what is wicca ?

Nevyn

Wicca is not a catch all word for Witchcraft.
Not all witches are pagan.
Not all pagans are witches.
Not all pagan witches are Wiccans.

All Wiccans are pagan and witches.
All Wiccans have proper Wiccan Lineage given by cross gendered initation.
The redes are a poem which gives advice it is not law.
There are laws which are called the ordains.


Wicca is an Oathbound, Lineaged, cross gendered Initatory, Experiential, Mystery, Fertility Cult of Clergy who are Pagans and Witches.

There are differing Traditions with in Wicca but they are all the same religion and stem from from a particular group of pagan witches in the New Forest area.

ancathach

My take on this thread:

Wicca is a religion which is difficult to explain because its elements are multiple and complex.

At its most basic it is a Pagan religion. Paganism is a belief in the eminence of the deity in nature and its beliefs are cantered around the natural world, including rituals to recognise and celebrate the years changing. Paganism was the primary religion of pre- Christian Europe, and Wicca is a form of neo-Paganism, a group of Pagan religions either reconstructed or synthesised in the past 200 years.

It is also a mystery tradition. Mystery traditions have existed since classical times, and are concerned with the nature of man, and his search for his place in the universe. Its also concerned with mans evolvement, which is catalysed through spiritual activities and initiation.

As well of the above it is an oathbound tradition. Although many of its exoteric elements have been published, in its original form its exact rites and rituals were closely guarded. As time has gone on more of what is considered oathbound has entered the public domain, but some elements stay unspoken of and unpublished.

Some beliefs of the religion of Wicca include two bi-polar deities, the God and Goddess whose constant interaction is mirrored in the years changing. These appear in and are celebrated in many forms, most often as an aspect of one of the pre-Christian Gods or Goddesses.

Wiccans traditionally celebrate their religion in small congregations called covens, comprised of 13 or less members, but many people, who because of age, geography or personal preference practice some of the elements of Wicca alone.

Wiccans celebrate eight main festivals at important transition points in the year including astrological and agricultural festivals. They also recognise and celebrate the cycles of the moon once in every moon cycle at an esabat.

The Wiccan also practices a modern mystery tradition, gaining self knowledge and knowledge of self change and development. This is done through intense training causing change on physical, mental and spiritual levels.

This training cumulates in initiation rituals, marking the end of a phase of development and the beginning of another. They also mark a new phase of spiritual responsibility and with each milestone comes responsibilities within the coven setting, but also rights of priesthood within the Wiccan structure.

Many who practice the Wiccan rituals alone and administer their own training decide when they have reached a level of proficiency in the esoteric tradition, and perform a self initiation to mark their passage, taking on personal spiritual responsibilities and acknowledging their own inherent spiritual rights.

Wicca is a morally responsible religion with a code of personal responsibility, most often expressed as ‘an it harm none, do what you will. It requires thought on every action and is reinforced by a Wiccan belief in the idea of the return of energy, or whets sent out comes back.

Wicca holds a belief in reincarnation and the circular nature of existence, shown in the renewing year and our deities.

Wiccans also believe in the art of magic, or the manipulation of energies within the individual and the surrounding world towards a particular goal. This is always done under the directive of our moral ethics, and all acts of magical malevolence are strongly condemned in Wicca.

Wicca is a responsible, earth honouring path that worships the old Gods and that emphasises the self-knowledge and development of all of its adherents.

FranknFurter

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wicrede.htm

Is a good place to start as any as regards explainations imho

b

faecircle

Thank you, for all the information and links - its been very interesting reading through them. I find that the best way of explaning it to people who are really interested is to show them. Its a tricky one, as everyone is always disagreeing.

Nevyn

top_cat13_2000

hey guys i was just wondering is Wicca popular in ireland? Im very interested in it but i dont know where to start. Do i need to join a coven first? Im living in Galway

top_cat13_2000

top_cat13_2000 wrote:

hey guys i was just wondering is Wicca popular in ireland? Im very interested in it but i dont know where to start. Do i need to join a coven first? Im living in Galway

Yes, you need to join a lineaged coven. You'll have to study with them for a year first though, I think. Outer court stuff

This might help
http://www.witchvox.com/vn/hm/iexx.html

Pink Bunny

I think this is a very interesting thread. I get the impression that free thought is welcome here so I'm going to risk disagreeing with some of the things others have written in the hope that it will be received in the manner it is intended, as a free flow of opinions and not as a criticism of anyone else's belief.

What I believe can't be linked to a website or traced to a book. It is more the knowledge that was taught to me from childhood, so what I write isn't intended to be passed on as some sacred truth, simply my opinion for what it's worth.

I believe that popular media has influenced people's idea of what Wicca is all about. Anyone can write a book or host a website. Anyone can say they are an expert and teach others what is the “hidden truth” of the old religion, but it doesn't mean it's the truth. Christianity has done more than anything else to help form the popular belief in what witchcraft was or wasn't. Wicca is an earth religion in many ways like that practiced by the Native Americans. It's an appreciation for nature and higher powers that oversee us. The image of “magic” that Hollywood likes to exploit stems from the talent of wise women to heal and influence an outcome due to their knowledge in the use of those things which the earth so freely gives forth and yet is still ignored by modern science. When modern science uses herbs etc... to heal the credit is transferred to the doctor, the cure neatly labeled to fit modern mentality. The brain and our belief system are a powerful combination. When the power of suggestion is combined with a remedy and it works, magic has if fact occurred. Who gets the credit depends on the belief system of the individual and the culture.

Someone wrote in another thread that all witches have psychic ability. I disagree. I think that due to the popular culture's attention to things classified as “New Age” or the Occult or whichever term you wish to label it, there are too many people out there that are drawn to Wicca because it seems to be a cool counterculture that meets their need for something different and exciting. Take 100 people and see if you can pick who the real witches in that group are. I guarantee you they won't be the ones dressed in black or talking about dancing naked at the next full moon. The real ones will go unnoticed , going about their daily lives and keeping their beliefs sacred and private as has always been the way. Do most tend to have psychic abilities? Probably. Because they are witches? No. But because someone that is in touch with the spiritual side will be drawn towards a belief system that accepts and encourages it. But when people start to go on about their magic and the casting of spells then I would caution them to be very careful with what they are delving into. Just because something is written in an old book or by someone that says they are an “expert” does not make it so.

Ok, so that ended up being a lot longer than I intended. I have a lot of things thrown in there and I hope its coherent. Like I said, these thing are just my opinion but after reading through some of the threads I wanted to give my take on the subject.

skateing dragon

bluewolf wrote:

Yes, you need to join a lineaged coven. You'll have to study with them for a year first though, I think. Outer court stuff

This might help
http://www.witchvox.com/vn/hm/iexx.html

I dont think thats true. I think you can be a solitary practioner! You dont HAVE to join a coven

scorplett

skateing dragon wrote:

I dont think thats true. I think you can be a solitary practioner! You dont HAVE to join a coven

It is widley regarded that wicca is a form of witchcraft that stems from Gerald Gardner (gardinarian) and Alex Sanders (Alexandrian)
These are traditions of witchcraft that place emphasis on clergy. In this regard then yes you do need to be initiated through a liniaged coven to be wiccan.
However, like many words in the english language, the word wiccan is more and more beginning to mean various things to various people. The above brief explanation is the original meaning outside of the prescribed thought on the saxon origins of the word in the first place.
Not everyone who would take initiation through such a coven will continue with group working and may indeed work on a solitary basis. Nonetheless, in order to correctley be wiccan it is widley acknowledged that there be liniaged initiation.

Talliesin

skateing dragon wrote:

I dont think thats true. I think you can be a solitary practioner! You dont HAVE to join a coven

The thing here is what exactly is meant by "Wicca".

Out of laziness I'm going to copy what I wrote for a Wikipedia article elsewhere:

The term "wicca" is well-attested as the Anglo-Saxon word for "[male] witch". In modern usage however it came into the public lexicon with the works of Gerald Gardner, with the spelling "wica". That the term (in either spelling) was used solely for a particular group of witches was generally accepted both by Gardner's initiates and unrelated witches who did not use the word to describe themselves, and in some cases would speak scornfully of the "Wiccans". Indeed the derived word "Wiccan" appears to have been coined by the witch Robert Cochrane who used it derisively.

Initially "The Wica" was used as the term for the group in question. Members of the group where described as "of the Wica", and their religion was merely labelled "The Old Religion". The usage changed to the current trend of referring the the religion and priesthood as "Wicca" and its practitioners as "Wiccan" (used both as a noun and an adjective).

Due to the impact of Gardner, Alex Sanders and their initiatory descendants upon Pagan witchcraft, and possibly due to the term being originally relatively unknown and hence not sharing nuances and preconceptions that "witch" and "witchcraft" have, the term "Wicca" became the term used for almost all Neopagan witchcraft.

This led to three groups using the term in different ways:

1. The New Forest-descended covens were using the term "Wicca" solely to describe themselves.
2. Neopagan Witches were using the term "Wicca" to describe all or nearly all Pagan witches, certainly including themselves as well as the New Forest-descended covens, and often including those witches that disassociated themselves from the term. In many cases arguing that "Wiccan" and "Witch" were synonymous.
3. Some who would label themselves "witches" (some of these also labelling themselves "Pagan", some not) would be aware of the term "Wicca" but, however they understood it, not consider themselves Wiccan.

This difference in definition led to some hostility between the first and second groups. The New Forest-derived covens saw the Neopagan Witches as claiming a name that did not belong to them, but only to "family". The Neopagan Witches saw the New Forest-derived covens' claim to the term as élitist and disparaging of their own paths. As historical hostility between Gardnerians and Alexandrians waned, the differences between them and others using the term "Wicca" became all the more apparant.

The term "British Traditional Witchcraft" was suggested, mainly in the United States, as an uncontroversal label for the New Forest-descended covens, but that term is used in Britain to refer to those traditions, such as Cochrane's, that claim a heritage predating Gardner's publications, but not related to Gardner's groups or recent predecessors of it.

Hence the term "British Traditional Wicca" became the term used to uncontroversally label the New Forest traditions, though they will generally use "Wicca" amongst themselves to refer only to British Traditional Wicca.

In the UK and Ireland there are still plenty of people who use "Wicca" in the first sense. And in this sense you do indeed need to be initiated into a tradition to be Wiccan. With some of the other Pagan traditions of Witchcraft that are sometimes called "Wicca" you do not.

This forum doesn't enforce any rules as to whether Wicca means only the New Forest traditions or if it includes other forms of Pagan Witchcraft, personally I only use it in the first sense myself and don't really see why other Witches should want to use the term (it seems to me that borrowing someone else's clothes both disrespect those traditions, but also their own if they aren't happy to let their own tradition stand on its own feet) but language changes so it's impossible to insist on any particular definition outside of particular communities.

Apparently some lineaged coven recently said you can practice it solitary without having been initiated first and call yourself Wiccan. So that means they're ok to call themselves what they like, or something :?

Marksie

bluewolf wrote:

Yes, you need to join a lineaged coven. You'll have to study with them for a year first though, I think. Outer court stuff

This might help
http://www.witchvox.com/vn/hm/iexx.html

Why? what about solitaries?
I dont have a "fixed" way of doing things. The whole beauty of it to me is that it is intensly personal to me about how i commune.
I did start by assimilatig the "hedge witch" and the "hedge witches way" though, to provide a framework as they had been recommended.

skateing dragon

Ok I read your quote Talliesin but I thought Wicca was a religion descended from Paganism like Druidism. And as i believe in Paganism and Wiccan Ways and i do wish to practice magick does that make me a wiccan witch?

If i were to describe my religion to other people i would say im Wiccan so would i be like the New Foest Group or Neopagan??

Nevyn

It makes you a pagan witch not all witches are pagan.
You are not a Wiccan of the newforest traditions unless you are iniated into thier traditions and mysteries.

So I would say you are a neopagan and a witch.

marksuttonie the only way to be a Wiccan solitary( in the newforest, british traditional witchcraft sense ) as I see it to have initated into one of those traditions and worked with a coven and then moved on for what ever reason.

I would say I am a pagan and a kitchen witch and that I live my life in tune with the truning of the wheel of the year and I honour my Gods.

You don't have to be in a coven to do that or be initated and not being or doing either of those does not make you any less a witch or any less in the service of your Gods or does it lessen your worship of them in thier eyes and that is what counts.

skateing dragon

Ok thanks alot for clearing that up

Lurcher

Hi folks. It's been a long time since I was here but I'm back now. To be Wiccan you must be initiated into a coven that bears direct lineage to either Gardner or Sanders.
Strict adherents to those forms of Wicca will not allow non-initiates into circle except for their initiation. Any learning done before then should not normally include that which is properly done within the circle.
I am an initiated Alexandrian and worked in circle for several years prior to initiation. Anomalies do exist but must be corrected if one is to call oneself Wiccan. In my case it was that I learnt in a coven that insisted on at least a year and a day of in-circle training before initiation/acceptance.
I should probably note at this stage that I do not currently consider myself Wiccan as the magic I practice is solo and non-religious and my Paganism is not eclectic.
Did I just do an intro in the Wiccan thread? Sorry.

Lurcher.

Nevyn

Thats fine honest, always nice to meet even virtually another crafty crafter.

Morganna

skateing dragon wrote: »

I dont think thats true. I think you can be a solitary practioner! You dont HAVE to join a coven

Yes thats true you can be a solitary practicer

Nevyn

Morganna wrote: »

Yes thats true you can be a solitary practicer

Yes and No.

Yes it is possible to be of the Wicca as an initiate currently with out a coven and continue your service to those Gods.

No as there are many rite and acts of worship with in the Wiccan practice at an initiate can not do alone.

chiliconparmi

Hi,

I have been reading a few books on Wicca, I have a few question I hope someone can help me with.

When ever the author talks about a person who follows Wicca he says a witch, is a male who follows Wicca called a Witch as well or is he called something else?

Also do male and female Wiccan's use the same tools ie wand, cauldron etc or are there some that males use and some that females use?

Thanks

Nevyn

Hi there,

Those who are Wiccan are declared Preist/ess and Witch when they are initated.
So yes there are men who are Wiccan and they are witches.

As for magical working tools, from what I have gathered there is no difference.
As for the proscribed ritual use of certain tools by either gender in a coven context when celebrating Wiccan rites, I can't really comment.

Yes certain tools are said to be more masculine or feminine but that's a different topic

Shiminay

Witch is a gender neutral term, so it applies to male and female.

As for tools, I've not come across any difference in that regards, but there may be cause for different ceremonies etc to require that one gender or another would use the tools needed.

NeilJ

top_cat13_2000 wrote: »

hey guys i was just wondering is Wicca popular in ireland? Im very interested in it but i dont know where to start. Do i need to join a coven first? Im living in Galway

There is a regular moot in Galway where you might be able to meet other Pagans from that part of the country who could point you in the right direction. They meet on the fourth sunday of the month from 7-9 at The Cottage Bar, Lower Salthill

Hugo Drax

Dyflin wrote: »

Just a heads up for any who are interested;



http://www.rte.ie/tv/wouldyoubelieve/

What is the Alexandrian tradition?

Nerin

Hugo Drax wrote: »

What is the Alexandrian tradition?

Just a branch of wicca. Think catholic and protestant. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wiccan_traditions

Nevyn

Hugo Drax wrote: »

What is the Alexandrian tradition?

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=ukgb2&c=trads&id=12676

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandrian_Wicca

Alexandrian Wicca is a tradition of the Neopagan religion of Wicca, founded by Alex Sanders (also known as "King of the Witches"[1]) who, with his wife Maxine Sanders, established the tradition in the United Kingdom in the 1960s. Alexandrian Wicca is similar in many ways to Gardnerian Wicca, and receives regular mention in books on Wicca as one of the religion's most widely-recognized traditions.[2]

It is the second oldest tradition in Wicca and would be the most wide spread.

Hugo Drax

Nerin wrote: »

Just a branch of wicca. Think catholic and protestant. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wiccan_traditions

Are you familiar with Crom Cruach?

Hugo Drax

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=ukgb2&c=trads&id=12676

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandrian_Wicca



It is the second oldest tradition in Wicca and would be the most wide spread.

I thought it was named after "Alex" Sanders, but it's actually named after the lost library of Alexandria which I've certainly heard of.

Interesting.

Nevyn

Nerin wrote: »

Just a branch of wicca. Think catholic and protestant. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wiccan_traditions

That article really is misleading and that is not how Wicca is defined on this forum.

Nevyn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandrian_Wicca#Origins_and_history

The name of the tradition is a reference both to Alex Sanders and to the ancient occult library of Alexandria, which was one of the first libraries in the world.[4][3] The choice of name was inspired by a view of the library as an early attempt to bring together the knowledge and wisdom of the world into one place.[5] Maxine Sanders recalls that the name was chosen when Stewart Farrar, a student of the Sanders', began to write What Witches Do. "Stewart asked what Witches who were initiated via our Covens should be called; after much discussion, he came up with "Alexandrian" which both Alex and I rather liked. Before this time we were very happy to be called Witches".[6]

As you can see it's a bit of both and all Alexandrian's trace their lineage back to Alex Sander, the same way all Gardnerians trace their lineage back to Gerald Gardner.

Hugo Drax

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandrian_Wicca#Origins_and_history



As you can see it's a bit of both and all Alexandrian's trace their lineage back to Alex Sander, the same way all Gardnerians trace their lineage back to Gerald Gardner.

So do Wiccans worship the old pre-Christian Irish gods like Crom Cruach or Lu?

Nevyn

Hugo Drax wrote: »

So do Wiccans worship the old pre-Christian Irish gods like Crom Cruach or Lu?

Wiccan's wont 'worship' Gods they work with Them and have a relationship with Them. The Gods of the Wicca are a God and Goddess.
That does not how ever preclude those who are Wiccan working with other Gods if and when it is appropriate.

Hugo Drax

Thaedydal wrote: »

Wiccan's wont 'worship' Gods they work with Them and have a relationship with Them. The Gods of the Wicca are a God and Goddess.
That does not how ever preclude those who are Wiccan working with other Gods if and when it is appropriate.

Apologies, Thaedydal, I didn't know that!

It's just an interesting topic to me.

Who are the God/Godess of Wicca?

What would be your view of pre-christian Irish gods, do they have validity or status in Wicca?

I suppose what I'm asking is, is there a Celtic dimension to Wicca?

Nerin

Hugo Drax wrote: »

So do Wiccans worship the old pre-Christian Irish gods like Crom Cruach or Lu?

It depends on the individuals to be honest. There is no be all and end all,even in a trad. People will claim to be part of a trad but bring little things in and out of it. There are some people who will follow one way to the letter or there are those that are very free flowing with interpretations. Just like anything really.

Hugo Drax

Nerin wrote: »

It depends on the individuals to be honest. There is no be all and end all,even in a trad. People will claim to be part of a trad but bring little things in and out of it. There are some people who will follow one way to the letter or there are those that are very free flowing with interpretations. Just like anything really.

Certainly a different approach to religion though, rather than the rigid orthodoxy imposed by the mainstream Churches

Nerin

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Certainly a different approach to religion though, rather than the rigid orthodoxy imposed by the mainstream Churches

Well it is and it isn't. Remember,its still humans involved in all this,so egos and mistakes are never far behind. You can have very loose liberal "hippy drippy" christian groups as well as ultra right groups too. Same can happen in the wiccan world. Take Gardner for example, two very close friends of mine when i was growing up were on the opposite sides in opinions of him. One thought him a genius,the other that he was full of it. While wicca is more open and liberal than some other faiths, you will come across vast differences of opinion and thought

Nevyn

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Apologies, Thaedydal, I didn't know that!

It's just an interesting topic to me.

Oh I'm not offended at all.

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Who are the God/Godess of Wicca?

That I can't answer, sorry but it's one of the things which is Oath bound.
If a person is called to Wicca then they get to know them.

Hugo Drax wrote: »

What would be your view of pre-christian Irish gods, do they have validity or status in Wicca?

What do you mean by validity?
Gods are Gods, some Gods I have no dealings with and they have no impact on me in my life and they are Gods even if they are not my Gods.

Hugo Drax wrote: »

I suppose what I'm asking is, is there a Celtic dimension to Wicca?

What do you mean by Celtic/celtic?

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Certainly a different approach to religion though, rather than the rigid orthodoxy imposed by the mainstream Churches

There is no orthodoxy in Wicca, but there is orthopraxy.

Hugo Drax

Nerin wrote: »

Well it is and it isn't. Remember,its still humans involved in all this,so egos and mistakes are never far behind. You can have very loose liberal "hippy drippy" christian groups as well as ultra right groups too. Same can happen in the wiccan world. Take Gardner for example, two very close friends of mine when i was growing up were on the opposite sides in opinions of him. One thought him a genius,the other that he was full of it. While wicca is more open and liberal than some other faiths, you will come across vast differences of opinion and thought

Well it seems that any religion established by humans, will at some point diverge into opposite camps who both believe they are the true keepers of the faith!

Hugo Drax

Thaedydal wrote: »

Oh I'm not offended at all.



That I can't answer, sorry but it's one of the things which is Oath bound.
If a person is called to Wicca then they get to know them.



What do you mean by validity?
Gods are Gods, some Gods I have no dealings with and they have no impact on me in my life and they are Gods even if they are not my Gods.



What do you mean by Celtic/celtic?



There is no orthodoxy in Wicca, but there is orthopraxy.

Well I can respect an oath, I had heard of a Horned God or some such but I'll have to wait I guess!

By validity I mean are they part of the pantheon of pagan Gods, eg, Hindu Gods have no validity in Catholicism obviously....do you believe in them for want of a better word?

By Celtic I mean the indiginous Gaelic culture of this island and parts of the neighbouring one, dating back thousands of years....

Othopraxy?

Nerin

There are striking similarities between many cultures and their gods,it would boil down in most cases to personal preferences. Celtic faith is present in wicca, through festivals and themes. Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Celtic gods would be fairly popular. One could refer to the horned male god aspect as Cernunnos,Pan,etc etc

Nevyn

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Well I can respect an oath, I had heard of a Horned God or some such but I'll have to wait I guess!

By validity I mean are they part of the pantheon of pagan Gods, eg, Hindu Gods have no validity in Catholicism obviously....do you believe in them for want of a better word?

There is no generic pantheon of pagan Gods, each pantheon comes from a certain culture. Personally I think mixing and matching gods from different pantheons and cultures to be not a wise thing to do.

The Judaic religions hold that there is only one God and others are not "valid".
They may be not "valid" for those of that religion but that does not mean those who are not members/followers of the Judaic religions view this in the same way.

Personally I don't believe in Gods, I don't need to, they exist with me believing in them.
Do I acknowledge that there are many different Gods? Yes.
Do I worship any of them? No.
Do I work with some of them? Yes.

Hugo Drax wrote: »

By Celtic I mean the indiginous Gaelic culture of this island and parts of the neighbouring one, dating back thousands of years....

I would say that Celtic and Gaelic are two different things and that the Celts
weren't indigenous to here to begin with. The Celts were a collection of very different tribes with their own culture which all originated in central Europe and arrived in one of the many waves of invaders as chronically in the book of invasions.

Wicca comes from the New forest area in southern England.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Forest_coven

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Othopraxy?

Right action rather then right thinking.
Wicca is an initiatory mystery tradition, when a person under goes the rites in the proper manner through orthopraxy they are exposed to certain experiences and undergoing them is part of under going the mysteries.
People undergoing the mystery s properly will lead them to know and think in a certain way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthopraxy#Neopaganism

British Traditional Wicca is highly orthopraxic, with "traditions" (as denominations in Wicca are called) being precisely that - defined by what is traditionally done, rather than shared beliefs.

Urizen

Nerin wrote: »

Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Celtic gods would be fairly popular

This always rankles a bit with me. If you worship Greek Gods, as I do, you're a Hellenic Pagan. Same with Egyptian and Celtic, etc.

In fairness, it's a vary mild annoyance, the snob in me. Just putting it out there.

This seems the place to voice opinions. I'm pretty sure you'll agree that Wicca, of all the Neo-Pagan beliefs, tends to get the most... well, posers. People doing it because it's cool or popular or what have you. I'm wondering, how do the Wiccans here deal with it? Because, again, it'd drive me mad. Just 'live and let live'?
In that case, what about when they actively lie about it. Examples I've heard include 'I'm Wiccan. Oh, you're Hellenic Pagan? Same thing.', 'I'm Wiccan. I worship Satan.' or my personal favorite 'Wicca is over 5000 years old.'

I don't mean to offend anyone with this. Hell, it offends me, I want to know if I'm alone in that.

Nevyn

No you are not alone.

The word has been co opted and mis appropriated and most of that happened in america and was proliferated by a certain publishing house who used the word as interchangeable for witch and witchcraft.

Which I have found to be a pretty good litmus test if someone says they are wiccan I will say oh your a witch and if they reject the word witch then they are not.
As to if I will get into wrangling with them or not it depends on if I would be wasting my breath or just making myself narky, I am not always someone else's learning curve.

As for those who claim to be of a certain rank in a certain tradition, the world is a small place and the internet makes it even smaller. Such a thing should not be needed unless you are looking to work with or train with a person and there are ways of finding out if someone is vouched for.

And just because a person has a rank with in a tradition tbh it mean diddysquat outside of it and certainly confers no authority over those who are not members of their tradition.

Hugo Drax

Thaedydal wrote: »

There is no generic pantheon of pagan Gods, each pantheon comes from a certain culture. Personally I think mixing and matching gods from different pantheons and cultures to be not a wise thing to do.

The Judaic religions hold that there is only one God and others are not "valid".
They may be not "valid" for those of that religion but that does not mean those who are not members/followers of the Judaic religions view this in the same way.

Personally I don't believe in Gods, I don't need to, they exist with me believing in them.
Do I acknowledge that there are many different Gods? Yes.
Do I worship any of them? No.
Do I work with some of them? Yes.



I would say that Celtic and Gaelic are two different things and that the Celts
weren't indigenous to here to begin with. The Celts were a collection of very different tribes with their own culture which all originated in central Europe and arrived in one of the many waves of invaders as chronically in the book of invasions.

Wicca comes from the New forest area in southern England.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Forest_coven



Right action rather then right thinking.
Wicca is an initiatory mystery tradition, when a person under goes the rites in the proper manner through orthopraxy they are exposed to certain experiences and undergoing them is part of under going the mysteries.
People undergoing the mystery s properly will lead them to know and think in a certain way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthopraxy#Neopaganism

Any connection to the old Mithradatic religions?

Hugo Drax

Thaedydal wrote: »

No you are not alone.

The word has been co opted and mis appropriated and most of that happened in america and was proliferated by a certain publishing house who used the word as interchangeable for witch and witchcraft.

Which I have found to be a pretty good litmus test if someone says they are wiccan I will say oh your a witch and if they reject the word witch then they are not.
As to if I will get into wrangling with them or not it depends on if I would be wasting my breath or just making myself narky, I am not always someone else's learning curve.

As for those who claim to be of a certain rank in a certain tradition, the world is a small place and the internet makes it even smaller. Such a thing should not be needed unless you are looking to work with or train with a person and there are ways of finding out if someone is vouched for.

And just because a person has a rank with in a tradition tbh it mean diddysquat outside of it and certainly confers no authority over those who are not members of their tradition.

How did you encounter this religion and join it?

Accidently?

Through college?

Consciously sought out and studied?

Just out of curiosity....

Nevyn

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Any connection to the old Mithradatic religions?

In what way?

Hugo Drax wrote: »

How did you encounter this religion and join it?

By meeting members of it while getting more invovled in my local pagan community.

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Through college?

No there wasn't a pagan soc in the college back then.

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Consciously sought out and studied?

Eventually yes, but I was seeking something, I had left the catholic church and was looking for what filled my own spiritual cup and read and researched a lot into a lot different religions and worked on developing a personal spiritual practice and a way of living my life which worked for me.

I resisted having anything to do what what I perceived as Wicca for a very long time as most of what I read was witchcraft dumb down or pre masticated in the books which seemed to be in most bookshops.
But in the end it's what I was called to and once I started reading the right books starting with Gerald Gardeners own publications I found a lot less fluff.

There is a thread in this forum with a list of books which are pretty good in you are interested.

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Just out of curiosity....

Curiosity is a wonderful and dangerous thing, may yours lead you to intresting places.

Moonspell

Urizen wrote: »

This always rankles a bit with me. If you worship Greek Gods, as I do, you're a Hellenic Pagan. Same with Egyptian and Celtic, etc.
In fairness, it's a vary mild annoyance, the snob in me. Just putting it out there.
This seems the place to voice opinions. I'm pretty sure you'll agree that Wicca, of all the Neo-Pagan beliefs, tends to get the most... well, posers. People doing it because it's cool or popular or what have you. I'm wondering, how do the Wiccans here deal with it? Because, again, it'd drive me mad. Just 'live and let live'?
In that case, what about when they actively lie about it. Examples I've heard include 'I'm Wiccan. Oh, you're Hellenic Pagan? Same thing.', 'I'm Wiccan. I worship Satan.' or my personal favorite 'Wicca is over 5000 years old.'
I don't mean to offend anyone with this. Hell, it offends me, I want to know if I'm alone in that.

Yes, it is annoying to see how wrongly the word can be used. I wouldn't go as far as saying offensive, but that might depend of what is being said as well. But then, I have been far more offended by people from my own tradition, so...

Thaedydal wrote: »

No you are not alone.
As for those who claim to be of a certain rank in a certain tradition, the world is a small place and the internet makes it even smaller. Such a thing should not be needed unless you are looking to work with or train with a person and there are ways of finding out if someone is vouched for.

And just because a person has a rank with in a tradition tbh it mean diddysquat outside of it and certainly confers no authority over those who are not members of their tradition.

Even within the tradition, the fact that one has attain a certain rank does not mean that can be used, or misused for own gain, as unfortunately so often happens.

Nevyn

There is also the fact that while a person maybe of a certain tradition, Coven's are also autonomous. Each doing their own thing as the Gods intend.

As for failings out, they do happen.
Those who are initiated into the priesthood of Wicca become brother and sister onto each other and frankly no one fights like family does, but we are all human and works in progress, learning what lessons we can.

saoirseanam

bluewolf wrote: »

Yes, you need to join a lineaged coven. You'll have to study with them for a year first though, I think. Outer court stuff

This might help
http://www.witchvox.com/vn/hm/iexx.html

you don't need to join a lineaged coven. Ever heard of Eclectic Wicca?

Nevyn

Ever heard of an oxymoron?