Westlink tollbridge Fúckers!!!!!

Saruman

WTF.. i repeat WTF!!!!

Bloody rant here!!!! Got a leaflet today with the new toll charges from the new year and its going from €1.50 to €1.80 for a car!!!! Feck sake that damn bridge was supposed to only be a toll bridge for 10 years when it first appeared and its still going and keeps being put up.. even when the euro came in the feckers put it up ABOVE the euro conversion to round it off.. b@satards...

Done suppose anyone wants to organise a blocade or some kind of protest or something... i would say trucks are being hit too so get them on our side!!!

At the moment i avoide the toll bridge unless i HAVE to use it but im considering avoiding completely now from the new year as €1.80 us just too much to cross a bridge and save 15 mins on going through chapelizod/castleknock!!

Alun

Add the fact too that €1.80 is much more awkward to get together in coins than €1.50 was thus making the automatic coin bucket option less attractive.

Kersh

Typical of this country. Ill be avoiding it too.

Victor

Saruman wrote:

Done suppose anyone wants to organise a blocade or some kind of protest or something...

I hear they do that every morning.

Saruman wrote:

i would say trucks are being hit too so get them on our side!!!

Except, well they have work to do.

Saruman wrote:

At the moment i avoide the toll bridge unless i HAVE to use it but im considering avoiding completely now from the new year as €1.80 us just too much to cross a bridge and save 15 mins on going through chapelizod/castleknock!!

Well how much is your 15 minutes worth?

East Link will be going up also.

McGintyMcGoo

Here's a little trick on how to avoid paying the toll fee. Drive up to the toll booth as usual. However, when none of the Westlink workers are watching, hop out of your car and quickly press the "shrink car to pocket size" button. When your car has shrunk, stick it in your pocket and casually stroll though the barrier. If anyone approaches you, just tell them that you do not have a car. If anyone enquires about the bulge in your pocket, just tell them that you're pleased to see them.

When safely on the other side and out of sight, bring the car back to full size, hop in and drive off. Keep saving the toll fees and then buy the one you love something extra special at Christmas.

Disclaimer: This may only work with cartoon cars!

BrianD3

Add the fact too that €1.80 is much more awkward to get together in coins than €1.50 was thus making the automatic coin bucket option less attractive.

And lots of drivers who use the automatic lane will now throw in 2 euros as they won't be bothered fiddling around with coins to get 1.80 together. I wouldn't be surprised if picking an awkward amount like 1.80 was a deliberate ploy by NTR.

BrianD3

impr0v

It's hard to see how a 20% rise is justified, especially with inflation now under control.

John R

Victor wrote:

Except, well they have work to do.

Never seems to be a problem for the French truckers, they are apparently able to use their trucks to block roads for weeks at a time no bother at all.

Saruman

You just KNOW it will be €2 by the end of next year!! Look they already make a profit... who knows how many users there are a day? I dont think it would be too much of a stretch to say 100,000 a day.. that may cover all the toll bridges east - west and the M1 too.. BUT anyway assuming 100,000 cars use the westlink (only) today they get €150000 for one day.. not bad... now with the increase thats an extra €30k a day!! there is no justification for it.

I notice motorbikes have not gone up.. probably so they dont all do what some of them do now.. just go in beside a truck and drive through..

atlantean

To make it worse, not all vehicles are cars. A high percentage are Vans and Trucks. It costs €3 for a van on the West Link and €5 and bloody 20 cent for a truck over 4 axles! Where did they get the 20 cent from?

Factor this into the equation and you will find that the profits soar!

As for the motorbikes ducking on the inside of the trucks – is their life only worth 80 cent? This is so dangerous!

Kazujo

It's really crap when you look at the percentage increase for each kind of vehicle. Cars are taking a major hit relatively more than anyother vehicle. Motorcycles have not gone up and I dont think vans and trucks got the full 20% increase either.

Victor

Kazujo wrote:

Cars are taking a major hit relatively more than anyother vehicle.

Sshhh! It's a conspiracy to discourage non-essential car use.

Silvera

I only use the M50 occassionally,but it is becoming more like a car park than a motorway because of the crazy hold ups at the toll bridge !

Do you like it - 'hold ups' - ?!

'Daylight robbery' is another name for it ! :mad:

The toll bridge should be open, at the very least during peak hours, for motorists to pass through and pay NO toll.
The govt could subsidise this money from their (vast!) profits/shares in the M50 Toll bridge.

This idea has been advocated by the AA's Conor Faughnan for years.

Victor

Silvera wrote:

I only use the M50 occassionally,but it is becoming more like a car park than a motorway because of the crazy hold ups at the toll bridge !

I though most of the delays were on the N4- Cookstown section these days.

Silvera wrote:

The toll bridge should be open, at the very least during peak hours, for motorists to pass through and pay NO toll.

And then everyone would travel at peak time. :rolleyes:

RainyDay

Silvera wrote:

The toll bridge should be open, at the very least during peak hours, for motorists to pass through and pay NO toll.
The govt could subsidise this money from their (vast!) profits/shares in the M50 Toll bridge.

What shares does the Govt have in National Toll Roads plc?

Victor

RainyDay wrote:

What shares does the Govt have in National Toll Roads plc?

NTR have to pay a royalty. I think it's split between Fingal & South Dublin Co. Co. and the government.

Saruman

Victor wrote:

I though most of the delays were on the N4- Cookstown section

Nope.. i use it every day and there are hold ups at some of the main junctions but there is almost always a hold up at the toll bridge that once you get through you have plain sailing all the way to the next junction...

On another note i think all the "problem junctions" should have a lane * you need to be in, one thats got a barrier on it so if you dont get into the right lane then tough go to next junction and come back then. They do this in some european countries. Most of the traffic jams are phantom.. cause by one person breaking to try and get into a junction at the last possible moment and it filters all the way down the line of traffic till it has to stop.

*third lane like the one between ballymount and red cow. Come off ballymount and you can stay in the filter lane all the way to red cow. Only on that becomes walled/barred so if you miss it you cant force your way in.

Silvera

sounds like a great idea to me Saruman !

is_that_so

Isn't this called traffic management ?

ambro25

Victor wrote:

I hear they do that every morning. :

ROFL

krinpit

McGintyMcGoo wrote:

Here's a little trick on how to avoid paying the toll fee....

Brilliant

mobpd

It is scandalous that they can put up the rates by 20% - who approves this? the government? an industry watchdog ot no-one?!
Bet their pay rates for staff have not gone up by 20% but that their profits will!

Also check out www.ntr.ie - they post the financial results here. The results for the first half of 2004 show that the group profits rose by 62% (yep! thats SIXTY TWO PERCENT!) for the first half 2004 v 2003.
They managed to increase the dividend by 10%.
The grooup also incudes the Broadband and Windfarm operations - I wonder if they are creaming the profits from the toll bridges to fund their broadband business cos that is making losses.....
Anyways the profit from toll operations went up by 35% (again THIRTY FIVE PERCENT!!!!)

Who should be lobbied against this rise?

trotter_inc

I couldnt believe this when I seen the signs on the toll!

This will mean that Im paying them €18 a week at least for my car, I wouldnt mind if they put an extra lane in to reduce the congestion on it!

DirtyDog

trotter_inc wrote:

I couldnt believe this when I seen the signs on the toll!

This will mean that Im paying them €18 a week at least for my car, I wouldnt mind if they put an extra lane in to reduce the congestion on it!

Instead you'll be paying ¬18 to park your car on the M50.....its just typical of this goverment to allow this hike.

spockety

The public should intensly lobby their politicians to force our government into putting a compulsory purchase order on both of those bridges, and pay NTR a fair amount for the structures, then remove all the barriers and just have them as normal bridges.

Any political party taking on that line during the next election may find themselves quite popular indeed.

Boggle

This will mean that Im paying them €18 a week at least for my car,

And if you have to do this 50 weeks a year thats 50*18 === !900! euro in tolls for one stretch of road.

HaHa - glad I dont live in Dublin!

RainyDay

spockety wrote:

The public should intensly lobby their politicians to force our government into putting a compulsory purchase order on both of those bridges, and pay NTR a fair amount for the structures, then remove all the barriers and just have them as normal bridges.

Is this really the top priority for Govt spending in your mind? If the Govt has spare cash available, why not spend it on improving the public transport system, or even schools or hospitals. Nationalising the toll-bridge would be a long way down my list of priorities.

spockety wrote:

Any political party taking on that line during the next election may find themselves quite popular indeed.

Do you want a repeat of 1977? Fianna Fail bought their way into power with a series of outrages promises (no road tax, no rates) that were paid for with taxpayers money. They bankrupted the country, drove us into huge debt, and it took 10-20 years to recover. Don't fall for populist promises - it's easy to make promises when you can pay for them with public money.

Seth Brundle

RainyDay wrote:

Do you want a repeat of 1977? Fianna Fail bought their way into power with a series of outrages promises

Reminds me of the last general election!

ambro25

I don't follow the thread divergeance: why ask for the Gvt to buy the bridge when lobbying against the 20% would suffice?

If the "profits figures" alleged earlier in the thread are accurate,

and the Gvt (who stands to cream so more itself if prices go up, as I'd imagine their portion to be a percentage) gets a strong enough hint of serious grumbling/possible blockade (let's dream altogether now, but my French DNA is hard to suppress...will probably be first in line to block... must resist ),

then that might prod them to address the situation - as I'd hate to imagine the backlash they'd take from the Dublin business comunity as their commuting employees all show late/can't get to work, and lost revenue/profits.

Nuttzz

The NRA were on the last word on today fm yesterday, the reason they gave for the increase is to pay for extending the motorway to 3 lanes

atlantean

Boggle wrote:

And if you have to do this 50 weeks a year thats 50*18 === !900! euro in tolls for one stretch of road.

...And this is after you paid your "Road Tax" :mad:

Seth Brundle

Doesnt National Toll Roads control the charges over the bridge not the NRA?

unkel

Nuttzz wrote:

The NRA were on the last word on today fm yesterday, the reason they gave for the increase is to pay for extending the motorway to 3 lanes

In fact 4 lanes if you include the weaving lane. A very small price to pay for such an improvement given the current state of affairs

Of course road tax should pay for this and we shouldn't have tolls at all, but road tax is not used for roads, unfortunately...

Come to think of it, myself and other road users who also pay €1343 per year in roadtax should get a lane of our own really

Ave

Victor wrote:

And then everyone would travel at peak time. :rolleyes:

Perhaps that's why it's called "peak time"?

Victor

Nuttzz wrote:

The NRA were on the last word on today fm yesterday, the reason they gave for the increase is to pay for extending the motorway to 3 lanes

I imagine NTR will be paying for the N3-N4 section.

kbannon wrote:

Doesnt National Toll Roads control the charges over the bridge not the NRA?

I think it's Fingal and South Dublin County Councils, with NRA input.

spockety wrote:

The public should intensly lobby their politicians to force our government into putting a compulsory purchase order on both of those bridges, and pay NTR a fair amount for the structures, then remove all the barriers and just have them as normal bridges.

It doesn't work that way. A compulsory purchase order pays for assets + costs + losses, not just assets.

unkel wrote:

Of course road tax should pay for this and we shouldn't have tolls at all, but road tax is not used for roads, unfortunately...

Road tax goes directly to the Local Authority Fund.

Boggle

In fact 4 lanes if you include the weaving lane. A very small price to pay for such an improvement given the current state of affairs

Has been a while since I've used this stretch regularly, but isn't the congestion mostly caused by the toll bridge and junctions such as the red cow?

Why not remove the tolls and speed up traffic?

Seth Brundle

Boggle wrote:

Why not remove the tolls and speed up traffic?

a private company runs the bridge. Why would they cut off a huge earner just to facilitate people?

Victor

Boggle wrote:

Why not remove the tolls and speed up traffic?

They are going to made the toll all electronic (via registration plates or otherwise).

silent

Victor wrote:

They are going to made the toll all electronic (via registration plates or otherwise).

good luck with that, maybe in 2010 :rolleyes:

Seth Brundle

possibly not - Hibernian have access to the driver database so why couldn't NTR?

Our man in Havana

Hibernian have access to the driver database

Since when? I didn't ever give them permission to access my data. Data protection act anyone?

the evil belly

they've had it since the ponits system came in. you have to provide them with your driveing licence number if you want to get the discount for being points free (17.5%) i think they can access it under the freedom of information act but i may be wrong (probably am and all)

ambro25

They'd have to have at least one manned booth. Otherwise, it would be interesting to see how the "reg' plate-only electronic system" copes with foreign cars...

Saruman

I heard on the news that some minister is against the increase.. only got the tail end of it and dont know who it was though.. anyone?

RainyDay

Saruman wrote:

I heard on the news that some minister is against the increase.. only got the tail end of it and dont know who it was though.. anyone?

I never cease to be amazed by Fianna Fail's ability to be both the Government running the country and the opposition objecting to the manner in which the country is run simultaenously.

novice

And thr greedy f***ers don't even mention the forthcoming price hike on their website www.eazypass.ie

loyatemu

if the Westlink increase is to pay for the M50 widening, then what is the increase on the Eastlink for?

the tolls go up by more than inflation every year & there doesn't seem to be any real reason other than profiteering. And because the govt and council get a cut of the profits they approve it every year.

As for the govt buying back the bridges - forget about it. By the time the bridges do revert to public ownership in 20 years or so there will likely be tolls on every entrance to the M50 in order to keep the thing moving.

silent

loyatemu wrote:

if the Westlink increase is to pay for the M50 widening, then what is the increase on the Eastlink for?

very good point.
I actually don't mind the increase - IF they would give commuters who NEED to use the M50 for their daily drive to work a possiblity of a flat rate - i.e. - monthly 40E and I can use the M50 daily with eazypass. What they do is a disgrace - it actually costs you more to use easypass - you pay the same amount + 1E montly fee - and you need to be in credit so they make money in interest via this (not much but still)
at the very least a 30-40% discount for eazypass should be made available.
Let the people using the m50 only occationally pay 2E each way, it's no big deal but if you need to use it daily - 1.8 * 2 *5 * 4 = 72E each month FFS. now tell me it's not a rip off

I'm glad I use it daily one way though only, paying 72E just for the priviledge of some ****ty small bridge is ridiculous

Seth Brundle

Read David McWilliam's Article in yesterdays Business Post
The great toll bridge rip-off !

Victor

loyatemu wrote:

then what is the increase on the Eastlink for?

There is a formula in the contract link to the Capital Goods Index.

Victor

Ooo, look political oppurtunism. :rolleyes:

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/4753156?view=Eircomnet

Minister puts brake on big M50 toll increase
From:The Irish Independent
Tuesday, 28th December, 2004

THE Government has moved to put the brakes on a proposed 20pc increase in road toll charges.

In an unprecedented intervention Traffic Minister Ivor Callely has asked National Toll Roads to review its plans to introduce a 20pc hike in toll charges at the Westlink Bridge on the M50.

The company is planning to increase the toll charge for a car from €1.50 to €1.80, according to the minister who is unhappy at the level of increase.

Now the minister has written to the National Roads Authority, which has responsibility for tolling on main roads, pointing out that there has been considerable "public unrest and disquiet" about the proposed increase.

Mr Callely believes that there could at least be a freeze on any increase on the pre-paid Eazypass smart card system, now used by one quarter of all motorists.

The minister said that the private tolling company had an agreement which allowed it to increase the toll charges in line with inflation and the company was perfectly entitled to do that.

"But I am concerned about a 20pc increase when inflation is running at 5pc," the minister told the Irish Independent yesterday.

"In an age of technology and with the growing use of Eazypass which does not require manpower I have asked the National Roads Authority to review the price increase," said Mr Callely.

"I am unhappy and concerned about the price increase of 20pc," he added.

National Toll Roads did not apply any increase for three years between 2002 and 2004.

It is understood that the board of the company will consider the matter on foot of the request from the minister.

Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent