Old style registrations (pre 1987)

BrianD3

I'm just trying to remember the letters used for each county for the old style reg plates before the current registration format was introduced in 1987. The only one I can remember is Kildare which was "ZW" I think. Can anyone recall what any of the others were. Might make a fun (albeit anoraky:)) thread if people try to list them all out.

Also does anyone remember the exact format of the regs. I know that the last of the plates before the changeover consisted of a number followed by the county code. So a typical number might be 1234 ZW. Before that, the letters were before the numbers and there was a prefix before the county code eg AZW 1234, BZW 1234 etc. And before that the format would have been ZW 1234.

As regards the AZW, BZW etc. did the A and B signify a particular year (i.e. similar to the British system) or did they just signify a batch of numbers allocated to each county. If it's the latter then a rural county might still be on "A" while Dublin would have moved onto a later letter.

Anyone have any info?

BrianD3

mike65

Waterford was KI (useless fact - our first car here was RKI 73)

Mike.

greglo23

i can tell you that in Cork it was ZK and IF in the County as in ZK 302 which was my dad`s old Prefect, and PI in the city. when the numbers ran out they started using API 123 and so on. when those ran out they changed and put the numbers first as in 1234 PI and so on. the new system is far simpler. by the way what do you think of the english system as in 04 for one part of the year and 54 for the next part. seems crazy to me!!!

BrianD3

i can tell you that in Cork it was ZK and IF in the County as in ZK 302 which was my dad`s old Prefect, and PI in the city. when the numbers ran out they started using API 123 and so on. when those ran out they changed and put the numbers first as in 1234 PI and so on. the new system is far simpler. by the way what do you think of the english system as in 04 for one part of the year and 54 for the next part. seems crazy to me!!!

This complicates matters. I never knew that some counties had more than one code (i.e. ZK and IF for Cork county) Thought it was just the one code per county. I vaguely remember that Cork = ZK and knew that the city used a different code to the county.

Your post seems to suggest that counties went onto the next batch of numbers whenever they ran out rather than it being a yearly or country wide thing. So you might have a ZZK 1234 being issued in the same year as a TZW 1234 due to more cars being sold in Cork than in Kildare. And you might go from say SZK 9999 to TZK 0001 in the middle of a year.

I agree that the new numbers are handier but are less enjoyable for those of us with trainspotter tendencies

BrianD3

knifey_spoonie

Laois was CI

There was no set year mark you had to know the numbers registered in the county to find out what year the car was

This was futher complicated by dealers puting demo's on a General trade plate which ment the car could be run for any amount of time without being tax or registered, a car could have spent a year on the road but have just being registered in the last week

The general trade plate is long gone

greglo23

they only used 3 numbers as in AZK 999 and then went to BZK 1. also they did`nt use Q on any registrations. another Cork reg was ZF and a Limerick one was IN

Capt'n Midnight

All the ones down south had an I or a Z in them, all had up to 6 characters , if there were three letters then 1-999 and if two letters 1-9999. each county had letters assigned to it and IIRC tipp north and south had different letters.

Nothing to do with the year - up in NI you could have three letters and 4 numbers.

DZO was Dublin

[edit] new plates - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Vehicle_Registration_Plates - includes links to statuatory instruments

BrianD3

This was futher complicated by dealers puting demo's on a General trade plate which ment the car could be run for any amount of time without being tax or registered, a car could have spent a year on the road but have just being registered in the last week

Interesting. AFAIR, anytime someone bought a new car they would almost always drive around without any plates for a few days/weeks/months. I don't know if they had some arrangement with the garage whereby the car was still owned by the garage and covered by trade plates or something? Or were they just merrily driving around untaxed and unregistered with the gardai turning a blind eye?

BrianD3

dahamsta

greglo23 wrote:

...and PI in the city.

S'right! First family reg I can remember was 772 BPI, a Midnight Blue MK1 Ford Fiesta with scary bright red interior! I've lusted after MK1's ever since. Ah, that hollow yet tinny engine!

adam

BrianD3

772 BPI, a Midnight Blue MK1 Ford Fiesta with scary bright red interior

A Mk1 Fiesta would probably have been registered sometime between 1976-1983. The fact that one part of the country had moved on to 123 BXX numbers by this time confirms what everyone is saying about how numbers were allocated. In some counties, they had only gotten on to 1234 XX (or maybe even ZXX 123 for very small counties) by the 1987 changeover.


BrianD3

impr0v

I think Westmeath was LI.

The disadvantage with our very neat current system, when compared to the english, is that an 04 car bought today will be seen as being a year older in 3 and a bit weeks. A shift (04.5!) in the middle of the year would at least cut that down to 6 months. I'm sure the evil dealers would love it too, as it would spread the huge business they do at this time of the year across twice the time period.

Capt'n Midnight

BrianD3 wrote:

Or were they just merrily driving around untaxed and unregistered with the gardai turning a blind eye?

BrianD3

oh no
They had to have a piece of cardboard tied on with string displaying the words "for reg" , usually, sometimes or maybe that was for the new owners ...

dahamsta

That Reg was a right rich bastard, that's all I can say...

Silvera

Old series (pre 87) registrations live on today ! (in two forms)........

'ZZ' Temporary plates, and
'ZV' Vintage plates.


I too recall car owners driving about with FOR REG plates attached.......often for months on end.

I also recall a garage owner driving his Renault car for c.6 years on trade plates !!

Trade plates, General or Limited, were never meant to be used in this way. They were for temporary use only. But a blind eye was usually to this practice by 'the men in blue'.
Many garage owners even made up their trade plate registration numbers in standard colours (for their own everday cars) to try and 'disguise' them !

(I have also seen a few cases of current trade plates made up on 'europlate' style plates)


Wicklow was NI
(then ANI, BNI, etc etc)

Seth Brundle

Cavan was ID
Dublin was YI (amongst others)
Galway was IM
Kilkenny was IP
Leitrim was IT
Mayo was IS
Wicklow was NI

$Leon$

BrianD3 wrote:

This complicates matters. I never knew that some counties had more than one code (i.e. ZK and IF for Cork county) Thought it was just the one code per county.
BrianD3

meath was AI and i think monaghan was BI.
Today some counties still have 2 codes
L & LK limerick city & county
W & WD Waterford
TN & TS Tipp
only surpirsed dublin doesn't have 2 or 3!

Hagar

Initially the plates had raised silver letters & numbers on a black background.
This later changed to raised black letters on a reflective background.
White background at the front, red background at the back.

When they ran out of 3 letter & number combinations in Dublin they briefly went to 2 letters and 4 numbers.
Then they reversed the old 3 letters & and number to 3 numbers and letters.

Personal licence plates were a rarity. Notable exceptions were Dublin plates CSI 633 on a BMW 633 CSI and KIlkenny plates VIP 1 and RIP 1 ( bought by a local firm of undertakers AFAIK )

Lots of ambulances had regs like DZO 999 and ever second Saab was DZO 900 or similar.

CrowdedHouse

Kildare was ZW and also (earlier?) IO

BrianD3

A couple of people have now mentioned the Dublin "DZO" reg. What part of this is the county/city code and what part is the batch letter. Did it go DZA, DZB etc. or AZO, BZO etc. Or is the whole thing the county code?

BrianD3

CrowdedHouse

AFAIK when they got to DZO 999 the next car registered got EZO 1

Interceptor

BrianD3 wrote:

A couple of people have now mentioned the Dublin "DZO" reg. What part of this is the county/city code and what part is the batch letter. Did it go DZA, DZB etc. or AZO, BZO etc. Or is the whole thing the county code?

BrianD3

ZO, ZA, ZS, ZN, ZE were all Dublin registrations and they ran through the prefix letter very quickly - my uncle had PZS on an '84 renault and I had XZS on an '84 Honda.

I had FZO 86 on an '80 Yamaha RD350 and NZO on an '81 Mini

ZR was Wexford, ZB Cork

My favourite was the Wicklow registered '85 Golf with 1 ONI and it used live on the Southside of Dublin with the letters spaced to read one-on-one!

'c

BrianD3

Just found out another one from my mate.
Offaly = IR.

This thread has close to a full list of counties at this stage. I'll compile a list later and see what's missing.

BrianD3

Interceptor

BrianD3 wrote:

Just found out another one from my mate.
Offaly = IR.

This thread has close to a full list of counties at this stage. I'll compile a list later and see what's missing.

BrianD3

Most counties had two or three sets of letters and they moved them around in several combinations - when I was a kid in Wexford it was MI and ZR and it went from MI 1234 to MI 9999, then AMI 123 to XMI123 then AZR 123 to YZR123 then 1234 ZR ending at 8500 ZR in 1986. Enniscorthy was IC, Kilkenny IP and Waterford City WI. It made dating cars very difficult, and impossible when someone from Donegal (ZP) drove into town!!

'c

2 Espressi

clare IE
Don't think its been listed yet

CrowdedHouse

2 Espressi wrote:

clare IE
Don't think its been listed yet

...........my first car was 463 OIE (sigh!).....

Must mention Tipp :

FI (North Riding)

HI (South Riding)

Silvera

Kildare's first reg 'IO 1' is still with us !

It's on the 1907 Silver Stream car (a unique car built in Co. Kildare!... like a Rolls Royce of the period) in the privately-run Museum Of Irish Transport in Killarney, Co. Kerry.
If any of you guys are down there, it's well worth checking out the museum.
ALL of it's vehicles bear old Irish registrations.
( It also has a NI reg RED DeLorean !)


Actually, isn't it high time that Ireland had a purpose-built National Transport Museum ??
We are the only country in Europe that doesn't !!


(BrainD3, all Irish old reg letter combinations are in the link provided by an earlier poster to this thread)

BrianD3

BrainD3, all Irish old reg letter combinations are in the link provided by an earlier poster to this thread

Ah, that takes all the fun out of it But thanks for letting me know about the link, I hadn't checked it.

I see there are two pieces of legislation covering the old plates - the 1958 act and the 1970 act. Each act has a list of reg codes with the 1970 Act amending the earlier list. One thing I notice is that take Laois for example.
1958 Act lists Laois codes as CI only
1970 Act adds KCI - ZCI

You would expect this as presumably the CI regs had been exhausted by 1970 so they would have moved on to regs with a prefix. But where's ACI, BCI and the other letters up to JCI? I'm guessing that ACI-JCI may also have been exhausted between 58 and 70 and it wasn't deemed necessary to include them in the 1970 list.

BrianD3

Silvera

No worries BD3 !

Interestingly, we were told by 'officialdom' that the new reg system was needed in 1987 because 'all combinations had been exhausted'.

Not true !!

For example, County Carlow alone had/has c.23,000 unissued old registration combinations !
Likewise for many other counties. It was Dublin (and perhaps Cork) that was running out of combinations.

I wonder if these 'unused combinations' will ever be issued ?
(E.g. For classic cars or as personal registrations)

BrianD3

For example, County Carlow alone had/has c.23,000 unissued old registration combinations !
Likewise for many other counties. It was Dublin (and perhaps Cork) that was running out of combinations.

Yeah I remember seeing a lot of 1986 cars from less populus counties (i.e. most counties outside of Dublin and Cork) with regs of format "1234 XX" Presumably this meant that they had at least another 26 X 999 combinations left with the first being "1 AXX"

But it would have been extremely messy if in 1986 they had taken unused reg combinatiosn from say Carlow and allocated them to Dublin. It probably would have caused a few heart attacks in motor tax offices around the country

TBH, the old system would have been unsustainable during the car boom of the 1990s when many more regs wer being issued than ever before. At least with the current number system, we shouldn't run into any problems until 2087....

BrianD3

Silvera

True. But (as usual) 'officialdom' tried to make us thing that ALL counties combinations were coming to an end.

I suppose this discussion is lost on many viewers/posters in this forum that probably weren't even born when old regs were still being issued.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to issue unused old style regs to imported 1970/1980's cars (which are now increasing in numbers) ?

Silvera

Correction BD3 - we have already run into (albeit minor) problems with the current system.

Case in point :

03-WX-1 was issued to a 1903 vehicle many years ago !
(I presume they just skipped this reg in january 2003).

BrianD3

Wouldn't it be a good idea to issue unused old style regs to imported 1970/1980's cars (which are now increasing in numbers) ?

Yep, I'd agree with that idea. I still find it strange to see someone who has imported or reregistered an older car and is running around with a reg like 65-KE-3 or whatever.

The more pre 87 cars that use the new number system the more chance there is of a mess up/duplication when say 2065 comes around. But the real fun will start in 2087. Number format will probably have to be altered slightly to take account of the century.
<edit> you beat me to it with the tale of the 1903 reg!

And I agree that there will be many younger people reading this forum who will think this whole discussion is nuts

BrianD3

Silvera

Especially when vintage cars (over 30yrs old) can get 'ZV' registrations when imported here !

Other future duplications I have seen (i.e. regs already issued to vintage cars) -
31-LH-15
55-D-1 (the Lord Mayor in 2055 won't like that! )
53-W-26...........etc etc

Strangely I have yet to see a 1940's 'new style' reg

Victor

The formats started with A1 - Z1 for the entire UK

Z and I were for Ireland.

The initial series went from X1 to X9999 (I think) where X = any letter.

Then XX1 to XX9999.

Then XXX1 to XX999 (not XX9999).

SI was Dublin.

16-D-1 (or was it 16 D 1) was in the film Michael Collins (doh!)

Silvera

Yeah, I recall that reg too Victor !

Great researchers on that film - NOT !! :rolleyes:

sceptre

BrianD3 wrote:

Or were they just merrily driving around untaxed and unregistered with the gardai turning a blind eye?

Blind eye I think. There were plenty of people who seemed to drive around without plates for months.

Victor_Meldrew

Did anyone ever notice that CIÉ used to use the letters, 'BIK' quite a lot on their buses?

Silvera

CIE probably 'bulk booked' a batch of BIK registrations.

The Army regularly did so.

Silvera

.......incidentially, how do you put the fada over the "E" in CIE ?

Victor_Meldrew

ctrl + alt + shift + e - A difficult manoevre, involving two hands. The fact that my diligence has been noticed has made it all worthwhile though

It's strange how the old registrations became etched in our minds. They were so much more characterful than the dull, 04 - D - xxxx nonsense we have today (and them Europlates make it look even blander).

Silvera

CIÉ..........I did it

Yeah I suppose nostalgia plays a part in it, but the old registrations had a little bit of 'mystery' about them, i.e. most people couldn't figure them out


The only bit of variety in the current system is when you spot a cherished plate that matches the cars model number, e.g. a BMW 520 with the reg 03-D-520 or the rare(!) occcassions when you see a very low number on a reg e.g. 04-WW-4

Actually why is it that we see so few really low reg numbers ?
(I rarely see one below four digits - i.e 04-DL-xxxx )


I would like it if we now had the choice of some form of reg plate that we could transfer from car to car.

For example,
The govt could issue a number and county letter(s) to people (for a fee of course!) which they could keep and transfer to their next car etc etc

Say, for example, somebody in Wicklow could apply for the number - WW-200 (or 200-WW) or a person in Donegal could apply for 5500-DL etc).

Victor_Meldrew

Dublin Bus tends to pre-order its registration numbers to correspond with the fleet-number for instant recognition purposes. For instance, on bus RV417, the Reg plate reads, "98-D-20417" (obviously they didn't get in there early enough for '417' on its own).

fjon

Victor_Meldrew wrote:

ctrl + alt + shift + e - A difficult manoevre, involving two hands. The fact that my diligence has been noticed has made it all worthwhile though

Or you can do Alt Gr+ Shift+E if you want to do it in 3 fingers

I actually notived the hand-pulled "Bin-Trailers" that the corpo workers use in town use the old style registrations still - ZV XXXX

Silvera

fjon,
Are you sure they are 'ZV' registrations, as ZV is reserved for (imported) vintage cars over 30years old

fjon

I'm 99% sure! I'll have a look next time I see one.

Go Harvey Go

BrianD3 wrote: »

Yeah I remember seeing a lot of 1986 cars from less populus counties (i.e. most counties outside of Dublin and Cork) with regs of format "1234 XX" Presumably this meant that they had at least another 26 X 999 combinations left with the first being "1 AXX"

But it would have been extremely messy if in 1986 they had taken unused reg combinatiosn from say Carlow and allocated them to Dublin. It probably would have caused a few heart attacks in motor tax offices around the country

TBH, the old system would have been unsustainable during the car boom of the 1990s when many more regs wer being issued than ever before. At least with the current number system, we shouldn't run into any problems until 2087....

BrianD3

I reckon that when the old system ended it had only around two years left in it before problems began.

Clare, Kilkenny and Wicklow were getting close to the end of their respective series with Clare finishing at 107 XIE, Kilkenny at 235 UIP and Wicklow at 426 TNI, and there were only two marks that had not yet been issued - IG (now used by Fermanagh) and VI.

Had the old system continued beyond the end of 1986, Clare would have completed IE at the end of 1987 or the start of 1988, and then probably taken IG - reserved marks issued from 1982 onwards tended to be as close as possible to the original marks of the counties that took them, like for instance Limerick County taking IV after completing IU, and Tipperary South Riding taking GI after exhausting HI.

That would have left just VI, and the headaches would have probably started then, with Kilkenny and Wicklow set to complete their series at roughly the same time - which would have been around the start of 1989.

bazz26

This thread is 5 years old. :eek:

What is with the zombie thread resurection in the ast day or two, is there a full moon tonight or is it just because that the pubs were closed today?