this)...

We know that we are a distinct cultural group within Ireland because..

<reasons snipped>

I personally have no problem with travellers. The only people I would like to see removed from this Earth are Meg Ryan and Whoopi Goldberg.

UNIFLU · 24-04-2001 9:22am

The plot seems to be getting lost again, the point i was trying to make is that people seem to jump on the bandwagon all to easily. Would be much better if people just aired their own opinions in some mannerly fashion. Theres no use in bashing someone if youre trying to get your point across as it only makes you look like a moron.

I do realise that it is impossible for everyone to agree on everything, we are meant to be individuals, but it should be possible to disagree without being moronic about it.

astrofool · 24-04-2001 10:44am

Unfortunately people stereotype people, this cannot be helped, it's called learning, if one certain type of person treats you shabbily, does harm etc. Then it is only natural to be wary of anyone of that particular type of person. This can reach levels of hatred if a number of incidents occur.

The speaking out against goths is rather unfortunate, but has only happened because the attention seeking ones are the ones that people see, and therefore set the stereotype, I have no problem with any of them, and am hopefully able to distinguish the difference of people within groups (there's a33holes in every group).

Travellers too have bad press, there are a group of them who are very nice to you, if you treat them right, but there is also the minority that steal, cause trouble, and generally do anything to turn a person against them. Example: I work in a shop at weekends, there are a group of travellers who are perfectly welcome, and we'd actually get on relatively well, in a shop -> customer sort of way, but then there's another group who have been banned for stealing every time they go into the shop, and generally just trying to annoy the shopkeeper, by pretending to steal if they know you are watching, which group is more representative of the community? Which group will set the stereotype?

Just because the regular white male/female is the majority, doesn't mean we are any less fallible, luckily we have our parents, friends to base a stereotype on, and not a small group of people.

SheroN · 24-04-2001 7:00pm

Still doesn't mean i have to like knackers...just tolerate them maybe?....they do smell after all....

Excelsior · 24-04-2001 7:05pm

Logic, you just are not in the class of **** stirrer that Zero or Bubbles is.

My Adolescent website:
http://www.iol.net/~mullent

Karl Hungus · 24-04-2001 7:11pm

Originally posted by UNIFLU:
time for pancakes and tea.

I think I'll go for some chicken...
And a coke would be nice too...

Anyone want some chips???

Karl Hungus · 24-04-2001 7:31pm

Originally posted by UNIFLU:
maybe some day we'll have a dance

Paladin · 24-04-2001 7:39pm

It's just like threads posted in relation to Homosexuality - Just because someone is Homosexual (Or Goth, for this thread) doesn't mean he / she deserves to be hated or slagged.

I havent read all the post, but here I agree and disagree.
Obviously I agree with the nobody hated part.
But slagged? Well in a friendly style anyway, I dont think its a big issue. What makes it a big issue is 2 things...
Over PC'ness and...
Just quite simply taking yourself too seriously.

Me and my mates have a laff slagging each other about everything. Suddenly if its based on certain things, like sexuality or nationality its wrong?
Having a laff taking the pi$s/having the pis$ taken is one of the more enjoyable things in life

I know this probably isnt what was meant by the poster, but if someone really gets offended at a slagging then they really arent comfortable with themselves at all.
Getting offended at a direct insult is a very different matter though.

Lord Khan · 24-04-2001 7:41pm

well one thing is for sure
Knackers Goths Refugees ... they'll all get jobs in MacDonalds

JustHalf · 24-04-2001 7:55pm

Originally posted by Lord Khan:
well one thing is for sure
Knackers Goths Refugees ... they'll all get jobs in MacDonalds

Can't anyone? Or do they need to be highly motivated for the corporate goal (the ever elusive dollar)?

By the hollow it will gather,
By the broken it will shudder;
Ever fleeting, ever moving,
Ever down, down, down.

Shall I strive to be excessive,
Or shall I bloat by the agressive,
Ever fleeting, ever climbing,
Ever down, down, down.

It rained in San Francisco Wednesday evening, but the penguins were
still there Thursday morning, smiling broadly.

mewso · 24-04-2001 7:57pm

Travellers
- more pure Irish than the settled community? Perhaps but is that something positive? Dare I suggest inbreeding. Of course to do so would mean I'm a fool and just not with it.
- The settled community has bred with other races. Well thank God for sociability.
- a minority are associated with stealing, bad behavious etc. How do you know? because 3 of them were nice to you. What's the Traveller population exactly? My only experience of Travellers is some of them walking in to our house and stealing my Mother's wedding ring, the community dept. staff in South Dublin Co. Co. needing hefty security guards to meet and deal with them, this gloriously pure Irish comminity of quaint caravan dwellers.

At the end of the day bigotry aside if a group or community has a bad name you must ask why? Whose fault is it? Can we fix it? or should we make posts hailing them as a misunderstood wonder tribe? I offer no answers but it ires me when someone makes claims that should we diss them we are fools or biased ones at that!

Karl Hungus · 24-04-2001 8:15pm

Originally posted by Lord Khan:
well one thing is for sure
Knackers Goths Refugees ... they'll all get jobs in MacDonalds

Actualy, the music stores are quite happy to pick up the Goths.
They know that quite a bit of their wage-packet goes right back into the store, with them buying quite a lot of CD's.
Not to mention that your average goth will be listening to bands nobody ever heard of, and these will be a bit more costly to get ahold of.
Then there is the factor that the goth's friend would shop their aswell.

Paladin · 24-04-2001 9:49pm

But wait, back to my point, arent Goths just uncivilised germans?

pat kenny · 24-04-2001 10:09pm

Kick punch its all in the mind,
if you wanna test me I'm sure you'll find,
the things I'll teach ya are sure to featha,
never the less you'll get a lesson from teacha!
(The Onion Master)

DrunkLeprachaun · 24-04-2001 10:54pm

Most people are bad people. I have nothing against minority groups, only the ****ty individuals that go do ****ty things. Goths, I think, are a bit sad, and a bit of friendly slagging is not inappropriate, but maybe they're depressed people who just need some attention.
By the way, if the only experience of a type of minority group is a bad one, like what happened to musician, it is sometimes hard not to dislike them as a whole.

If there's one thing I hate, it's people.

Shiminay · 24-04-2001 11:10pm

* yawn * did none of you newcommers read my thread and take note?

People can seem really serious when all you can do is read their thoughts and not see them saying it or see the expression on their face.

Please, get over yourselves. Some of us are here to have a laugh. This doesn't mean we can't contribute, but when something is extracting the Michael in the way most of us here were, LEARN TO SPOT THE SARCASM AND HUMOUR!!!

That is all.

All the best,

Dav

Prepare yourself - The Beefy King stirs from his slumber...

[honey i] violated [the kids]

[This message has been edited by Kharn (edited 24-04-2001).]

logic1 · 24-04-2001 11:25pm

Uniflu even if the thread wasn't a **** take your point is total bull****. You assume people were simply jumping on the bandwagon of hate. Maybe they weren't... why can't you realise and respect the fact that maybe these people mulled over their opinion of goths and found that they actually did hate the greasy, grubby, make up wearing marilon manson listening cradle of filth sleeping **** bags and then posted their opinions as such.
According to you people either disagree with bubbles saying they like goths or else they were simply mindlessly posting....
I think your the one that should open his/her mind a bit and realise that the world isn't all teddy bears and bum ****s...

.logic.

UNIFLU · 24-04-2001 11:26pm

Kharn,
woah there, the reason i posted was because of the people jumping on the wagon when the whole thing was started as a pi$$ take, Ive nothing against that and always beleive that life is too serious most of the time and am all for taking the ****. Was just a bit shocked as there were a few too many people for them all to be taking the pi$$ and some pushing it a bit to far.

UNIFLU · 24-04-2001 11:31pm

logic,
mind is well open, maybe some day we'll have a dance.........maybe not!!

anyways enough of this thread methinks as is getting to silly, didnt meant it to get all serious again, was just pointing something out, ah well, time for pancakes and tea.

take care all.

Karl Hungus · 25-04-2001 12:00am

Originally posted by Paladin:
But wait, back to my point, arent Goths just uncivilised germans?

Well, no.
There were a pre-germanic race.
Wiped out by the romans, they were unique because of their archetecture.

The common term, and the one we are using here, is an abreveation of "Gothic-Punks".
Nothing to do with punk at all really, but their "Different" style in the early 80's, punk was the only thing that could suit.
Gothic being the term of the dark beautiful style.

gandalf · 25-04-2001 4:36pm

Thanks UNIFLU its nice to know I can work in safety here.

Oh Sheron I decided to donate your £20 to the Travellers Children Fund I'm sure you'll be happy with that

Gandalf.

[This message has been edited by gandalf (edited 25-04-2001).]

Paladin · 25-04-2001 6:03pm

Dictionary.com:

Goth (gth)
n.

A member of a Germanic people who invaded the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Christian era.
[From Middle English Gothes, Goths, from Late Latin Goth (of Germanic origin) and from Old English Gotan.]

I knew they were germanic.

So what I want to know, is how come there are no visi-gothic-punks?

Karl Hungus · 25-04-2001 6:29pm

Originally posted by Paladin:
I knew they were germanic.

So what I want to know, is how come there are no visi-gothic-punks?

Because visi-goth defines a race long dead.
Punk/Goth is more of a lifestyle/musical statement/dress sence. Or in case of Punks, big time attitude.
Goth's are just really layed back.

Ask Bob The Unlucky Octopus about the club him and I went to in London.
It was open from 10:00 until 7:30 the next morning.
He actualy fell asleep repeatedly.
You couldn't buy any alchohol after 2:30, but everyone stuck around anyway, just having a good time.
The place was ****ing huge too...

Lord Khan · 25-04-2001 6:47pm

Originally posted by AngelWhore:
Actualy, the music stores are quite happy to pick up the Goths.
They know that quite a bit of their wage-packet goes right back into the store, with them buying quite a lot of CD's.
Not to mention that your average goth will be listening to bands nobody ever heard of, and these will be a bit more costly to get ahold of.
Then there is the factor that the goth's friend would shop their aswell.

typo ... think you meant shop-lift :-) j/k don't get your spiked collar in a twist over it

Karl Hungus · 25-04-2001 6:55pm

Originally posted by Lord Khan:
don't get your spiked collar in a twist over it

I'll try not to...
I could imagine if some of the spikes were turned inwards...
Ouch...

GreenHell · 25-04-2001 8:47pm

Originally posted by AngelWhore:

Not to mention that your average goth will be listening to bands nobody ever heard of,

Too things there you say "average" how the hell is goth average when the whole (apparent to observe anyway) of being a goth is too be unique.

and oh wow you listen to music no one else listens too , aren't ye special (maybe other people don't want to coz they like their in one piece. Also try listening to some off the am radio stations or pet sounds or *shudder* dave faning or that album show on sunday nights to hear music that most other people don't listen too.

Karl Hungus · 25-04-2001 8:52pm

Originally posted by GREENHELL:
Too things there you say "average" how the hell is goth average when the whole (apparent to observe anyway) of being a goth is too be unique.

You're a bit dim...
I thought you read my thread?

Here's a quote from it:

Originally posted by AngelWhore:

And about trying to be "Non-Conformists"?
BULL****
I am a conformist!
I am conforming to a standard I like, and I feel happy with.
I am a Goth because I like it.
I like the music, and I get on well with goths. I like the style of dress.

GreenHell · 25-04-2001 9:09pm

Naaa I got bord with your post.

Dim .... possibly who know maybe its all just an act so people will notice with me. Saves more money than trying to look like a freak.

Karl Hungus · 25-04-2001 9:18pm

You're just bitter because you haven't the money to look like a freak.

GreenHell · 25-04-2001 9:23pm

ah money .... of course you need money to be a goth.

Karl Hungus · 25-04-2001 9:25pm

Well you'd need money to buy any kind of clothes, be then of the gothic variety or otherwise.
Same with music.

Paladin · 25-04-2001 9:29pm

Hehe.
I just crack up at the serious way you regarded my posts AW

Visi-Goths were just western goths, but you obviously knew I was trying to be funny

Karl Hungus · 25-04-2001 9:32pm

Originally posted by Paladin:
Hehe.
I just crack up at the serious way you regarded my posts AW

Visi-Goths were just western goths, but you obviously knew I was trying to be funny

Yeah, well... I'm not exactly going to flame you over it?
I also think I should give a good bit of info, because I'm sure the main reason people hate goths is that they don't understand them.
Notice the sheer difference in this thread and the first "God Damn Goth's" thread?
The first one was nothing but pure hate.

[This message has been edited by AngelWhore (edited 25-04-2001).]

Excelsior · 26-04-2001 1:38pm

I liked the Frames when they were sh.it.
Amn't I a great non-conformist?

My Adolescent website:
http://www.iol.net/~mullent

Knackers, Goths, Refugees - Shocking

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