FINALLY!! Irish Justice System Prevails!...for once

PRE_10_DER

Taken from the RTE site

Youth given life sentence for Coolock murder

A 17-year-old youth has been jailed for life at the Central Criminal Court for the murder of schoolboy Alan Higgins two years ago.

Christopher Dunne of Millwood Villas, Kilbarrack was also given a concurrent 13-year sentence, with the last four years suspended, for robbing a mobile phone and a wallet from Alan Higgins outside the UCI Cinema in Coolock.

Two others, Michael Maher of Cromcastle, Kilmore West and Anthony Whelan of Millwood Villas, pleaded guilty to the manslaughter of Mr Higgins.

Maher was sentenced to 10 years, seven of which were suspended. Whelan was sentenced to eight years with six of these suspended.

Mr Justice Abbot said that Dunne had engaged in an evening-long campaign of banditry - assaulting and robbing a number of others before stabbing Alan Higgins to death.

Defence lawyers had argued that Dunne, who was 15 at the time of the offence, should be viewed by the court as a child for the purposes of sentencing.

However, Mr Justice Abbot rejected the argument and imposed the mandatory life sentence.

Dunne stabbed Alan Higgins with a steak knife outside the cinema complex in Coolock in October 2002.

Kevin_rc_ie

i think this is a just punishment. well under certain conditions.

he does about 6-8 years and gets out.

he was genuiunely remorseful. how relevant this is is another matter.

he was only 15 at the time.

other than punishment and maybe a possible detterent to others there will not be many benefits of many years in the 'joy.

the young lad was a cousin of a friend and i feel very sad for his family.

JackKelly

thank god.

I know the girl who was with him on that night. And from the sounds of things, that guy should never be allowed see the light of day again.****er

Stark

Thank god for that. Now if only some of the scum living in my area could be locked up.

elivsvonchiaing

In the immortal words of the mortal David Blunkett - "This calls for a bottle of wine!" (Dr Shipman's death in prison)

I do think the scumbag should never see the light of day again, though! I don't think people shouldn't be given second chances or anything - after he has won at least one Nobel prize for something maybe then he gets out... If only this were the case

PRE_10_DER

or possibly if he finds a cure for cancer?? *maybe!!* we can let him out then?

Stark

or possibly if he finds a cure for cancer?? *maybe!!* we can let him out then?

Once the cure for cancer doesn't involve killing them in a different manner.

ShiverinEskimo

I was following this in the papers this week. Did anyone read the statement from the murdered lad's mother. God it was awful reading it. The young fella battled cancer as a wee fella, once he made it through that the mother thought he was home free until some scum of earth with a knife fancied another mobile phone..makes you think, you just cannot predict whats coming..

billy the squid

It is a sad state of affairs that justice has to wait for someone to actually die before they deal with uncultivated and unruly teenagers. The same thing happened with patric slattery in Limerick, his antisocial behaviour was ignored until that four year old baby died in that house fire he started.

it was only then that the guards got up off their arses and decided to arrest him.

seamus

Marge: That's crazy. Look, I know I don't have any proof, but this woman *is* trying to kill me.
Wiggum: [sigh] Fine, let me tell you what I tell everybody who comes in here: the law is powerless to help you.
Marge: Do I have to be dead before you'll help me?
Wiggum: Well, not dead -- dying.
[Marge gets up to leave]
No, no, no, no. Don't walk away. How about this: just show me the knife ... in your back.
Marge leaves]
Not too deep, but it should be able to stand by itself.

It's so true it's not even funny.

billy the squid

seamus wrote:

It's so true it's not even funny.

it wouldnt be too much effort for the guards to arrest and charge someone for putting a brick through someones windscreen, or for stealing someones mobile phone.

the reasont people die at the hands of these people is because up until that point their activities are being ignored by the guards.

in short they get cocky and push their luck

Evilution

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

he was genuiunely remorseful...

Me arse he was Kev. Crocodile tears.
May he rot in hell....or at least the D-wing of Stone Island.

elivsvonchiaing

There is a similar case (not even sure if it's not this one) where the mother of the victim committed suicide... One teenage arsehole gets to destroy many worlds- Personally I would crucify the cúnt in private show him the video - then the crematorioum - where he and the tape were destined. And burn the pair of them - have kettle on boil for Gardai who may call - "Gwan! Gwan! Seargeant have another mister Kipling!" "So if ya don't mind me askin' what is this ash from?" "Aw that's a sorry story guard!" - "There's mine and me neighbours christmas trees, my neighbours dog, who was much loved for many years - an unusual dog - in fact it had a pacemaker "

the_syco

In this country "life" means 15 to 25 years, depending if you "regret" stabbing him, and getting caught with €1,500 of cocaine, days before the murder trial started.

Dave

Of course he ****ing regrets it. He was caught wasn't he. If he wasn't I suppose it would've been a case of "You shoulda seen de state of dis fella I stabbed the other week"

Phil_321

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

other than punishment and maybe a possible detterent to others there will not be many benefits of many years in the 'joy.

There'll also be the benefit of having one less trouble causing scumbag at large in society.

Lemming

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

he was genuiunely remorseful. how relevant this is is another matter.

So remorseful that the defense consul was directed to apologise to Alan's mother for him .....

She of course said that she could not accept an apology made by someone, through someone else ....

joseph brand

@elivsvonchiaing

http://www.rte.ie/news/1999/1111/life.html

His mother later committed suicide and only the Father and younger brother are left. The surviving brother is a friend of my sister's, I can't even begin to imagine how he deals with his new 'Life'!

elivsvonchiaing

joseph brand wrote:

@elivsvonchiaing

http://www.rte.ie/news/1999/1111/life.html

His mother later committed suicide and only the Father and younger brother are left. The surviving brother is a friend of my sister's, I can't even begin to imagine how he deals with his new 'Life'!

Complete blank - I have never tasted these people and have no idea what you're talking about! Ps. you are sicker than me - I don't even get bronze here - you get gold- no argument

ixoy

Dave wrote:

Of course he ****ing regrets it. He was caught wasn't he.

Exactly. His lawyer probably had to enforce the idea to his addled brain that the only chance he had now was to shed a few crocodile tears and pray that the jury would buy it. They didn't and that's good. I'm glad to see the bleeding heart liberal bridgade haven't come out yet and that the good Irish citizens appointed to the case have seen fit to distribute proper retributive justice. If only we can someone get more of these scum off the streat without having to hear constantly how all the damned remand centres are full

Lump

DO THE CRIME, DO THE TIME....


Or something along those lines. Who cares if he was 15... he murdered some one FFS.

John

uberwolf

justice prevailing? see the lengths of those suspensions? two of those lads will be out in months for time served awaiting trial...

Gurgle

billy the squid wrote:

it wouldnt be too much effort for the guards to arrest and charge someone for putting a brick through someones windscreen, or for stealing someones mobile phone.

They do, all the time.
Said scumbag is back on the street within hours.

Remember that prime time program early this year ?

Some of these scumbags have 70 or 80 convictions behind them by the time they actually kill someone. Even then it usually gets diluted down to 'assault causing harm' and they get a suspended sentence or community service.

The gardai imho are doing all they can, its the judges that let the whole system down.

skywalker

Lump wrote:

DO THE CRIME, DO THE TIME....


Or something along those lines. Who cares if he was 15... he murdered some one FFS.

John

i dont think ive ever agreed with one of your posts, until now. let the ****er rot. alan higgins wont be coming home any time soon so why should this scumbag.

Stark

In my bleeding heart liberal days* I used to be totally against the death penalty but these days I'm not so sure. I figure these people have none of the things that make us human - emotion, guilt, empathy, conscience, remorse etc., all the things that we would consider to make up a "soul". It's a totally different scenario to teenagers who are merely troubled and acting out. If they ever get to repress their instincts it will be because it suits them not because of conscience. If society has no qualms about say killing a gentle cow/pig etc. for meat then they should have no qualms about weeding out these beasts.

* It's like that saying. "If you're not left wing when you're young you have no soul, if you're not right wing when you're old you have no brain

Gurgle

Stark wrote:

they should have no qualms about weeding out these beasts.

I absolutely 100% agree with the sentiment.

There are a few problems with capital punishment though, top of the list being reversibility. You would have to have absolute faith that the justice system would never ever convict someone innocent.

I don't.

Trebor

Gurgle wrote:

I absolutely 100% agree with the sentiment.

There are a few problems with capital punishment though, top of the list being reversibility. You would have to have absolute faith that the justice system would never ever convict someone innocent.

I don't.

i would have to agree with this aswell, best thing bring back corpral punishment and let the gaurds kick lumps out of people for small offenses like stealing, anti-social behaviour and other small crimes that waste too much time and money in the courts for the guy just to get off with a warning. a broken arm, that should be warning enough!!! and if they were proved wrong they could offer comenpsation

Kersh

I firmly believe scum like him should be sentenced to death.
Premeditated robbery/murder for a ****in phone..... and he only got a life sentence. And as for the suspended sentences his 'mates' got, they should have got life. scum, scum, scum, you can spot them by the way they look.

Lump

skywalker wrote:

i dont think ive ever agreed with one of your posts, until now. let the ****er rot. alan higgins wont be coming home any time soon so why should this scumbag.

He he, I assumed everyone ignored me up until now!

John

JackKelly

this seems one of the few posts on boards, that Everyone agree's with.

Blub2k4

TimAy wrote:

this seems one of the few posts on boards, that Everyone agree's with.

Or that some dont bother reply to cos the moral brigade are out on their high horses again, with the usual dross about "bleeding heart liberals".

Gurgle

Trebor wrote:

a broken arm, that should be warning enough!!! and if they were proved wrong they could offer comenpsation

Broken ribs, waaaay more painful than a broken arm.

Blub2k4

Trebor wrote:

i would have to agree with this aswell, best thing bring back corpral punishment and let the gaurds kick lumps out of people for small offenses like stealing, anti-social behaviour and other small crimes that waste too much time and money in the courts for the guy just to get off with a warning. a broken arm, that should be warning enough!!! and if they were proved wrong they could offer comenpsation

I think Saddam Hussein had something like this in place.

billy the squid

The judges are part if not most of the problem, all they are is old men and women who havent been living in the real world for a long time. I would go so far a sto say that the concept of "the real world" is alien to them.

fischerspooner

A relative of mine was murdered in a similar cold-blooded fashion on his way home from the pub one night by two teenage boys in finglas. Kicked to death because he didn't give them a cigarette. The fact that my uncle was 43 and unmarried meant he didn't get much press coverage compared to the unfortunate youngster in Coolock. However, at least Alan got some kind of justice. My uncle's killers were the only suspects, there was clear-cut evidence, and after 4 years of us waiting for a trial due to judges not turning up at court etc., they were let go because of a technicality, I'm not even sure what it was now, something to do with the jury. These scumbags left the court giving the finger to the cameras and are roaming the streets now. You're talking about death penalties etc., but if you were a relative of the victim, the whole situation is so hard to understand, I really don't know what should be done with these people. If we kill them are we lowering ourselves to their standards? They are ruthless animals really, and to think they'll probably procreate now and make more little murderers.

Gurgle

Blub2k4 wrote:

I think Saddam Hussein had something like this in place.

Oddly enough, he isn't the first president that springs to mind with policies like that.

seamus

Anyone who'd been convicted more three times should be castrated, and their children confiscated.

Easy peasy.

Milkman

I don't understand the term 'Life'

Surely Life means Life, all your life your scum. Not out in 10 with good behaviour.

Personally I think locking most crims up is a waste of time. Let the burden on the state work for their keep, i have to work to pay my bills, why shouldn't they?!
Yeah yeah human rights violations blah blah, surely when you premeditatidly take a life you relinquish your humans rights.

Here's hoping the cocky scum looks at someone the wrong way inside and gets a taste of his own medicine.

skywalker

billy the squid wrote:

The judges are part if not most of the problem, all they are is old men and women who havent been living in the real world for a long time. I would go so far a sto say that the concept of "the real world" is alien to them.

not in this case. what could he have given him more than a life sentence. life without parole really should be introduced in this country.

Kingsize

to be honest i reckon his mates helped secure a conviction & were sentenced accordingly.this guy was a little ****, i hear his parents are quite nice decent folks but he & his cronies are scum
im no bleeding heart liberal but the death sentence should not exist in a civilised society,it solves nothing & is not a deterrent its half a step away from death camps .
life should mean life however,

Gurgle

Milkman wrote:

Personally I think locking most crims up is a waste of time. Let the burden on the state work for their keep, i have to work to pay my bills, why shouldn't they?!

Oh yes, another of my plans for when I'm running the world.
Instead of a meaningless 'life' sentence, it would be a work-hours sentence.

You're here until you clock up 50,000 hours turning that big wheel over there with the ESB logo. No you don't get paid, you get to eat on the days when you spend at least 12 hours pushing.

See how many repeat offenders you get then.

Stark

You're here until you clock up 50,000 hours turning that big wheel over there with the ESB logo. No you don't get paid, you get to eat on the days when you spend at least 12 hours pushing.

Meh, too much energy wasted on "life functions", the electricity you'd get out would be worth less than the food you put in. I'd say sell them to MacDonalds as "meat", have them fed to all their scummy friends

In response to that person who had their relative kicked to death, that really sucks. Makes a good case for vigilante justice. (I was pretty delighted when I heard that case of a vigilante beating for an "anti-social" teenager up in Belfast, felt sorry for the mother though, her house got a bit of a thrashing). There was another case I heard in Dublin where a guy simply fell off his bike near to a gang of youths and was kicked to death. A western world method of execution would be too good for them.

Hugh Hefner

Firstly: I think this guy should have been found guilty and I agree with the judgement.


Now maybe you guys can leave him alone? He's serving his time and if you're not happy with the sentence then you can complain to the jury, judge and judicial system. There's no merit or honour in calling him a ******/****/*******/etc.

You all seem pretty quick to judge him. If you lot were put into a jury it'd be like 12 Angry Men only without Henry Fonda. You don't know exactly what happened. You weren't there. You know that he stabbed him and he died, and nothing more.

He may not have meant to kill the kid. I know this doesn't relieve him of guilt or any wrong doing and he's still completely accountable. Up until murder I think he should have been helped, but there must be a point (i.e. murder). He chose to plunge the knife knowing full well what could happen and he has to live with that just as the kid's mother does (and the killer's mother). If you feel sympathy for the kid's mother then maybe you should feel sympathy for the stabber.

There's no point in hating this guy (or the supposed scumbags in "your areas"). I can forgive someone for killing my parents or even me and I'm proud I can do this willingly. I know it's harder to forgive this guy than it is to call him names or slanderise his life but that's what we as humans and people, men and women should be able to do to be good and great. If what you say is true then do you think this guy would be willing to forgive such things done to him? Hell no. So be better than him. Let it truely go.

If you think I'm calling you all wrong and a bunch of eejits I'm not. I respect your opinions (not your comments on this thread). Look back at the posts. See how many of them were in good taste, fair and in the spirit of justice, understanding or even the ideal of people being innocent until proven guilty. I think you'll be surprised.

Well that's all. Hope you listened.

To repeat: I think this guy should have been found guilty and I agree with the judgement.


P.S. If I sounded angry at all in the post I wasn't. I tried not to let it read like that but you never know how different people will take things.

gimmick

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

i think this is a just punishment. well under certain conditions.

he does about 6-8 years and gets out.

he was genuiunely remorseful. how relevant this is is another matter.

he was only 15 at the time.

other than punishment and maybe a possible detterent to others there will not be many benefits of many years in the 'joy.

the young lad was a cousin of a friend and i feel very sad for his family.

Genuinely remorseful my ass. He stole a number of phones that night, and probably would have gone on to steal a few more.

What was he genuinely remorseful over? That he had a knife with him? That he stabbed the guy? Or that the guy died?

15 year olds are well enough educated to know that killing someone is very wrong. If the murderous fool didnt go to school to learn that, he cant use that as an excuse.

And i feel no sympathy for his parents either. They saw on a daily basis the type of rat bag they were 'raising'. They should have taken some action, tried to teach him the difference between right and wrong etc. If they couldnt do that, they should have made him a ward of the courts.

Heres hoping his ass gets well reddened in prison. Little scumbag and nothing else.

the_syco

skywalker wrote:

not in this case. what could he have given him more than a life sentence. life without parole really should be introduced in this country.

In this country, "life" is 25 years. So "life" + 14 years + 4 years suspended = 35 years, or less on good behaviour.

Gurgle wrote:

Oh yes, another of my plans for when I'm running the world.
Instead of a meaningless 'life' sentence, it would be a work-hours sentence.

You're here until you clock up 50,000 hours turning that big wheel over there with the ESB logo. No you don't get paid, you get to eat on the days when you spend at least 12 hours pushing.

See how many repeat offenders you get then.

If you have any more idea's, please post them up. If I'm feeling a bit cruel later tonight, I may e-mail the justice minister with a few "idea's" :cool:

Hugh Hefner wrote:

He may not have meant to kill the kid.

Hugh Hefner wrote:

He chose to plunge the knife

You really do sound like a muppet.
He took out knife. He stabbed him. For a mobile phone. He did what he was trying to do; get the mobile phone at all costs. So yes, 35 years of his life is not enough. Why? Because in 35 years he'll be able to see his mother.

The victims mother will see her son lowered 6 foot under.

=-=

If any liberal pinko tries to defend the killer, I'll call them a muppet, because only a muppet would defend someone who kills for a mobile phone.

PHB

Its not defending the killer, its blaming the system.
A society which pushes people to kill for a mobile phone, you don't think theres something wrong with that society?
Thats what liberals say.

p.s.
The fallibility of the justice system isn't a valid argument against the death sentance. We assume, and have to assume, that we are making the right choice when dealing with justice. The reason a lot of people get off the death penalty in america, thus the false view that they didn't do it, is beacuse they eventually et off on technicalities, by the time they execute people it's very unlikely that they are not guilty.
Only a couple of cases have ever been proven, when a person was found not guilty after the death penalty. The fact that mistakes happen isn't a valid reason not to do something.

eth0_

gimmick wrote:

And i feel no sympathy for his parents either. They saw on a daily basis the type of rat bag they were 'raising'. They should have taken some action, tried to teach him the difference between right and wrong etc. If they couldnt do that, they should have made him a ward of the courts.
.

Obviously you're not a parent.

Imposter

Something noone else has mentioned: I'm glad the judge treated him as an adult in deciding his sentence. All too often these scumbags get treated as children and get off a lot lighter than they should. Ok he was only 15 but i'd be 99% sure he knew what he was doing just like any 'adult' would.

nlgbbbblth

how come the newspapers/other media aren't making a big deal of the murderer's background? (the way they did with the Blackrock College/Annabels case)

in fact you'll probably notice that they only make an issue of it when posh boys commit crime

the inference being that the working classes can't be blamed because of the society they grew up in/lack of amenities/poor opportunites and prospects etc etc

funny how the vast majority of people from unprivileged areas are law-abiding citizens then :rolleyes:

fragile

PRE_10_DER wrote:

Taken from the RTE site
Defence lawyers had argued that Dunne, who was 15 at the time of the offence, should be viewed by the court as a child for the purposes of sentencing.[/B]

I understand the need for defence lawyers, and the essestial role they play in providing a fair legal system, I just can't understand why anybody would want the job! personally speaking there is no way I could fight to defend someone like Dunne and then sleep soundly at night.

PS. I think justice was done, a life sentence was what he deserved

Blackjack

funny how the vast majority of people from unprivileged areas are law-abiding citizens then

Careful with that Tarring Brush now.