I wonder will Sinn Fein or IRA demand release for this chap?

mike65

Vincent McKenna an ex-member (he says) of the Provisional IRA who was sentenced to a lengthy jail term for repeated sexual assault on his eldest daughter is seeking early release under the Good Friday Agreement. This is boggling in itself but raises an issue, if the Provos are happpy to campaign for killers to be released early what about a paedophile?

www.wsws.org/articles/1999/oct1999/vmk-o20.shtml before the truth came out, they never did do a follow-up.

Mike.

Sand

Ah mike, you blew my cover on that other thread

But still, according to the line Sinn Fein/IRA and their supporters on this board have taken theres absolutely nothing wrong with this guy claiming early release under the GFA for child abuse.

They have after all reminded us time and time again that the requirements are only membership of the terrorist organisation on ceasefire. And lets face it, if McKenna had murdered these children instead of abusing them, they wouldnt have an issue with it at all.

cdebru

mike65 wrote:

Vincent McKenna an ex-member (he says) of the Provisional IRA who was sentenced to a lengthy jail term for repeated sexual assault on his eldest daughter is seeking early release under the Good Friday Agreement. This is boggling in itself but raises an issue, if the Provos are happpy to campaign for killers to be released early what about a paedophile?

www.wsws.org/articles/1999/oct1999/vmk-o20.shtml before the truth came out, they never did do a follow-up.

Mike.

i would check into mr mckenna he claims he was a former member this is disputed by republicans as far as i know
he set up an organisation called fait i believe and was very anti republican


as for early release he is not a member of any group afaik on ceasefire
nor is molesting your daughter a scheduled offence as specified by the GFA
so it is a non arguement

cdebru

Sand wrote:

Ah mike, you blew my cover on that other thread

But still, according to the line Sinn Fein/IRA and their supporters on this board have taken theres absolutely nothing wrong with this guy claiming early release under the GFA for child abuse.

They have after all reminded us time and time again that the requirements are only membership of the terrorist organisation on ceasefire. And lets face it, if McKenna had murdered these children instead of abusing them, they wouldnt have an issue with it at all.

nobody blew your cover sand i suspected you were going to try something stupid along those lines

again he is not a member of the iRA nor could molesting children by anyone ever be considered as a politically motivated crime nor is it covered by the GFA as it is not a scheduled offence as specified by the GFA
maybe you should read the GFA before coming out with this nonsense

alleepally

From watching the news tonight I got the distinct impression that Sinn Fein were distancing themselves from this individual. Also, if anyone was watching Gerry Adams on the LLS on Friday he answered the question posed by Kenny about what would happen if an IRA member killed someone in a drink driving accident would that person be eligible for release under the GFA. Adams stated clearly and unambiguosly that the person WOULD NOT come under any early release terms.

Were McCabes killers acting under orders from IRA command on the day of the killing? The answer appears to be yes so therefore they are entitled to be released under the GF agreement.

Was Vincent McKenna acting under orders from IRA command to sexually assault his daughter??? No... Therefore the question of early release doesn't come into question

A Dub in Glasgo

Now you are just being ridiculous. McKenna is a Walter Mitty and there is no evidence of IRA membership. Plenty of evidence that the British government bankrolled his organisations. Maybe the British Government will seek his release under the GFA!!

Sand

again he is not a member of the iRA

From the link Mike provided

McKenna's biography effectively disproves the assertion that he was never an IRA member. He was born to a Republican family. His uncle, Sean McKenna, was an IRA member who was tortured during internment. His uncle was given a full IRA funeral in 1975 in County Monaghan in the Irish republic, which borders onto Northern Ireland. His cousin, Sean, was on hunger strike at Long Kesh.

In 1981 McKenna was arrested and charged with petrol bombing the homes of RUC personnel during the hunger strikes of that year. In December 1981 he was bailed, against RUC opposition, and went on the run.

He was again arrested in 1982 by the Garda on a warrant from the RUC and was extradited by the High Court in Dublin in 1984. He was held in the IRA wing of Crumlin Road jail before being freed in January 1985. McKenna says that he was, by this time, an IRA intelligence officer. He has never named any of his former IRA comrades still alive, as this would open them up to possible reprisals. But in response to the claim that he was never an IRA member, he identified Jim Lynagh as his commanding officer. The most senior IRA officer killed since 1969, Lynagh died along with seven others in an SAS ambush in May 1987. McKenna possesses personal correspondence between himself and Lynagh.

By his own account, McKenna subsequently became disillusioned with the IRA and finally left in 1992.

The reason why you think McKenna wasnt an IRA man....

The efforts made to place McKenna's previous IRA membership into question focus largely on statements by forces close to Sinn Fein. But a number of unsubstantiated claims are made, such as an accusation that McKenna committed arson attacks on “the Catholic church in Aughnacloy”. Investigations reveal that this church has never been attacked by anyone.

nor could molesting children by anyone ever be considered as a politically motivated crime nor is it covered by the GFA as it is not a scheduled offence as specified by the GFA

This is important because now youre recognising theres more to it than just being an IRA man and committing a crime. Ill take this back to the other thread.

cdebru

alleepally wrote:

From watching the news tonight I got the distinct impression that Sinn Fein were distancing themselves from this individual. Also, if anyone was watching Gerry Adams on the LLS on Friday he answered the question posed by Kenny about what would happen if an IRA member killed someone in a drink driving accident would that person be eligible for release under the GFA. Adams stated clearly and unambiguosly that the person WOULD NOT come under any early release terms.

Were McCabes killers acting under orders from IRA command on the day of the killing? The answer appears to be yes so therefore they are entitled to be released under the GF agreement.

Was Vincent McKenna acting under orders from IRA command to sexually assault his daughter??? No... Therefore the question of early release doesn't come into question

afaik
this mans family approached the republican movement back in the late 90's
about him abusing his eldest daughter
the man went into hiding for a while
then very cleverly came out as an anti republican and tried to suggest that the allegations against him were because of his stand on punishment beatings etc
he formed a group called fait and took a lot of people in until his conviction
for molesting his daughter


this man has no association with the republican movement
and his offences(molesting his daughter) is in no way political or a scheduled offence as specified under the GFA

cdebru

Sand wrote:

The reason why you think McKenna wasnt an IRA man.....

because the republican movement have denied he was a member

http://republican-news.org/archive/2000/November16/16vince.html

http://www.redaction.org/news/nov_2000.html

Sand wrote:

This is important because now youre recognising theres more to it than just being an IRA man and committing a crime. Ill take this back to the other thread.

that was never in dispute the offence has to be politically motivated it is in the GFA i have never said that just being a member of the iRA was enough to ensure release i have said qualifying prisioners as specified by the GFA
which we all voted on
there is nothing new here
this is a cheap shot at this poor girls expense

Sand

cdebru, which part of McKennas history do you deny?

His family and their links to the IRA, including a full burial?

His arrests for attacks on the RUC?

That he was held in the IRA wing of Crumlin prison?

That he did not know or have close contact with senior IRA man Jim Lynagh?

You know what this really looks like? It looks like the SF/IRA guys are understandbly bitter and angry over betrayal from this guy and have attempted to limit the damage of having an ex IRA man criticise the IRA by trying to deny he was ever in the IRA. Let alone the fact he was abusing his daughter whilst fighting the "struggle".

spongebob

Sand wrote:

That he was held in the IRA wing of Crumlin prison?

That is the only interesting point really. He probably was a member in the 1980s but not necessarily since and not now. Then again the strain of being a member could have tipped him into peedo activity .

Finally he could have asked for medical help for this 'post traumatic ' symptom and not received it . Who should he sue, Gerry or Martin ?

Could we have a final conclusive list of who is in and who is out from P O'Neill one wonders.......and why.

M

Cork

If any IRA members are convicted of criminal activity - will SF/IRA be lobbying for their early release?

By his own account, McKenna subsequently became disillusioned with the IRA and finally left in 1992.

The good friday agreement is more than a "Get of of Jail Card" for the likes of the IRA.

But I hope that the IRA will actually give a list of its members and the members of its army council to the authorities.

The criminal assets beueau should sieze funds belonging to the IRA as part of a settlement.

billy the squid

alleepally wrote:

Were McCabes killers acting under orders from IRA command on the day of the killing? The answer appears to be yes so therefore they are entitled to be released under the GF agreement.

WRONG!!! The IRA didn't know what was happening when the McCabe killers attempted to rob that post office. you will read messages from pro-IRA/SF posters on this very board that the actions of these men were not sanctioned by the IRA

If the robbery was not sanctioned by the IRA then how in gods name were they acting under IRA orders.

the_syco

mike65 wrote:

Vincent McKenna an ex-member (he says) of the Provisional IRA

Hehe. Shot himself in the foot. They only let out members of the IRA. Not ex-members.

Also, from reading that article, it looks like Sinn Fein didn't like him too much back then.

monument

Sand wrote:

His family and their links to the IRA, including a full burial?

I "was born to a Republican family" does that make me a member of the IRA?

That would be strange, even stranger since I'm not a Republican.

billy the squid wrote:

WRONG!!! The IRA didn't know what was happening when the McCabe killers attempted to rob that post office. you will read messages from pro-IRA/SF posters on this very board that the actions of these men were not sanctioned by the IRA

If the robbery was not sanctioned by the IRA then how in gods name were they acting under IRA orders.

....

alleepally wrote:

Also, if anyone was watching Gerry Adams on the LLS on Friday he answered the question posed by Kenny about what would happen if an IRA member killed someone in a drink driving accident would that person be eligible for release under the GFA. Adams stated clearly and unambiguosly that the person WOULD NOT come under any early release terms.

Were McCabes killers acting under orders from IRA command on the day of the killing? The answer appears to be yes so therefore they are entitled to be released under the GF agreement.

On the McCabes killers, Adams said (/the offical line is) that they were acting under the orders of someone above them, but the orders were not a sanctioned by higher powers.


I’m just wondering why no one’s calling for the re-arrest of the killers of another police officer killed after McCabe.

padraic1walsh

alleepally wrote:

From watching the news tonight I got the distinct impression that Sinn Fein were distancing themselves from this individual. Also, if anyone was watching Gerry Adams on the LLS on Friday he answered the question posed by Kenny about what would happen if an IRA member killed someone in a drink driving accident would that person be eligible for release under the GFA. Adams stated clearly and unambiguosly that the person WOULD NOT come under any early release terms.

Were McCabes killers acting under orders from IRA command on the day of the killing? The answer appears to be yes so therefore they are entitled to be released under the GF agreement.

Was Vincent McKenna acting under orders from IRA command to sexually assault his daughter??? No... Therefore the question of early release doesn't come into question

Mr. Adams also said that the murder of McCabe and the Bank Robbery had been sanctioned by the IRA albeit at a " lower Level", think about that for a minute and its consequences for this democracy if these men are released

A Dub in Glasgo

billy the squid wrote:

WRONG!!! The IRA didn't know what was happening when the McCabe killers attempted to rob that post office. you will read messages from pro-IRA/SF posters on this very board that the actions of these men were not sanctioned by the IRA

If the robbery was not sanctioned by the IRA then how in gods name were they acting under IRA orders.

WRONG!!! The Army Council of the IRA did not know about this operation but once they became aware that the local OC gave the green light, they claimed the operation.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

WRONG!!! The Army Council of the IRA did not know about this operation but once they became aware that the local OC gave the green light, they claimed the operation.

you have inside information on this the rest of us aren't privy to eh?

Sounds like more poppycock to me to be honest.
The IRA denied it and then claimed it for one clearcut reason-denying it definitely ruled out early release for the perpetrators.
Claiming it allowed them to keep whinge-ing that they should be released under the GFA and laterly allowed them to get SF to use them as bargaining chips for a new deal ie you let our Garda Killing mates out and we'll scratch your back real hard.

A Dub in Glasgo

Earthman wrote:

you have inside information on this the rest of us aren't privy to eh?

Probably the same inside information that billy the squid has

Sounds like more poppycock to me to be honest.
The IRA denied it and then claimed it for one clearcut reason-denying it definitely ruled out early release for the perpetrators.
Claiming it allowed them to keep whinge-ing that they should be released under the GFA and laterly allowed them to get SF to use them as bargaining chips for a new deal ie you let our Garda Killing mates out and we'll scratch your back real hard.

That is one line of thought which people cannot prove, just like mine above. It sounds as if we all have inside information.

bonkey

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

That is one line of thought which people cannot prove, just like mine above. It sounds as if we all have inside information.

Sounds to me like you're both presenting supposition as fact.

jc

bonkey

bonkey wrote:

Sounds to me like you're both presenting supposition as fact.

jc

Except mine has more ground under it given that it's an opinion shared by the experts(the Gardaí) and not just a random internet posters opinion.

A Dub in Glasgo

bonkey wrote:

Sounds to me like you're both presenting supposition as fact.

jc

Which is true and it is something which I wanted people to get from everything here.

NOBODY KNOWS WHAT WENT ON

A Dub in Glasgow

A Dub in Glasgow wrote:

NOBODY KNOWS WHAT WENT ON

Ah the old give the Garda killers the benefit of the doubt routine in this case as nobody knows...
Bless their cotton socks the poor things ...

The Gardaí gave their opinion on what they think happened.
The Dáil gave it's opinion on what they think happened. The minister for Justice the man at whose discretion the law states can or cannot release them and who has access to all the files on these people gave his opinion.
A court of law gave it's definitive opinion on what it thought happened,

Now weigh that up against the opinion of such paragons of democratic virtue, the IRA :rolleyes:

billy the squid

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

WRONG!!! The Army Council of the IRA did not know about this operation but once they became aware that the local OC gave the green light, they claimed the operation.

if the IRA did not know about the robbery then how were the robbers acting under IRA orders.

bonkey

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Which is true and it is something which I wanted people to get from everything here.

NOBODY KNOWS WHAT WENT ON

Only a few posts ago you were telling peoplle their ideas are wrong because something else happened, which you went on to detail.

You're now trying to tell me that your statements about what actually happened were supposed to show that you - like everyone else - don't actually know?

Pull the other one. Its seasonal.

monument

Earthman wrote:

Except mine has more ground under it given that it's an opinion shared by the experts(the Gardaí) and not just a random internet posters opinion.

Indeed they are the experts on supposition. They tend to fail in the facts dep. more then the odd time.

A Dub in Glasgo

bonkey wrote:

Only a few posts ago you were telling peoplle their ideas are wrong because something else happened, which you went on to detail.

You're now trying to tell me that your statements about what actually happened were supposed to show that you - like everyone else - don't actually know?

Pull the other one. Its seasonal.

Of course, I have an idea which may or may not be correct. bts has an idea which may or may not be correct. You have an idea which may or may not be correct. bts was writing WRONG!!! in his post, I done the same to show that anybody can write WRONG!!! and then give their idea. Just because somebody writes WRONG!!! at the start of their post does not mean they are right.

Do you know anybody who actually knows?

A Dub in Glasgo

billy the squid wrote:

if the IRA did not know about the robbery then how were the robbers acting under IRA orders.

Are we talking about the IRA leadership (ie Army Council), the IRA regional leadership or the IRA local leadership?

Do you think that any leadership vets each order. The leadership sets parameters and strategy. It does not necessarily involve itself into the day to day activity of the individual divisions/departments/sections/cells.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Are we talking about the IRA leadership (ie Army Council), the IRA regional leadership or the IRA local leadership?

Do you think that any leadership vets each order. The leadership sets parameters and strategy. It does not necessarily involve itself into the day to day activity of the individual divisions/departments/sections/cells.

I see so what you are getting at is that theres no way of knowing if any of the "IRA's" activities were sanctioned such are the layers of management and red tape in the organisation.

To borrow a phrase-Pull the other one.

A Dub in Glasgo

Earthman wrote:

I see so what you are getting at is that theres no way of knowing if any of the "IRA's" activities were sanctioned such are the layers of management and red tape in the organisation.

To borrow a phrase-Pull the other one.

There seems to be a fascination with pulling things around here

hey you made me smile, at least we agree on one thing round here-sense of humour

FTA69

Earthman wrote:

you have inside information on this the rest of us aren't privy to eh?

Not really "inside information" considering Gerry Adams said as much on national television.