Pro Evolution 4 - bitterly disappointed

Ardent

I rented out PES 3 for a couple of nights a couple of years ago and I didn't like it. Despite that, I shelled out my hard earned cash on PES 4 due to some of the comments of the good people on this forum. I've been playing it for weeks now and I have to say I've never played a game that frustrates me like PES. I hate certain aspects of it, for example:

* In a two player game, the whole game can be dominated/spoiled by niggly fouls which will NEVER result in a booking for persistent fouling.

* Your forwards often get caught offside yet you never know until the whistle is blown because they are off the screen when you play the pass.

* The players turn like tanks and trying to control them is a very sluggish, frustrating experience.

* Passes more often than not do not go to the player you intended them to.

* You can have the ball in midfield and your whole midfield will stand around looking at you rather than make intelligent forward runs.

There lots of other things like strange decisions in the game but the above examples are my main gripes. In short, PES does some great things but there are many flaws in the game that detract from it. I'm sure there's lots of depth to the game but if you can't get to grips with a game within a couple of weeks of shelling out good money on it, well then it's not a very good game. It's easy to to understand why FIFA outsells PES.

I won't be playing it again because, most importantly, I don't find it an enjoyable experience - who seriously wants to play a game that puts you in a bad mood?

I tried guys, sorry, the game is not for me. I think I'll stay away from the football pitch and go back to the safety of the dugout in FM2005.

Jammer

Ardent wrote:

* In a two player game, the whole game can be dominated/spoiled by niggly fouls which will NEVER result in a booking for persistent fouling.

Just like real football

Ardent wrote:

* Your forwards often get caught offside yet you never know until the whistle is blown because they are off the screen when you play the pass.

This can be a bit annoying

Ardent wrote:

* The players turn like tanks and trying to control them is a very sluggish, frustrating experience.

Take your finger off sprint. Sorted.

Ardent wrote:

* Passes more often than not do not go to the player you intended them to.

Its not auotmatic like fifa, you have to semi-aim it, and be on balance to get a perfect pass.

Ardent wrote:

* You can have the ball in midfield and your whole midfield will stand around looking at you rather than make intelligent forward runs.

I find if you use through ball pass they run into space

I was very much a FIFA fan untill about 3wks ago, i much prefer PES now as its alot less automatic, and requires more skill to actually play. There can be some well dodgey decisions for off sides/corners/fouls but it adds to the realism. Playing advantage, and letting the strike score and celebrate only to call offside is genius. I dunno how many times ive been in golden goal xtra time and have my player celebrate only to be called back for offside!

It took me a couple of days to get used to PES but i think it is better then FIFA, more interactive..players dont always take the ball the same way, use the same animations etc etc

Big Ears

you know when a player is offside by looking at the radar , and im sorry to tell you..............but a lot of your complaints seem to be you not being very good at the game . FIFA outsells Pro Evo because more people know of it , and a lot of people have never played another soccer game , and don't want to risk their cash on a game they are afraid of being useless . Oh and please don't tell me you think FIFA's better .

Most people I know that have played a lot of both series agree that Pro Evo is better but takes more time to settle into .

Tusky

Ardent wrote:

I rented out PES 3 for a couple of nights a couple of years ago and I didn't like it. Despite that, I shelled out my hard earned cash on PES 4 due to some of the comments of the good people on this forum. I've been playing it for weeks now and I have to say I've never played a game that frustrates me like PES. I hate certain aspects of it, for example:

* In a two player game, the whole game can be dominated/spoiled by niggly fouls which will NEVER result in a booking for persistent fouling.

* Your forwards often get caught offside yet you never know until the whistle is blown because they are off the screen when you play the pass.

* The players turn like tanks and trying to control them is a very sluggish, frustrating experience.

* Passes more often than not do not go to the player you intended them to.

* You can have the ball in midfield and your whole midfield will stand around looking at you rather than make intelligent forward runs.

There lots of other things like strange decisions in the game but the above examples are my main gripes. In short, PES does some great things but there are many flaws in the game that detract from it. I'm sure there's lots of depth to the game but if you can't get to grips with a game within a couple of weeks of shelling out good money on it, well then it's not a very good game. It's easy to to understand why FIFA outsells PES.

I won't be playing it again because, most importantly, I don't find it an enjoyable experience - who seriously wants to play a game that puts you in a bad mood?

I tried guys, sorry, the game is not for me. I think I'll stay away from the football pitch and go back to the safety of the dugout in FM2005.

You must be crap at it - Fifa is easy to play...good for small children or people who arent good at computer games.

I do agree with you with one thing though...the game can be frustrating..but cant real football too ? its very realistic.

4000Holes

* In a two player game, the whole game can be dominated/spoiled by niggly fouls which will NEVER result in a booking for persistent fouling.

Don'y play with people who are dirty then...That happens in real football as well, some teams do that, some don't,

* Your forwards often get caught offside yet you never know until the whistle is blown because they are off the screen when you play the pass.

Use the radar...or switch to a wider view.

* The players turn like tanks and trying to control them is a very sluggish, frustrating experience.

As said...don't sprint. You can't simply runa dnexpect to turn someone. You can do it in certain situations, with certain players. Just like real football in fact...

* Passes more often than not do not go to the player you intended them to.

Reeks of incompetence more than anything >_>

* You can have the ball in midfield and your whole midfield will stand around looking at you rather than make intelligent forward runs.

Players don't just blindly run forward...you have to jink around and create some space. Oh, and check their settings for forwards runs and stuff like that.

cormie

For offside annoyance, switch to viewpoint wide and use radar

Ardent

I don't want this to get in to a FIFA vs PES debate - that's not what I'm discussing here. Just the short comings as I see them in PES.

Niggly fouls do occur in real life, that's obvious, but a player will eventually get booked for persistent fouling. I feel this is something that's painfully lacking in PES and it's inclusion would dissuade players from madly pressing x when not in possession of the ball.

As for the slow turning players, maybe I should have pointed that I find this to be the case even when not sprinting, even when holding down L1 or pressing R2 for example.

As for my incompetence at the game, cheers. I always thought I was I good at these type of games but for some reason I find the players hard to control, the control system in the game seems a bit dodgy to me.

Probably my main gripe is the niggly foul thing - these kind of games are supposed to come in to their own in a two player environment. My mate has two tactics - keep trying though balls until one sticks and then foul for the rest of the game. Has no-one else encountered the frustration of trying to claw back a goal and not getting many opportunities because of consistent fouling?

More gripes:

* The through ball - for a game that's reported to be an accurate representation of the beautiful game, this is a load of bollocks. You can't play 20 yard though balls to spilt a world class defence in real life, TIME AFTER TIME.

* Free kicks are annoying as well - the ball will either hit the wall or fly over the bar. There never seems to be any in between.

* Penalties are a joke as well - you'll randomly slice the ball well wide even though you took an easy shot.

Lots of improvements required before it's the greatest-footy-game-in-the-world.

heggie

seriously, you need to learn the game. Free kicks are hard - do the training, penalties work fine for me, I think its probably that you havnt adapted coming from fifa, where u hold down the shoot buttons etc to make a more powerful shot, doesnt work like this in pes

Makaveli

If your mate keeps fouling you stop running the ball.
If you keep passing you create space, he wont get close enough to you to foul you. If all else fails give him a dig in the arm and tell him to cop on to himself, he's obviously crap if all he does is foul you. My little sister doesn't even do that.

Boro

In the Formation Settings, If you change the Team stance to Auto Attacking instead of Normal, then players (esp midfield) run ahead of the ball a lot more often. Leaves you wide open for a counter though so be warned.

Admittedly the games not for everyone. At least you tried it unlike so many others. Fair play for giving it a lash anyway, but I reckon that if you could get a better 'sparring' partner, you might enjoy it more. So much of this game unfolds in stages - there is so much in this game, that even the few niggly things can be disregarded.

KdjaCL

Put on hard ref and watch it become 11 10 9 8 a side very quickly.
Thou shall not cross halfway line is a tactic used by many here , annoying but if you clever you can get them sent off quickly.

Rest of the flaws you mention do stem from not being good at it , Hold in L2 and hit each button for a tactic which will move players where you want them.

kdjac

Headshot

its a brilliant game way better than fifa any day

PHB

* The through ball - for a game that's reported to be an accurate representation of the beautiful game, this is a load of bollocks. You can't play 20 yard though balls to spilt a world class defence in real life, TIME AFTER TIME.

Its because you are player against a human who takes control of the defender and ****s up the defense.
Play against 6 star computer and none of your through balls will get through unless they are perfect.
Its because the person you play against takes control of the player and messes up defending.

* Free kicks are annoying as well - the ball will either hit the wall or fly over the bar. There never seems to be any in between.

Practice


* Penalties are a joke as well - you'll randomly slice the ball well wide even though you took an easy shot.

Its penalties.
In real life there are not about skill, they are about luck and mentality.
Some players have the ability to score penos and they rarely ever miss, like Van Nist in the game has never missed a peno for me.

Also if you don't like the niggy fouling, put a hard ref on

LegacyUser

Ardent wrote:

I don't want this to get in to a FIFA vs PES debate - that's not what I'm discussing here. Just the short comings as I see them in PES.

Niggly fouls do occur in real life, that's obvious, but a player will eventually get booked for persistent fouling. I feel this is something that's painfully lacking in PES and it's inclusion would dissuade players from madly pressing x when not in possession of the ball.

As for the slow turning players, maybe I should have pointed that I find this to be the case even when not sprinting, even when holding down L1 or pressing R2 for example.

As for my incompetence at the game, cheers. I always thought I was I good at these type of games but for some reason I find the players hard to control, the control system in the game seems a bit dodgy to me.

Probably my main gripe is the niggly foul thing - these kind of games are supposed to come in to their own in a two player environment. My mate has two tactics - keep trying though balls until one sticks and then foul for the rest of the game. Has no-one else encountered the frustration of trying to claw back a goal and not getting many opportunities because of consistent fouling?

More gripes:

* The through ball - for a game that's reported to be an accurate representation of the beautiful game, this is a load of bollocks. You can't play 20 yard though balls to spilt a world class defence in real life, TIME AFTER TIME.

* Free kicks are annoying as well - the ball will either hit the wall or fly over the bar. There never seems to be any in between.

* Penalties are a joke as well - you'll randomly slice the ball well wide even though you took an easy shot.

Lots of improvements required before it's the greatest-footy-game-in-the-world.

You are quite clearly totally rubbish at the game. But deep down, you probably know that. If you gave the game any time at all, you would understand this. It is frustrating when you suck.

My example of the game being ultra realistic is pretty simple. I used to have Guli playing as far up on the right hand side as possible. I would give the ball to Deco in midfield and chip through ball to him time after time...he was getting loads of space and got something like 7 assists in 10 games...as the season went on in my la liga on 5 stars. I am unbeaten, drawn 13, 3'rd in table something like 9 points behing Real Madrid and Valencia and Guli is marked out of it every single game I play. His assists are now at 12...but considering that in the first ten games he had 7 assists, and now 27 games in , he only has 12 assists...getting 4 assists in 17 games is not very good. Why? Cos the computer targeted him and man marked the **** out of him. He even gets hacked to bits now and goes off regularly. I have had to totally change my tactics to get around this, I can not play with the standard Ronaldinho in the hole cos they get two men on him at all time. They limited all my options and I have had to get very creative tactically to stop myself from drawing repeatedly. It pisses me off so much but its amazing how realistic this game is. Amazingly so actually.

Makaveli

Giuly does get hacked to bits, and because he's so injury prone he always gets injured. I've noticed when playing with Barca, the computer really goes for your player in the wide right position. Eto'o gets lumps taken out of him too when I play him out there.

Tusky

I find this hilarious ! Your basically moaning because your no good at the game. As for the free kicks - im not great at them...rarely score... A friend of mine however scores at least 1 in every 4. Do you know about R1 and R2 up down left & right for free kicks and what they do ?

As for the through balls - this doesnt happen when you play against the computer - its because you or the person your playing is not controlling the defence properly, most likely running towards the ball leaving room for a through ball.

penos - just like in real football are mainly about luck - except if you have a really good stroker like raul or henry who will score almost every time.

fouls - put on a tough ref and he will book more.

Stick with the game - it does take a looong time to get good at but when you do it really is rewarding because it feels like rela football and takes alotta skill.

LegacyUser

Makaveli wrote:

Giuly does get hacked to bits, and because he's so injury prone he always gets injured. I've noticed when playing with Barca, the computer really goes for your player in the wide right position. Eto'o gets lumps taken out of him too when I play him out there.

That is exactly what I am talking about!!!!! It is so annoying. All my key players get hacked namely Guily and Deco. Ronaldinho just suffers from extreme fatigue cos I never take him off, he is too good!

cournioni

A neat little trick I learned for the free kicks is if you are 25 yards out or so, aim for the smallest player in the wall. Hold the shoot button down until the shot bar is 1/3 full or 3/4 full on the half bar (whatever you wish to call it).

Then when the player is running up to take it hold the left analog down (don't press it, direct it down), this will put downspin on the ball. The ball will dip over the wall and hopefully (if you have your direction right) into the back of the net.

Big Ears

Heres a free-kick tip I figuired out . when 25-22 yards out , and to one side (can't work while in the centre) using a player who is the same footed as the place your trying to hit the ball to(right footed if your aiming for the right side of the goal) hold forward and shoot with almost half power , just a tiny bit less than it , and you will score if you get it right a huge amount of the time , especially if the free-kick taker is Beckham .

Ardent

Big Ears wrote:

...hold forward and shoot with almost half power , just a tiny bit less than it , and you will score if you get it right a huge amount of the time , especially if the free-kick taker is Beckham .

After moaning about free-kicks in the game, I scored one exactly like this last night.

I'm still having problems controlling the players and shooting/passing in the direction I want, it's a bit of a struggle at times, I think it may be controller I'm using. Anyone else playing the PC version of this game and using a PS2 controller, PS2 -> USB adapter and with "analog" turned on on the controller?

cournioni

It could have something to do with the quality or maybe even form of your players. I sometimes find it hard to control the ball when some of my players are off form (as is shown by the arrows when you are selecting your team and you press R1).

No doubt you probably know this already, but I thought I'd point it out to you just in case.

Ardent

Not playing a league, just 2 player exhibition matches.

Another q: how do you turn on hard ref? I see a list of refs prior to starting an exhibition match, the default selection is random. Is there a particular ref who's card happy?

cournioni

Alot of the players usually have poor form for exhibition matches. Replace them with someone who is on better form on the bench.

I'm not sure about the refs, tbh. I usually have the refs on random so I don't really know (or care about) who is who. I'm sure there are some refs that are card prone and some not so prone to showing cards on it. Just keep looking through them.

Makaveli

Big Ears wrote:

Heres a free-kick tip I figuired out . when 25-22 yards out , and to one side (can't work while in the centre) using a player who is the same footed as the place your trying to hit the ball to(right footed if your aiming for the right side of the goal) hold forward and shoot with almost half power , just a tiny bit less than it , and you will score if you get it right a huge amount of the time , especially if the free-kick taker is Beckham .

Without holding any shoulder buttons or anything?
Must try that, the closest I got to scoring was when Adriano nearly broke the crossbar (has has shot power of 99).
Pro Ev 2 all you had to do was the above except hold down instead of up and you could just loft the ball into the goal, if it was going to high L1 would bring it down, can't get it to work in 4 though. They just make free kick taking progressively harder in these games.

Headshot

Makaveli wrote:

Without holding any shoulder buttons or anything?
Must try that, the closest I got to scoring was when Adriano nearly broke the crossbar (has has shot power of 99).
Pro Ev 2 all you had to do was the above except hold down instead of up and you could just loft the ball into the goal, if it was going to high L1 would bring it down, can't get it to work in 4 though. They just make free kick taking progressively harder in these games.

hey Makaveli have you tried curling it

your straight in front of the goals aim to outside of the right post just keep pressing the direction pad to the left and hopefully ull have scored works for me anyway



i also have a manual which help with pro evo 4 help ya buy the best players etc [got it out out a ps2 magazine] if any ones interested just pm me its very handy

Big Ears

Makaveli wrote:

Without holding any shoulder buttons or anything?
Must try that, the closest I got to scoring was when Adriano nearly broke the crossbar (has has shot power of 99).
Pro Ev 2 all you had to do was the above except hold down instead of up and you could just loft the ball into the goal, if it was going to high L1 would bring it down, can't get it to work in 4 though. They just make free kick taking progressively harder in these games.

no no shoulder buttons needed .

KdjaCL

Hard ref is blonde lad.

kdjac

cournioni

Big Ears wrote:

no no shoulder buttons needed .

Scored a beauty with a free kick from Nakata against Man Utd there yesterday. 29 yards out, right in the top left hand corner. Howard no chance!

Cannibal Ox

Hard ref is blonde lad.

Is that (real life ref) tubby Swedish guy?
Can't remember his name but I wouldn't mind finding out, mate has a habit of foulling when he's winning :rolleyes:

Headshot

lads can any one give me a tip on defending

i was going good but i just dont know whats happening at all these past few days

so any tips

Makaveli

Don't use slide tackle unless you feel you have to. X works much better, and you can usually hassle players off the ball.

With the PS2 you can use square to close down players, handy but dangerous. It can lead to both centre-halves closing down the one player meaning the other forward goes unmarked. Also against a team that can counter-attack very quickly (eg Real Madrid) it can leave you overly exposed, so use with caution.

Try to be first to every ball, so if a pass comes from midfield be sure to rush out to it, alot of the time you will beat the forward to it and if you don't at least you will close down the attacker quickly. Be careful though, don't use sprint (R1) to rush, because that works as dummy too, so you could (and it has happened to me) let the ball go past you leaving the attacker through.

Finally don't be afraid to bring the keeper out. I've saved my own ass alot of times by rushing the keeper out. Of course there are obvious risks to this, subject to being lobbed, skinned and side-stepped. Get it right though and you'll clear the danger. I use slide tackle with the goalie, I've never fouled doing it and often you get a lucky bounce that goes away from the goal and advancing oposition.

Remember defence starts with your forwards. Always look to hassle and close down the opposition. If you close down the defenders quickly with your forwards they'll often knock the ball out for a throw.

Oh I finally scored my first free kick, yay. In fact right after I scored it, I was fouled again in the exact same position and I banged that one in too. I was fouled on the right hand side of the box, right on the very edge. With Gio van Bronckhorst I whipped it around the two man wall and into the top right hand corner. About bloody time.
Went to about 1/4 of the way on the bar and held R1 and up and right on the d-pad. Keeper didn't stand a chance on either free kick.

Big Ears

Although I don't do this myself(much) , if you have a problem with tackling there is always 'smart' fouling : purposly bringing players down with X button when in danger . You also get a caution tackle with pretty much every player , so you can afford to bring down a player with slide tackle ever so often if they get into a dangerous position , just try to makesure you don't slide from behind .The defenders are always favourite to win the ball from free-kicks , so remember this when your fouling , and unless your dead sure someones going to score never bring them down in the area , and even then make sure you won't be getting a red card in doing so , you would be better off letting it in .

and if the blond ref is set on , ignore all of this advice , or otherwise you may have a couple of people sent off .

Makaveli

Yeah, must admit I have cynically taken out a few forwards when they get past me, and I rarely get sent off for it, sometimes I don't even get booked.
On the flipside of that, I've made some perfect last ditch slide tackles, where all I've gotten is the ball but been sent off for it.
Oh the joys of pro ev, and actually now that I think of it, what is the story with frees going against you when you have the ball? That one wrecks my head.

d22ontour

PHB wrote:

* The through ball - for a game that's reported to be an accurate representation of the beautiful game, this is a load of bollocks. You can't play 20 yard though balls to spilt a world class defence in real life, TIME AFTER TIME.

what are u talking about like u would be attacking a world class defence time after time in real life any team with a defence like that it would be hard enough getting the ball off them do world class defences hoof it back to the opposition not at all

Big Ears

Makaveli wrote:

what is the story with frees going against you when you have the ball? That one wrecks my head.

Have you ever given a free away for fouling a player by just running into him without pressing/holding X , well despite only running into him you pushed him , except when you give a free away while you have the ball it is just as they have gone in for the tackle , won the ball and you have run into them very quickly .(note this won't happen while not running)

PHB

I was quoting someone else

Headshot

i play on the xbox you see when ever i pressure them the other team they fall to the ground and get a free kick

and my players are attracted to the ball they dont mark

any tip for the above

Headshot

Makaveli wrote:

=
Oh I finally scored my first free kick, yay. In fact right after I scored it, I was fouled again in the exact same position and I banged that one in too. I was fouled on the right hand side of the box, right on the very edge. With Gio van Bronckhorst I whipped it around the two man wall and into the top right hand corner. About bloody time.
Went to about 1/4 of the way on the bar and held R1 and up and right on the d-pad. Keeper didn't stand a chance on either free kick.

about time took ya long enough

Headshot

ahh man, 60 seconds a go i scored some free Kick with deco it was 35m out the goalie had no chance


stuff like that make pro evo 4 one of thy all greats Soccer games

Makaveli

Big Ears wrote:

Have you ever given a free away for fouling a player by just running into him without pressing/holding X , well despite only running into him you pushed him , except when you give a free away while you have the ball it is just as they have gone in for the tackle , won the ball and you have run into them very quickly .(note this won't happen while not running)

That has happened but often they are behind me and run into the back of me and win a free. It's all a bit bogey really, and half the time the scenario you described occurs they foul me with their tackle yet they get the free. Usually happens in their box and it's a real smash the control pad off the wall in frustration situation.


On the freekick front again, it seems I can only score with Gio now. Scored two more since, one was pretty much carbon copy of the first two except I curled it into the far post and the other was about 25 yards out that I whipped into the top right corner. Swish.

PHB

and my players are attracted to the ball they dont mark

Man Marking

Big Ears

Makaveli wrote:

That has happened but often they are behind me and run into the back of me and win a free. It's all a bit bogey really, and half the time the scenario you described occurs they foul me with their tackle yet they get the free. Usually happens in their box and it's a real smash the control pad off the wall in frustration situation.


On the freekick front again, it seems I can only score with Gio now. Scored two more since, one was pretty much carbon copy of the first two except I curled it into the far post and the other was about 25 yards out that I whipped into the top right corner. Swish.

right after I said that I played a game and remebered that frees can be given againats you when they run into your back , and it usually is in their area............frustrating alright . :mad:

j0e9o

1 thing I notice its actually easier to play vs 6 star than 3 star

Mossy Monk

what pisses me off about the game is the transfers. you can throw as much as you can at the player/club yet negotiations always breakdown. i have only managed to buy Schevchenko after 6 seasons :mad:

Tusky

Mossy Monk wrote:

what pisses me off about the game is the transfers. you can throw as much as you can at the player/club yet negotiations always breakdown. i have only managed to buy Schevchenko after 6 seasons :mad:

true..and very anoying. I have tonnes of money and have been winning the league and the cup but cant buy players.

Makaveli

How do they weight WEFA rankings?
I won every game after being promoted to Division 1, but still only have 58 points. Surely beating top ten teams should give you a load of points (Man Utd 8-0, 7-1 and Real Madrid 7-2). The weights on best league are crap too however they rank it. My league is ranked third despite Real Madrid winning the WEFA masters cup or the other one, whichever.

Thanks for the transfer tips Snoop. I got Nesta, Terry and Casillias by trading players and money.

Ardent

j0e9o wrote:

1 thing I notice its actually easier to play vs 6 star than 3 star

Thank Christ you said that! I thought I was going crazy - having bitch of a time on 3 star...

Headshot

[Thanks for the transfer tips Snoop. I got Nesta, Terry and Casillias by trading players and money.[/QUOTE]no bother ,here to help

What do you think of Nesta

Cannibal Ox

what pisses me off about the game is the transfers. you can throw as much as you can at the player/club yet negotiations always breakdown. i have only managed to buy Schevchenko after 6 seasons

I hate the transfer market.
That and the controlling fitness are about the only real problems I have with the game.

I'm guessing the other teams in the WEFA rankings are given a couple of seasons head start in points because I've never gotten into the top ten (out of 5 teams, all but one having completed the treble)

and my players are attracted to the ball they dont mark

@Snoop
Could be Zone Press, Auto Attack or something lie that. If your talking about a Master League team have a go at messing around with their team/strat settings.

THE ISS-MASTER

ARDENT you're probably crap at computer games full stop.yeah iss has its faults as does any game,but to say the play is sluggish is crap.who are you playing with iran?i've played every version off iss and for me the latest is just another step forward.class game,and i'm the best:)

Ardent

THE ISS-MASTER wrote:

ARDENT you're probably crap at computer games full stop.yeah iss has its faults as does any game,but to say the play is sluggish is crap.who are you playing with iran?i've played every version off iss and for me the latest is just another step forward.class game,and i'm the best:)

Good for you.