Chauvinism / Feminism, the same thing?

Greenbean

Oh, just putting smiley faces in and all . If I do disagree with you neuro in a thread it doesn't mean I dislike you or anything, just a discussion

Alot of people feel that the tone gets aggressive etc when peoples opinions differ, but its rarely intended. Oh I do hate when someone posts "Handbags at 10 paces", it brings the whole tone of things down and presumes people are bitter. If I'm angry I'll let people know by plentiful cussing and swearing So what should we take from this delightful post? Well the main message is "Greenbean is a nice guy". Ok lets repeat that again "Greenbean is a NICE guy" :P

neuro-praxis

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Greenbean:
I've a friend who loves to just interject when at the pub during chat every so often with "now, now thats an unfair generalisation" just to see how funny it is when people backtrack and apologise when he doesn't give a damn whether they generalised or not.</font>

So are you suggesting that *all* people do this? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?! IT SOUNDS LIKE A GENERALISATION TO ME!!!

heh, just kidding. (insert smiley face here)

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Give me back my towel. I'll sue.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Am sorry to point this out Neuro, and before
u start on, I am not attacking you but while
Christabel Pankhurst was a feminist, she was
also hugely bigotted. Christabel advocated a campaign that would appeal to the more
prosperous members of society. Whereas
Sylvia Pankhurst, Charlotte Despard and Dora
Montefiore argued for the vote for all
adults, Christabel favoured limited
suffrage, a system that would only give the
vote to women with money and property.

Now while suffrage was a good and noble cause,
I would not count amongst one of my idols a
person who was willing to keep the vote from
the "commoners" as she was fond of calling
them.

And just as an aside, Christabel Pankhurst
died in the USA in 1958, the suffragette
who was trampled by the Kings horse was
Emily Wilding Davison. Her coffin was
carried through London draped in the colours
of the suffragette movement, purple, white,
and green. It was escorted by 2,000
uniformed suffragettes. She was a teacher
with degrees from Oxford and London
universities. Is a subject that I took great
interest in while at school and is a bit sad
that alot (or is that a generalisation )
of peeps make the same mistake as you did above.

As for the argument/discussion male, female,
black, white, yellow, catholic protestant,
nobody should be opressed and nobody should
argue with somebody else's right to fight
oppression. But in their fight they should
not cause too much distress unless it is as
a last resort.

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You never expect the Beefy Inquisition !!!


[This message has been edited by Thanx 4 The Fish (edited 26-03-2001).]

Excelsior

I'm not sure about the facts posted above. Perhaps I suffer from the same generalisation ( ) you speak of but can you post a link?
Neuro wasn't proposing that she was someone who should be admired for anything except her dedication to women's rights?
I don't think it is relevant to argue on other points of her political belief system.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Thats a fiver I am owed because I also
placed a bet that the second I printed a
reply to this you'd butt in Exc.

I respect Neuros opinions and just pointed
out a few facts for her benefit, next time
she makes this argument she can talk of the
hunger strikes and force feeding of Emily
Wilding Davison and her attempted suicide in
prison to bring to the publics attention to
the suffrage movement.

Now back to it, Christabels dedication was
to rich womens rights not all womens.
Was she a true feminist (is there such a
thing ?), she believed that only those women
who could afford the vote should have it,
or was she just after the money ?
There were others in her organisation as
worthy of respect, if not more so. And I
NEVER said that she was not worthy of
respect, just noted that she would not be
someone I would idolise.

If you want to find out about this topic
bad enuff then you should look it up
yourself. Belive it or not it is actually
quite interesting.

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You never expect the Beefy Inquisition !!!

[This message has been edited by Thanx 4 The Fish (edited 26-03-2001).]

neuro-praxis

I am not offended in the least, a bit miffed though, as my source...a general political history book by T. Deary was where I got that piece of info. I have read about Davison too, and Lady Astor (first female MP - oddly not a suffragette), and Christabelle's mother Emmeline in there to...so I knew about her aristocracy, but the point was that she suffered for the rights of women. This she certainly did. I am sorry, to Pepperkin too by the way, for my misinformation whilst scolding her. Damn, i look bad now. Kindly excuse my blunder.

There were also feminists who were against the vote of black women...especially in the US, as I have been learning from some other more reliable sources I hope, and indeed there was racism and bigotry involved all round, but it is undoubted that my rights have come as an evolution of women like Pankhurst.

One of the theories for the Suffragette's class distinctions were that frankly, the uneducated lower classed women had neither the education, nor respect of the male leaders in any way, and the women deemed it crazy to attempt to get votes for *every* woman - as this idea would have been met with even more scorn than their own proposals as educated women. This is not to say that they definitely had the intention of gaining equal rights for lower classed women...but ultimately, this is what it led to.

So, I am a little redfaced at my mistake here, but I still feel great gratitude to women such as Pankhurst and Davison.

As to the question of whether they were *true* feminists or not - that is entirely different. It could easily be debated that they weren't - at least not in our modern understanding of the word. However, this does not matter to me greatly, as I am not a feminist anyhoo.

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Give me back my towel. I'll sue.

Excelsior

I butt in on these Bulletin Boards now.
Oh sorry, do continue.

I can spend all that spare time I have now deveoping those crazy reactionary opinions of mine. Hail Hail Corporal Punishment!

Winning Hand

I was going to post this on the humour board but i found this instead, its a letter from the irish times yesterday which sums up alot about certain feminists. Enjoy

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Sir, - As second-year students in Alexandra College, Dublin, we find it truly astonishing that a reputable company such as An Post should still wish to portray women as the weaker of the sexes.

We received leaflets for the An Post Junior Education Awards competition, and were initially delighted to take part in it. However, on examining the leaflets, we were shocked and disappointed to find a photograph of a man and a woman in a cinema which displays the woman clinging on to the man in fright while he sits there calm and brave. This gives the false impression that women are weak and defenceless and that men are strong. This is not so in many cases. It belittles females and gives an unwarranted ego boost to males.

What surprises us the most is the fact that An Post are sending these leaflets out to schools which have been making great efforts to encourage the breaking down of barriers regarding job opportunities. For example, girls nowadays are being encouraged to believe that they are able, both physically and academically, for jobs that were traditionally male dominated. Advertisements such as An Post's are undermining all this positive encouragement for women to succeed in what used to be a "man's world".

Is Ireland still living in the Dark Ages? Class II B in Alexandra College are beginning to think so. - Yours, etc.

</font>

Shocking
Seriously, imagine being married to that.

Hobbes

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Winning Hand:
Shocking
Seriously, imagine being married to that.</font>

The couple in the cinema were probably watching "Dude where's my car". That would shut her up.

neuro-praxis

Yes, imagine being married to that whole class!