Dr. No - Paisley Pattern (again!)

somechick

Sorry, but the Very Rev Paisley (Dr. No) wants to humiliate and subjugate……..if it's good enough for the Brit Gov, Irish Gov, SDLP, UUP, Catholic clergy, Protestant clergy, Gen. John De Chastelin, me, you, and every other mutha ****a why do you need to take snaps???? What a *****r*!!!!! Watch this story today and if it falls through you know who curse and blame……..

**************************** :mad:

Tony Blair and his Irish counterpart Bertie Ahern fly to Belfast today to reveal details of their plan to revive power-sharing in Northern Ireland.

But the deal looks like it could be derailed by a row over IRA disarmament.
Democratic Unionists are pressing for photographic evidence of decommissioning.

However, republicans have rejected the demand, saying it would be humiliating.

With neither side ready to back down, the chances of securing a peace deal appear to be slim.

It is a huge disappointment for Mr Blair, who hoped to have an agreement in place by Christmas.

The IRA last night confirmed in a brief statement that it has been in talks with the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning (IICD).

It gave no details, though.

"The IRA leadership confirms that our representative has been in contact with and has met with the IICD," the statement said.

It is believed republicans were prepared to have Protestant and Catholic clergy witness the destruction of weapons.

But they regard a photograph as a step too far

bringitdown

I'm firmly of the opinion that picture or no picture, EVERYONE has lost in the North, EVERYONE.

pork99

I don't care if they make a 3 part mini-series of it to be shown at 9pm on Tuesdays on RTE 2, just get on with it! It's what we (the majority of Irish people) voted for.

All Paisley wants is an excuse to take the ball away and go home. He's how old? 78? About time he retires and allows someone who lives in the 21st century to take over.

uum

Ooh i hate him, i really do.
I'd love to stick his walking stick up his arse sideways.

He's put the north back years and his son will do even worse

But on the other hand you can see his logic even if it is perverse. Trimble failed because the people lost faith. They didnt believe because they saw no results.

That photograph may well prove to be the most expensive in history. I hope i never see it.
It will be Paisley epitaph, his crowning glory.
Ooh i hate him

PH01

I wouldn't be too concerned.
It was all a bit wishful thinking to set anything happening before the next general election in the UK.
It's all going to happen after that, and it will be Paisley and the DUP who will deliver, be it kicking and screaming.


PS. I like the Paisley Pattern Pun!

dabhal

I think the IRA should be proud to display the destruction of the weapons, a hugh undertaking in thier part and certainley a lot more the LVF, UDA, UFV are doing.

ixoy

I also can see the perverse logic of Ian "Anagram of 'tunc'" Paisley. If he manages to hold out, and get his photograph, it will forever elevate him in the eyes of his followers as the man who defeated the IRA.

Any chance that Sinn Fein et al. will follow suit and demand photos of Provo disarmament? After all, the North has always played "tit-for-tat" so why should it be magnamonious now?

mycroft

dabhal wrote:

I think the IRA should be proud to display the destruction of the weapons, a hugh undertaking in thier part and certainley a lot more the LVF, UDA, UFV are doing.

Seeing as everyone are doing it in secret and can't prove that that's their entire weapons fund, where's your proof to support that statement?

luckat

Interesting point, Dab - perhaps this is going to become a "We'll show you ours if you'll show us yours" bargain by all of the pollywogs* involved.

* Pollywogs: the tadpole-like pattern on paisley-printed material.

dabhal

mycroft wrote:

Seeing as everyone are doing it in secret and can't prove that that's their entire weapons fund, where's your proof to support that statement?

Thats the prob isn't it. Thats why I said they should be proud to display to the public that they are doing it. We hear next nothing about LVF UVF....putting weapons beyond use

dabhal

Pollywogs

marco murphy

pork99 wrote:

I don't care if they make a 3 part mini-series of it to be shown at 9pm on Tuesdays on RTE 2, just get on with it! It's what we (the majority of Irish people) voted for.

All Paisley wants is an excuse to take the ball away and go home. He's how old? 78? About time he retires and allows someone who lives in the 21st century to take over.

mycroft

dabhal wrote:

Thats the prob isn't it. Thats why I said they should be proud to display to the public that they are doing it. We hear next nothing about LVF UVF....putting weapons beyond use

We hear next to nothing cause you can't hear anything over Paisley shouting "NO I WILL NOT SIT DOWN WITH TERRORISTS"

i really hope he doesn't die before I get to perform one of five life ambitions. I really want to headbutt him.

Pal

Paisley has done a dishonest thing.

He named his price and the Republicans said SOLD.

Now he has changed it.

he never wanted to deal. ever.

This guy makes me sick.

Mighty_Mouse

I don't care if they make a 3 part mini-series of it to be shown at 9pm on Tuesdays on RTE 2, just get on with it! It's what we (the majority of Irish people) voted for

I think you'll find that what most republicans accepted was decommissioning under the supervision of and independant auditor...............not a 3 part mini series.

MrPudding

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

I think you'll find that what most republicans accepted was decommissioning under the supervision of and independant auditor...............not a 3 part mini series.

Not only that but the DUP and other Unionist parties agreed to it. They all said they woul dtake the word of the independent body. When it came down to it though they decided it was not good enough.

MrP

A Dub in Glasgo

There is really no surprise in this.... the goalposts have been on a fecking conveyor belt controlled by the Unionists.

dahamsta

dabhal wrote:

We hear next nothing about LVF UVF....putting weapons beyond use

This bugs the living sh1t out of me. We don't hear about the opposing terrorist groups operating a huge proportion of organised crime in NI either. What bugs me more, though, is that Sinn Féin and the like allow them and the media to get away with it.

adam

dabhal

dahamsta wrote:

This bugs the living sh1t out of me. We don't hear about the opposing terrorist groups operating a huge proportion of organised crime in NI either. What bugs me more, though, is that Sinn Féin and the like allow them and the media to get away with it.

adam

I think/hope they just don't want to get into a pointless "well you guys do this" argument.
You know the sort of crap the DUP spout daily.
I think history will make a bigger deal of that point.

Boggle

Fat fcuk....

.... it seems to me that what matters is that all the violence is stopped and the people of the North can get on with their lives. Whats the difference between witnesses and a photograph anyway? If the threat is gone then it is gone...

DeVore

Boggle wrote:

Fat fcuk....

.... it seems to me that what matters is that all the violence is stopped and the people of the North can get on with their lives. Whats the difference between witnesses and a photograph anyway? If the threat is gone then it is gone...

You cant plaster the witness onto every wall in Belfast with NyahNyahnyyyaaahNyah written on him.

DeV.

Boggle

I know and I agree with you. I firmly believe that Paisley has put the whole process in danger just to satisfy his own personal needs. He wants to be able to wave those posters around and tell everyone that it was HE who brought the IRA to their knees.

He probably reckons that the IRA have lost their appetite for destruction and whatever happens they (probably) wont go back to violence...

Villain

Paisley does not want a deal, he wants everyone to blaim the IRA and SF for not being able to deliver a deal. He knew well what he was doing when he said he wanted to humiliate the IRA, David Trimble would take this deal and run, but Paisley never wanted a deal he wanted to get close and see how far SF would go then pull back and make it look like its the IRA and SF's fault. Photographic evidence of decommisioning was not part of the GFA.

Johnny_the_fox

irish1 wrote:

Photographic evidence of decommisioning was not part of the GFA.

the DUP wasnt part of the GFA. :eek:

Villain

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

the DUP wasnt part of the GFA. :eek:

So what, it was passed by majority, it's what the people of Ireland want North and South. The point I was making is that the DUP are looking for something that they knew was never agreed on and would never be agreed on.

Horeb

Paisley is right, how can you trust terrorists.

Humiliation, what about the 3000 odd dead people.

100% to him, he wants no guns in politics and SF do.

Evidence of a photographic nature is correct, what else are the DUP supposed to do accept the word of murderers, criminals and thugs.

They are right , guns out deal in.

Johnny_the_fox

irish1 wrote:

So what, it was passed by majority, it's what the people of Ireland want North and South.

So what...? - Do you think Paisley cares - what the majority voted for years ago... since the GFA there has been other agreements eg. Belfast Agreement.

irish1 wrote:

The point I was making is that the DUP are looking for something that they knew was never agreed on and would never be agreed on.

I believe it was agreed in the recent talks - Annex B of the proposals.. go and read it. SF agreed with it. the IRA didnt.

A Dub in Glasgo

Just in case his post is not a wind up

Horeb-Security wrote:

Paisley is right, how can you trust terrorists.

Do you trust Nelson Mandela?

Humiliation, what about the 3000 odd dead people.

Do you want more so you can satisfy your lust for humiliation?

100% to him, he wants no guns in politics and SF do.

Ha Ha, you obviously are not aware of Paisleys past. What is your view of the GFA?

Evidence of a photographic nature is correct, what else are the DUP supposed to do accept the word of murderers, criminals and thugs.

New condition. The GFA states that an independent guy will verify. Now it is not good enough for the independent guy, it is also not good enough for respected clergy men from both religions. Are they murderers, criminals and thug as well?

They are right , guns out deal in.

This is exactly what was agreed and we are getting there. Goalposts being moved all the time though

Villain

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

I believe it was agreed in the recent talks - Annex B of the proposals.. go and read it. SF agreed with it. the IRA didnt.

Well you see the problem there is the IRA have the guns and SF don't, Paisley knew the IRA would never agree to what he wanted.

Horeb

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Just in case his post is not a wind up



Do you trust Nelson Mandela? - NO



Do you want more so you can satisfy your lust for humiliation?

If I had my way I would imprision all members of the IRA for the rest of their natural lives....



Ha Ha, you obviously are not aware of Paisleys past. What is your view of the GFA? - It has'nt changed that much for the average person and a lot of people abused it namely nigerians(Off topic)



New condition. The GFA states that an independent guy will verify. Now it is not good enough for the independent guy, it is also not good enough for respected clergy men from both religions. Are they murderers, criminals and thug as well?

Whats the harm with photos and clergy can be fooled aswell



This is exactly what was agreed and we are getting there. Goalposts being moved all the time though


I know paisleys past well but at least he is consistent and has'nt blood on his hands no matter what said.

hmmm

Redleslie2

If Paisley does get a photograph the next step will be to complain it's not good enough because it's "upside down". Cue another 5 years of arsing about.

stevenmu

What I'd love to see happen is for the IRA to take some photos of decomissioning, then put on an exhibition somewhere showing a timeline of the history of the troubles. Start off with some photos of british atrocoties and oppression, then some of the heroic IRA fighting back, maybe a few of the hunger strikes aswell, then some of the peace talks and decomissioning process, and if possible finish it off with a photoshopped one of Gerry Adams shaking hands with Dr. Paisley, that'd teach him a thing or two about humiliation

thejollyrodger

I always wondered, what if the provos just pressed ahead with the decomissioning without any pictures. There wouldnt be much Ian Paisley could do afterwards if all the weapons were gone !!

FTA69

Horeb-Security wrote:

Paisley is right, how can you trust terrorists.

Humiliation, what about the 3000 odd dead people.

100% to him, he wants no guns in politics and SF do.

Evidence of a photographic nature is correct, what else are the DUP supposed to do accept the word of murderers, criminals and thugs.

They are right , guns out deal in.

Yes, lets talk about the 3000 odd dead people, many killed by the UVF Paisley helped re-organise in 1966, or the many killed by the British Army and the RUC. The IRA are not the only armed group involved in this process and to centre exclusively around them in the creation of a deal is simply to ignore other serious factors.

A process was set up to deal with the issue of arms and that process was agreed and ratified by all, including the two governments. De Chastelin and the arms commision are the ones responsible for that, they are independent and bipartisan so I can't see how they are not good enough for the DUP.

Maybe you should educate yourself on the subject before commenting on it so vociferously.

Horeb

I am well educated Pal and not an armchair expert.

DUP are right and as for the other organisations they are not in the equation.

The IRA have a huge body count and the majority killed by the security forces were terrorists.

The UVF and UDA/UFF, LVF etc are just as bad and I am not defending them.

Msrs McGuinness and Adams are two puppets that are nothing merely but show men at least paisley had some power and has the balls to say how things are.

I hope it does not go through unless his demands are met, for to long have the fenians being appeased and let run riot with the likes drumcree etc.

I have both family and friends up there and have lived in London Derry for twelve years so dont rant or be so judgemental

Boggle

The man is afraid of peace. he is afraid of becoming redundant in a climate lacking of sectarian hatred... what would he do then?

The truth is that no-one knows how many arms the IRA have - they are a guerilla op, which means they so not have a huge need for conventional weapons (such as guns). Lets face it for most of what I've heard about 20 auto weapons would be enough as all their attacks are in the form of explosive devices...

I would have though the disbanding if the IRA would have been more important than the destruction of a few guns...

FTA69

Horeb-Security wrote:

I am well educated Pal and not an armchair expert.

DUP are right and as for the other organisations they are not in the equation.

The IRA have a huge body count and the majority killed by the security forces were terrorists.

The UVF and UDA/UFF, LVF etc are just as bad and I am not defending them.

Msrs McGuinness and Adams are two puppets that are nothing merely but show men at least paisley had some power and has the balls to say how things are.

I hope it does not go through unless his demands are met, for to long have the fenians being appeased and let run riot with the likes drumcree etc.

I have both family and friends up there and have lived in London Derry for twelve years so dont rant or be so judgemental

Fenians running riot? O dearie me, won't someone please put them back into their cages! Get this son, we are not going back into the box so get over it, this isn't 1968 and ye aren't looking over Burntollet Bridge today.

Any man who states Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are simply "front men" in the Republican Movement is obviously not too well informed in the subject.

Also, "other organisations" are "involved in the equation", the GFA is not specific to the IRA but to all armed groups as well the RUC and British Army, another example of your shocking ignorance on the subject. I also notice you skipped right over the points about De Chastelin and the decommissioning process, and I again ask you, are these people "murdering scum"?

Regards Drumcree, so you are now condemning people for not being prepared to have a sectarian, racist organisation with links to the UVF parading down Nationalist areas brandishing pictures of sectarian murderers? What would your view be if the Afrikaaner Resistance Movement wanted to march through
Soweto? Nationalists will not be humiliated by people who declare them an inferior, second-class version of people and they will also resist efforts by their British masters to force bigots through Nationalist areas.

Finally, regarding the British Army and RUC, the majority of people killed by the IRA were legitimate targets so your point is irrelevant really.

mycroft

FTA69 wrote:

Finally, regarding the British Army and RUC, the majority of people killed by the IRA were legitimate targets so your point is irrelevant really.

Well thats comfort to the thousands of people killed or hurt by the IRA

Johnny_the_fox

FTA69 wrote:

RUC

the RUC no longer exist... they are the PSNI... the last time i walked pass the station.

How are the PSNI - meant to move forward with out the input and support of Sinn Fein??

FTA69

mycroft wrote:

Well thats comfort to the thousands of people killed or hurt by the IRA

I never belittled anybody's suffering, I was simply rejecting horeb's assertion that the Brit Army or the RUC's death toll does not matter at all considering the majority killed were combatants (a lie as it happens).

FTA69

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

the RUC no longer exist... they are the PSNI... the last time i walked pass the station.

How are the PSNI - meant to move forward with out the input and support of Sinn Fein??

They are the RUC with brand new uniforms and a new name, the differences between the two are as minimal as the differences between the UDR and the B-Specials. While they were mass raiding houses in your city several weeks ago did they seem all new and improved to you?

Sinn Féin will participate in the policing system once the Patten reforms have been implemented in full, that is a situation only the British Government can bring about and until that then we will not be a part of an unreformed paramilitary force.

Johnny_the_fox

FTA69 wrote:

They are the RUC with brand new uniforms and a new name, the differences between the two are as minimal as the differences between the UDR and the B-Specials. While they were mass raiding houses in your city several weeks ago did they seem all new and improved to you?

Sinn Féin will participate in the policing system once the Patten reforms have been implemented in full, that is a situation only the British Government can bring about and until that then we will not be a part of an unreformed paramilitary force.

While Sinn Fein wait in the wings... it is really going to speed up the process.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

jesus_thats_gre

FTA69 wrote:

Finally, regarding the British Army and RUC, the majority of people killed by the IRA were legitimate targets so your point is irrelevant really.

This is totally incorrect, the majority of people were innocent civilians. Coincidently, it was stated categorically on RTE last night in the documentry about Joe Cahill.


What about the IRA men who were killed by the then RUC and British Army, were they legitimate targets? Self defence and all?

dabhal

daveirl wrote:

Interesting because I can show you a picture of LVF decommissioning right now.

QUOTE]

I take it thats from the 1998 media sham

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

A Dub in Glasgo

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

That is not happening right now!!

A couple of redundant handgusn and some metal pipe being put to the saw... whippee

I think evidence of the extend of decommissioning is essential, not necessarily photographic evidence but at least let DeChastilin publish a list of the specific quantities destroyed. The Provos won't even allow that to happen.

If the murders of Gerry McCabe are getting out early I'll be damn well needing substantial proof of what's been destroyed.

So who will ensure that weapons are not produced or bought in the future. The whole photographic thing is a sham and it is not really about negating a possible threat as weapons can be bought so easily now. The most important thing is to change the mindset and humiliating republicans and showing that they 'surrendered' will not change the mindset.

I bet the ODC's in Ireland have a bigger arsenal than the IRA now.

A Dub in Glasgo

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

This is totally incorrect, the majority of people were innocent civilians. Coincidently, it was stated categorically on RTE last night in the documentry about Joe Cahill.

You are correct, just the same way that the majority of people killed in Iraq are civilians yet we see plenty of people explaining that away as inevitable.

What about the IRA men who were killed by the then RUC and British Army, were they legitimate targets? Self defence and all?

Yes. They would not have been charged with muder, the IRA man would have been in the exact same circumstance.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

dabhal

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

How is what I said a lie?
I said the pics would be more than they are doing now. That would be true and was meant to highlight a positive aspect of whole pictures issue, thanks for dragging it down about 20pegs.

jesus_thats_gre

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Finally, regarding the British Army and RUC, the majority of people killed by the IRA were legitimate targets so your point is irrelevant really.

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

This is totally incorrect, the majority of people were innocent civilians. Coincidently, it was stated categorically on RTE last night in the documentry about Joe Cahill.

You are correct, just the same way that the majority of people killed in Iraq are civilians yet we see plenty of people explaining that away as inevitable.

So are civilians legitimate targets?