Anyonw know a surefire way out of a standing headlock?

dabhal

that won't result injury to yourself.
I have found many methods but they all carry (IMO) a hugh risk.
Most result in both people in a fall and while your head is still in a tight lock the risk to your neck is all too real.

Colm_OReilly

dabhal,

Is your opp in front of you or by your side? I've a few ideas but they'd be easier to show than to try and explain.

Most result in both people in a fall and while your head is still in a tight lock the risk to your neck is all too real

If you're on top and they're just squeezing your head there's a fairly simple and pain free way to escape.

Colm

dabhal

I talking the school yard type with a major lock around the neck both opp on thier feet. the victim would be by the side of the attacker.

vasch_ro

the ans is yes
let colm show you
easier that way

Colm_OReilly

I'll try to find the cable for the digital camera I borrowed from a friend. If I can do that, I'd prob be able to put some pictures up. It would still be easier if you could make it out to somewhere where I train.

Colm

columok

Let Colm show you.

The escapes range from gentle trip and forearm pressure to release the headlock to hilarious comedy slammage!

Colm_OReilly

We've also got the Elvis takedown, A-hu-ha!

dabhal

Colm_OReilly wrote:

I'll try to find the cable for the digital camera I borrowed from a friend. If I can do that, I'd prob be able to put some pictures up. It would still be easier if you could make it out to somewhere where I train.

Colm

Love to but I barely have enough time after work to make my own club
Plus Tallaght, thats a million feckin miles away
[the bogger crys and sobs in the background]

M@lice

With most head locks your in a great position to swing your arm up between their legs. The sudden shock gives you time to break free.

StephenInsane

If he's got you in a "school boy" headlock headlock where your at his right side.

step so you're now in front of him. Put your right arm between his legs and under his left leg. Lift him so he goes side ways. Drop him to the floor, your head should be cushioned by his chest. You now have side mount control.

I just made that up on the fly so i don't know how effective it could be. and I'll take no responsibility for anyone who gets injured attempting this technique!

Unpossible

Id go for the nuts, a good punch up there and he will let go.

TwoKingMick

Whats a suplay?

Musashi

Shoot your opponnent in the temple, try for the Medulla shot and he'll drop like a sack of ****.
Other than that there's nothing "Surefire" but fingers in the eyes may come close.I have been shown other,more "technical" ways out but it would be easier to show than type a description of them.
I'm pretty sure a ruptured testicle is a day spoiler for someone too!
Why are you in a headlock BTW? Is this workplace rough housing, schoolyard bullying or an attack on your person? Different responses are warranted depending on the level of threat you face. "Big Mick" grabbing you in a headlock Monday morning may not warrant biomechanical cutting solutions.

Colm_OReilly

Shoot your opponnent in the temple, try for the Medulla shot and he'll drop like a sack of ****.

Very hard to hit someone effectively if they're controlling your body, as they are in a headlock.

memphis

Its far easier to show someone, and from what I've learnt there are numerous ways of getting out of a headlock, but rather than try type up a load of techinical jargon, the easiest way to get out of a headlock that I know of is to grab the fatty muscles in the thigh (his inside leg), the guy will scream like a bitch and loosen his grip allowing you to free yourself.

Hope that helps,
Memph

vasch_ro

actually the only sure fire way is to get your mate to help you !!!

blondie83

Very true - get one of your mates to put you in a headlock, then play around until you figure out a way to take his balance and get out of it.

Cake Fiend

Balls and eyes are good targets. If the attacker is doing the old classic headlock and is by your side facing the same way, you're in a perfect position for a slap to the balls, then bring the hand closest to the attacker up and around to pull his head backwards by the eyes and nose in a similar manner to this.

Colm_OReilly

LMAO @ picture!

Colm_OReilly

blondie83 wrote:

Very true - get one of your mates to put you in a headlock, then play around until you figure out a way to take his balance and get out of it.

Best advise given on this thread so far!

columok

Nice advice from the ninja corner! Seems like all that engineering is doing some good after all!

Guys,

A headlock isnt going to be a static position. Your gonna be getting dragged around and its a very uncomfortable place to be. So make sure if youre getting a friend to spar it with you that they arent just standing there statically!

Cheers,

Colum

Victor

For school yeard bully, grope him and stamp on the inside of his foot.... and run away!!!!!

columok

grope him

Wrong forum dude!

memphis

columok wrote:

Wrong forum dude!

LOL

Lots of good ideas being thrown around above, but I will suggest that if your gonna try messing about with a mate, be careful!

Good pic Sico, if not a little funny!

Cake Fiend

It's a brutal pic alright but the only one I could find that was vaguely similar to what I was trying to describe (The technique described is fairly effective - you can't even think straight when someone's jamming their fingers into your eye sockets)

Musashi

Ok so not exactly the same but the elbow is pretty static compared to the other guys body and you can index it by feel.Should persuade him to let go!

columok

Yeah next time someone gets me in a rear naked choke I'll shoot him in the elbow with my 9mm! :rolleyes:

But since most of us dont carry a cache of small arms with us when we're bopping about...


Get a mate to put you in a headlock on some mats and try and get out of it (without groping his balls or gouging out his eyes). Blondie83 said it best really!!!

You'll quickly learn that to get out of a headlock you dont need to tear someones balls off or blind someone for life. I love the way everyone is so casual about hitting people in the balls and gouging people- a little harsh lads!

Victor

Musashi wrote:

Ok so not exactly the same but the elbow is pretty static compared to the other guys body and you can index it by feel.Should persuade him to let go!

Not suitable for playground bullying.

May result in hearing loss, flash burns and if really unlucky, shooting yourself in the jaw.

columok

May result in hearing loss, flash burns and if really unlucky, shooting yourself in the jaw.

LOL!

Clive

columok wrote:

I love the way everyone is so casual about hitting people in the balls and gouging people- a little harsh lads!

Nothing wrong with lifting someone up by the knackers to shhhlam them on their noggin'!

columok

But you can slam someone without resorting to grabbing them by the balls. It's all about context really. If you have the fundamental escapes and skills you can "harsh them up" if you're fighting for your life. If all you have is balls grabs and eye pokes you dont have a necessarily proportionate response for all situations i.e your mate is drunk and aggro but you dont want to ruin his chances of having children.

Clive

columok wrote:

But you can slam someone without resorting to grabbing them by the balls.

Yeah but it's not as rewarding.

Musashi

The question as asked was a surefire way out of a headlock.There was no level of threat to your self specified.If I am in a headlock with someone who wants to do damage then i want out of it as quickly as possible!
A broken neck or a crushed trachea can happen pretty quickly,even by accident.Being chocked out to be stomped at someones leisure is also not high on my to-do list.
Playground roughhousing is another matter.Breaking a couple fingers would probably do!
Putting me in a headlock is not my idea of fun unless it's mutually agreed, as in a JJ seminar or some other learning environment.

May result in hearing loss, flash burns and if really unlucky, shooting yourself in the jaw

Could always go for the "Texas Heart Shot" and plug him in the chocolate starfish,prolly wise to use rounds that don't over penetrate!

dabhal

thanks for the comments guys, a few points:

I was referring to a serious headlock where the risk is real, not just roughhousing, it came up becuase it happened to a friend years ago and got me thinking, he was lucky that the guy let him go so he could have a few swings but as he said to me at the time he was in serious danger of haveing his neck snapped.
I have tried this in training numerous times but have never been happy with the results, the idea of lifting the attacker works but you both fall pretty hard and if the headlock is tight you could get badly hurt.
On the idea of hitting him in the nuts, nice in theroy but I seen guys in clinchs hang on through bites, punches and broken noses and I don't think it would work.(worst case)
The idea if hitting anywhere other than the kidneys/legs is out, if your in a proper headlock you just cant reach and power/speed is lmited.

I have done this from the attacker side aswell and the control you wield is considerable.

Dabhal

columok

A broken neck or a crushed trachea can happen pretty quickly,even by accident.

Dude the neck and trachea are more resilient than you give them credit. Certainly a headlock could give you whiplash (been there done it bought the tshirt) but its unlikely to break the neck of crush the trachea. The cartilage in the trachea is too flexible and the muscles in the neck too firm.

Also I feel there is really no need for anus to gun barrel contact. Its just unneccesary!!!

Dabhal,

You dont have to slam to put the guy on the ground. You can drive and trip and do it very gently if you wish. Ive tried it loadsa times and your neck is pretty safe either way. Kidney or leg shots wont make someone let go of a headlock to be honest.

Colm_OReilly

Fundamentals for staying safe in a headlock.

Shrug Shoulders

Turn chin into opponent.

Keep hips lower than his.

Use outside hand to pull down on his wrist.

After that I'll try to get teh photos done over Christmas.

Peace Out,
Colm

GuanYin

use arm between youand attacker.

Put your arm over his shouler nearest you.

making a knife hand, apply pressure under his nose/upper lip (its a pressure point).
you should easily be able to push him back off his feet.

You'll take the person down regardless of size difference, every time. You also don't do serious damage to the person, although you leave them prone to the option.

Clive

syke wrote:

You'll take the person down regardless of size difference, every time.

LOL!

TwoKingMick

Can i put you in a headlock? I'm only little.

Colm_OReilly

syke wrote:

use arm between youand attacker.

Put your arm over his shouler nearest you.

making a knife hand, apply pressure under his nose/upper lip (its a pressure point).
you should easily be able to push him back off his feet.

You'll take the person down regardless of size difference, every time. You also don't do serious damage to the person, although you leave them prone to the option.

Tried it on Tuesday against a variety of people on Tuesday. Couldn't get it to work.

GuanYin

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Tried it on Tuesday against a variety of people on Tuesday. Couldn't get it to work.

It doesn't work on Tuesdays.


Seriously, I probably didn't describe it properly or you didn't do it properly or both.

columok

From what I saw the person shrugs your hand away assuming that you can reach their face which wont be possible on big guys hence I dispute your assertion.

You'll take the person down regardless of size difference, every time. You also don't do serious damage to the person, although you leave them prone to the option.

There are much simpler escapes and much simpler takedowns that are more likely to work against bigger guys and dont rely on pressure points. I'm aware of the pressure point you mean and the manner you imply to pressure it. Constant pressure wouldnt put me off balance OR cause me to release the headlock. An effective strike to the nose is very difficult given your situation. Therefore I cant understand how this could possibly work to be honest!

GuanYin

columok wrote:

From what I saw the person shrugs your hand away assuming that you can reach their face which wont be possible on big guys hence I dispute your assertion.



There are much simpler escapes and much simpler takedowns that are more likely to work against bigger guys and dont rely on pressure points. I'm aware of the pressure point you mean and the manner you imply to pressure it. Constant pressure wouldnt put me off balance OR cause me to release the headlock. An effective strike to the nose is very difficult given your situation. Therefore I cant understand how this could possibly work to be honest!

Dispute all you want. I can do it and so can about 200+ students I've trained.


All you need to do is apply pressure currectly to the right point, not strike anyone.... :rolleyes:

Why uproot a tree when you can prune a branch?

Here is a better description it seems, although more basic in application.

columok

You seem pretty certain. Would you be willing to prove it? TwoKingMick is around 65kg, I'm around 85kg. Either of us, or one of many others, could put you in a headlock and see if it works...

I dont mean this as a threat by the way so sorry if it seems that way!

Regards,

Colum

GuanYin

columok wrote:

You seem pretty certain. Would you be willing to prove it? TwoKingMick is around 65kg, I'm around 85kg. Either of us, or one of many others, could put you in a headlock and see if it works...

I dont mean this as a threat by the way so sorry if it seems that way!

Regards,

Colum

I've practiced TKD 20 years along with various other martial arts. So yes I'm quite confident I know what I'm talking about. I edited a link in above.

While I seem certain, you seem eager to be negative. Its not a state of mind where you will learn anything quickly.

columok

I can understand why I appear to be negative and I'm sorry it seems that way. A fundamental factor of the way I train MMA/BJJ (along with Mick, Colm and many others) is that we accept nothing on anecdotal evidence or on someone's word. We try it for ourselves against FULL resistance before we take something as effective. We see martial arts as a science rather than a religion. Therefore we hear a theory, test it rigorously and either improve it or discard it according to the results. We NEVER accept something as effective on someone's word! Regardless of who that person is grandmaster, little sister, coach, fighting champion, whatever!

I hope then you understand why I asked you for proof. It wasnt some macho challenge...

GuanYin

columok wrote:

I can understand why I appear to be negative and I'm sorry it seems that way. A fundamental factor of the way I train MMA/BJJ (along with Mick, Colm and many others) is that we accept nothing on anecdotal evidence or on someone's word. We try it for ourselves against FULL resistance before we take something as effective. We see martial arts as a science rather than a religion. Therefore we hear a theory, test it rigorously and either improve it or discard it according to the results. We NEVER accept something as effective on someone's word! Regardless of who that person is grandmaster, little sister, coach, fighting champion, whatever!

I hope then you understand why I asked you for proof. It wasnt some macho challenge...

I am quite content in myself and have no ego for you to bruise, so your reassurence is quite unrequired. I am not trying to prove anything, just stating what is true.

I do believe that your attitude

A fundamental factor of the way I train MMA/BJJ (along with Mick, Colm and many others) is that we accept nothing on anecdotal evidence or on someone's word

is quite bemusing considering you are discussing martial arts on a message board and postulating techniques here yourself.

If you truely hold that conviction, then you contribute and gain nothing by taking part in any thread discussion seeing as you inherently reject any new knowledge you encounter yet expose everyone to the same conditions you view with uncertainty.

It is a pondry to consider indeed.

columok

No pondry.

Earlier this evening I was at training where I escaped several headlocks. I tried the method you had proposed (I was familiar with the concept from a traditional JJ technique) and it flat out didnt work for me. My postulation was all undertaken in a training environment against full resistance rather than on a message board.

If you truely hold that conviction, then you contribute and gain nothing by taking part in any thread discussion seeing as you inherently reject any new knowledge you encounter yet expose everyone to the same conditions you view with uncertainty.

I never claimed not to accept any new advice! Re-read my post! I simply dont accept new techniques at face value. I expose them to testing. I tried what you suggested and found it didnt work. I have returned with the results of my experiment to ask for analysis. I have chosen to discard the technique as I found it to be ineffective!

A martial artist can either be:

A) I dont inherently accept something until I try it out. Science!

I take someones word, accept anecdotal evidence about a mystical teacher, founder, grandmaster. Religion!

Martial arts is a science. Self defence is a science. You must never accept something as truth because someone said so. You must constantly seek to challenge, discard, improve and therefore evolve. This is the way of something living. Something that stays the same - never challenging, discarding, improving or evolving eventually stagnates and dies.

An analogy I've used before: If I claimed to have some magical new way of playing football (or some ancient secret way) people would want to see me prove it on a football pitch. If I made up a bunch of reasons not too (not our style, dont believe in competition, too dangerous), people would dismiss me and they'd be right. Why should the scientific (i.e. self defence) element of martial arts be any different?

GuanYin

It never occured to you that perhaps you weren't doing it right?
*shrug*
Do you master everything first time without ever seeing it in action?

No matter, to the poster, try it if you perform it correctly, it will work.

columok

Well thats why I asked you to demonstrate it. You could demonstrate it on Mick and I could watch. I wanted to see if there was a knack I wasnt getting hence I asked someone who put forward the theory to illustrate it. A fair request. Colm put forward a theory and is always open to people challenging that theory and asking for proof!

GuanYin

columok wrote:

Well thats why I asked you to demonstrate it. You could demonstrate it on Mick and I could watch. I wanted to see if there was a knack I wasnt getting hence I asked someone who put forward the theory to illustrate it. A fair request. Colm put forward a theory and is always open to people challenging that theory and asking for proof!

Oh I don't mind that you ask for proof, questioning everything is the sign of a healthy mind. I just find your manner bemusing