Ahern does McCabe Killers U-Turn

mike65

Remember how the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe were not to be allowed early release under the GFA or as part of a deal? Well FlipFlopAhern has changed his mind.

IRA killers' release part of N.Irish deal
Wed 1 December, 2004 14:43

DUBLIN (Reuters) - The IRA killers of an Irish police officer could be released from prison early if a comprehensive political settlement for Northern Ireland is reached, Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern has said.

As London and Dublin edge rival Catholic and Protestant parties towards a deal to disarm the IRA and revive Northern Ireland's regional government, Ahern indicated the release of the four men would be part of the package.

"If we are to get a comprehensive deal, I believe this would be part of it, and I would recommend that that would be the case," Ahern told the Irish parliament on Wednesday. "I don't see us being able to deal with it otherwise."

The killing of police detective Jerry McCabe in 1996 has been a highly emotive case in the Irish Republic, and early release for the four men serving between 11 and 14 years for his manslaughter would be highly unpopular.

and

from de paper

Senior Fianna Fáil sources said last night that East Limerick TD, Peter Power has met the Taoiseach privately in recent days to tell him the four McCabe killers should not get early release.

Last night, Mr Power refused to verify that he has had a meeting with the Taoiseach on the issue and would only say: “I am deeply concerned.”

Mr Power is known to be in ongoing talks with Ann McCabe, the widow of D

Mike.

Pataman

Unbelieveable, simply no words can express my anger that these smarmy thugs are getting their freedom back. Not much good to the memory of Jerry McCabe. Also what message does it send out to the Gardai in general. We had the chief state solicitor in Limerick warning the other day that it won't be long untill a garda is shot and then we have this! Some deterrant, not that I am in favour of capital punsihment, but at least it was there as a threat to the criminal. A bad day for society in Ireland.

Sand

So long as we do what the IRA says, no one gets hurt. Clearly this is more important than the morale of the Gardai, the family of the dead, or the indeed principles like the rule of law and a sense of justice. Happily, the families of these bank robbers/terrorists will be able to welcome their relatives back for a happy christmas.

And no one will ask the question, that if the killers are indeed to be considered under the GFA prisoner releases, then surely their bank robbery and the IRA accepting responsibility for their actions represents a clear and flagrant breach of the IRA ceasefire and indeed the open evidence the IRA engaged in organised crime?

Hmmm
Aren't they due for release soon anyway?
With Paisleys Sack cloth and ashes comments combined with Gerry Adams comments today that things aren't looking as hopefull, they might be out in the normal course of events by the time a deal is struck anyway making this issue a non event.
Especially when Ian Paisley is doing the negotiating, he's in no hurry.

mike65

Earthman wrote:

Hmmm
Aren't they due for release soon anyway?/they might be out in the normal course of events by the time a deal is struck anyway making this issue a non event.

They should get out after doing thier time not cos of a grubby deal which as I say means a policy u-turn. That they may be due release at about the right time (if thats how it turns out) is irrevelent.

Mike.

gandalf

This is disgraceful. Ahern and the others in FF should be ashamed of themselves.

The scum that carried out this execution (and that is really what it was) should be left in jail to rot!. Then again I feel the same way about the "freedom fighters" and "loyalists" who got out up North as well.

BuffyBot

Surprise surprise..

billy the squid

These men were not arrested and jailed because of a paramillitary operation, they were arrested and charged because they murdered a garda who tried to file a Bank job. that is it really.

The good friday agreement shouldn't even apply here. If it did then every IRA member would be trying to avoid every crime on the statute books. "Oh I cant go to jail for not having a TV licence, Im in the IRA and protected by the good friday agreement."

Why don't we free all the bank robbers while we are at it.

arcadegame2004

I strongly disagree with the above comments here. Are you saying that an RUC officer's life is worth less than that of a member of the Gardai? If so then I find that despicable.

The emotional pain of the McCabe family is no less or no more than that of the victims of IRA terrorism in Northern Ireland. Yet we demand the release of IRA terrorists and thugs in the North who have killed hundreds of members of the RUC. Is this not the height of hypocrisy?

One of the factors that have hampered the progression of the peace-process since 1998 is the hypocrisy of our Southern politicians, in demanding that Unionists accept something that our Southern politicians themselves refuse to accept.

Our Southern political parties - other than SF - say that they will never enter government with SF until the disbandment of the IRA etc. Yet at the same time, they have been trying for years to get the UUP and now the DUP to join a power-sharing government with SF. Sorry everyone, but as much as I despise SF and their policies, and even more so their terrorist background, I have to admit that we in the South are only engaging in incredible hypocrisy if we insist that Northern Unionists accept things that we ourselves are unwilling to accept.

This sort of NIMBYism only plays into the hands of Big Ian, who can forever invoke the Southern politicians' refusal to release the killers of Det.Garda Jerry McCabe, together with the refusal of Southern politicians to enter government with SF as evidence that there is one rule for the South and another for the Unionists. They can say to us, "Why should we enter government with SF when you won't?", and "Why should IRA killers who killed RUC officers be let go when you won't release IRA killers of Gardai?".

Do as I say, not as I do, is the saying that springs to mind here. Hundreds of Unionist families, and indeed Nationalist ones, had to endure the trauma of seeing the murderers and maimers of their family members being released from prison in NI, yet down here there is political horror at the idea of the killers of ONE Garda being released. Hypocrisy is the only word I have for this. We have already released the killer of Garda Tom hand, so I just don't understand this attitude.

I despise the crimes of the monstrous IRA, but the future matters more than the past and we should stop writing Big Ian's excuses for him!

Meh

arcadegame2004 wrote:

The emotional pain of the McCabe family is no less or no more than that of the victims of IRA terrorism in Northern Ireland. Yet we demand the release of IRA terrorists and thugs in the North who have killed hundreds of members of the RUC. Is this not the height of hypocrisy?

If you see no difference between the Republic and the North, yes. In a normal democratic society, murderers should not be released to appease their terrorist buddies. The Republic is a normal democratic society; Northern Ireland is not. That's the difference.

This sort of NIMBYism only plays into the hands of Big Ian, who can forever invoke the Southern politicians' refusal to release the killers of Det.Garda Jerry McCabe, together with the refusal of Southern politicians to enter government with SF as evidence that there is one rule for the South and another for the Unionists. They can say to us, "Why should we enter government with SF when you won't?", and "Why should IRA killers who killed RUC officers be let go when you won't release IRA killers of Gardai?".

Ian Paisley campaigning for the release of IRA killers, I thought I'd never see the day.

bonkey

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Our Southern political parties - other than SF - say that they will never enter government with SF until the disbandment of the IRA etc. Yet at the same time, they have been trying for years to get the UUP and now the DUP to join a power-sharing government with SF. Sorry everyone, but as much as I despise SF and their policies, and even more so their terrorist background, I have to admit that we in the South are only engaging in incredible hypocrisy if we insist that Northern Unionists accept things that we ourselves are unwilling to accept.

Aren't you comparing two entirely different things though?

The Southern political parties have said that they would not enter a coalition with SF prior to the dissolution of the IRA, etc. etc. etc.

That is not what they are encouraging the Northern parties to do.

There's a world of a difference between "I will not take my seat while they take theirs", and "I will not enter into a coalition with these people".

I see no hypocracy in that. The Irish parties are doing exactly what they are asking the Northern parties to do - which is not shut down the government because you don't like the validly-expressed democratic choices of some of the nation.

jc

Sleepy

Sand wrote:

So long as we do what the IRA says, no one gets hurt. Clearly this is more important than the morale of the Gardai, the family of the dead, or the indeed principles like the rule of law and a sense of justice. Happily, the families of these bank robbers/terrorists will be able to welcome their relatives back for a happy christmas.

And no one will ask the question, that if the killers are indeed to be considered under the GFA prisoner releases, then surely their bank robbery and the IRA accepting responsibility for their actions represents a clear and flagrant breach of the IRA ceasefire and indeed the open evidence the IRA engaged in organised crime?

If they were acting on the orders of the IRA, it was a breach of the cease-fire and therefore not acceptable for release under the good friday agreement.

If they weren't acting under the orders of the army council, they were common criminals and should be treated as such.

Case Closed.

PH01

arcadegame2004 wrote:

The emotional pain of the McCabe family is no less or no more than that of the victims of IRA terrorism in Northern Ireland. Yet we demand the release of IRA terrorists and thugs in the North who have killed hundreds of members of the RUC. Is this not the height of hypocrisy?

At first glance I would have to agree with you there. If the release of Garda McCabe's killer is so distasteful, imagine what it's like for the for all those families of murdered RUC men and women? It's hard to argue against that?
However, there are clear differences behind the motives that lead to Garda McCabes murder and that of the murders of most of the RUC men and women. Most of the murders of RUC men were carried out as part of a political belief be it warp. The murder of McCabe was part of a robbery.

It seems like the real peace loving people of this island are suffering for the sins of others.

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Our Southern political parties - other than SF - say that they will never enter government with SF until the disbandment of the IRA etc. Yet at the same time, they have been trying for years to get the UUP and now the DUP to join a power-sharing government with SF. Sorry everyone, but as much as I despise SF and their policies, and even more so their terrorist background, I have to admit that we in the South are only engaging in incredible hypocrisy if we insist that Northern Unionists accept things that we ourselves are unwilling to accept.

It not hypocrisy. The key difference here is that the Republic is a sovereign state while Northern Ireland isn't. Power sharing in Northern Ireland is akin to power sharing in a local authority.

swiss

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I strongly disagree with the above comments here. Are you saying that an RUC officer's life is worth less than that of a member of the Gardai? If so then I find that despicable.

The emotional pain of the McCabe family is no less or no more than that of the victims of IRA terrorism in Northern Ireland. Yet we demand the release of IRA terrorists and thugs in the North who have killed hundreds of members of the RUC. Is this not the height of hypocrisy?

I'm confused. Who specifically in this thread has stated that the life of an RUC officer is worth less than that of a garda? Or perhaps you reach this conclusion by inference, by comparing the outlash against the proposed release of IRA prisoners who have killed gardai to the outlash against those who have killed RUC officers, and conclude that less of an outcry equates to a devaluation of the lives or RUC officers.

Irrespective, your cry of hypocrisy is inaccurate because your analogy is flawed. Jerry McCabe was killed during a foiled bank robbery, whereas many of the operations which led to the murder of RUC officers in the north were in the context of the ongoing paramilitary operations of the IRA. Premeditated capital murder of Gardaí by the IRA had no paramilitary mandate. This was a purely criminal operation.

As has been pointed out, your comparison of the political situation in the north and south of Ireland with respect to Sinn Féin is also flawed. Sinn Féin, as much as I despise them, are the largest nationalist party, and consequently have a mandate to govern along with whatever coalition of Unionist and non-partisan parties are prepared to enter government.

The same cannot be said of the south. Sinn Féin may be growing, but they are still a minority party. There is no mandate for them to enter government, either by agreement or by constitution. The northern situation requires good faith and a gradual democratic evolution away from paramilitarism. This has long been ensured in the south, and consequently including Sinn Féin/IRA in government down here could be viewed as a step backwards, as opposed to a step forwards in the north.

billy the squid

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I strongly disagree with the above comments here. Are you saying that an RUC officer's life is worth less than that of a member of the Gardai? If so then I find that despicable.

That was not what I said. I didn't even mention the RUC in my post. go read it again. What I said was that the murder of Gerry McCabe was part of a Bank robbery, A civil crime, not a paramillitary offence. The fact that these thugs claim to be members of the IRA is merely coincidental.

One of the factors that have hampered the progression of the peace-process since 1998 is the hypocrisy of our Southern politicians, in demanding that Unionists accept something that our Southern politicians themselves refuse to accept.

It still doesn't change the fact that Gerry McCabe was murdered as part of a bank job.

This sort of NIMBYism only plays into the hands of Big Ian, who can forever invoke the Southern politicians' refusal to release the killers of Det.Garda Jerry McCabe, together with the refusal of Southern politicians to enter government with SF as evidence that there is one rule for the South and another for the Unionists. They can say to us, "Why should we enter government with SF when you won't?", and "Why should IRA killers who killed RUC officers be let go when you won't release IRA killers of Gardai?".

There is a difference between some acts carried out by the IRA in northern ireland to the one carried out in Adare. The difference is that these IRA members were robbing from the group of people they wanted to be associated with, the residents of an independent Ireland, hows that for hypocracy.

gandalf

Arcadegame who exactly said that RUC Officers lives were worth less than Gardai's. It wasn't me.

What I was saying with my comment is that FF should be ashamed because John O'Donohue gave Gerry McCabes widow a letter stating his murderers would not be released under the GFA. Shows how much their word is worth now doesn't it.

Again I will re-iterate my opinion, no one should have been released early, they should all be rotting in jail still for their crimes and joined by half the British Intelligence community operating in the North as well.

helpdogscat

gandalf wrote:

What I was saying with my comment is that FF should be ashamed because John O'Donohue gave Gerry McCabes widow a letter stating his murderers would not be released under the GFA. Shows how much their word is worth now doesn't it.

if they are released it would be as part of the agreement trying to be reached now, not as part of the GFA, so no word would be broken

DukeDredd

Good old FF have lost my vote forever because of this - and i know many of my friends are the same.

doh.ie

Well, I don't agree with them being released at all, but the only consolation we can all take is that the media here - particularly the tabloids - won't allow them to restart their criminal lives. These men will be treated like the pariahs they are by the public and media alike, at least if they stay in this country.

Not that they probably have any conscience in regard to their actions, but they certainly won't be allowed to forget.

arcadegame2004

Regardless of whether the IRA Army Council gave the orders or not, I would be willing to accept their release IF, in return, the IRA were to wind itself up. The fact that SF are demanding their release does suggest that the IRA Army Council may have ordered it in spite of earlier denials. We have already let the IRA killer of Garda Tom Hand out so we are being hypocritical if we don't let the McCabe killers out.

The distinction between "sovereign state" and "regional devolved administration" cuts little ice with me. One of these distinctions is based on the fact that in the South our Government controls the police. However, from what I have heard in the media, control of the PSNI would be a power devolved to a restored NI Executive. That weakens the distinction even further then, further undermining the arguments against the release.

I obviously despise these murderers, but we need to think of future generations and not forever dwell on the past. After all that's what we tell NI to do.

Cork

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Regardless of whether the IRA Army Council gave the orders or not, I would be willing to accept their release IF, in return, the IRA were to wind itself up. The fact that SF are demanding their release does suggest that the IRA Army Council may have ordered it

But than why can't SF/IRA supply us with the facts. Who actually ordered it? Who was on the IRA's Army Council?

These people should serve then full sententences. Let SF jump up and down about it. But no way should the IRAs grubby arms be used as leverage to get these ******** (People) out.

jonny68

Im delighted at this decision and not before time as well....

arcadegame2004

But than why can't SF/IRA supply us with the facts. Who actually ordered it? Who was on the IRA's Army Council?

These people should serve then full sententences. Let SF jump up and down about it. But no way should the IRAs grubby arms be used as leverage to get these ******** (People) out.

No way should IRA weapons be used as leverage to get their prisoners out? Didn't the DUP say that in the "No" campaign over the GFA? We should stop handing the DUP more ammunition to use to block the implementation of the GFA and southern politicians should stop the collusion in recent years with the DUP via trying to make political-capital out of this issue, e.g. FG.

Ken Barrett is likely to be released soon having been jailed over the murder of Pat Finucane after all.

We need less hairsplitting over "regional administration/sovereign government/ When the NI Executive gains control of security those differences, in so far aa they relate to security, will be far smaller, making the ravings of those saying they will never enter govt with SF in the South all the more hypocritical. May I add that I am far from being a cheerleader for SF and quite frankly I cannot understand why anyone would vote for them but the fact is that the latest polls indicate they will have the balance of power after the 2007 election. Then I wonder how reluctant FF and others will be to do a deal with them? But we shouldn't have to wait until 2007 for the hypocrisy, and the deal-obstructing consequences of it, to end.

Let's not demand things of others we aren't prepared to do ourselves!

ailinne2002

Certain questions need to be asked about the legitimacy of IRA operations.

Firstly at the beginning of the conflict in 1969 the Irish Government sent its troops to the border with the intent on defending Nationalist in the occupied region. The Irish Government has a Constitution obligation to defend Irish Citizens from murder. The Irish Government failed and Irish Nationalists formed the Provisional IRA to do the Governments work.

Question. Will the Irish Government now defend Irish Nationalists who are being killed by English and Loyalist Soldiers.

Question. If the Irish Government fail to defend Irish Nationalists from being murdered in the six counties, can those Nationalists form their own army and defend themselves.

Question. If Irish Nationalists are allowed to defend themselves and need to because of the failures of the Irish Government are they allowed to raise finance by whatever means neccessary in their own country.

Meh

ailinne2002 wrote:

Will the Irish Government now defend Irish Nationalists who are being killed by English and Loyalist Soldiers.

Question. If the Irish Government fail to defend Irish Nationalists from being murdered in the six counties, can those Nationalists form their own army and defend themselves.

Question. If Irish Nationalists are allowed to defend themselves and need to because of the failures of the Irish Government are they allowed to raise finance by whatever means neccessary in their own country.

You seem to have your facts wrong there, nationalists in Northern Ireland weren't protected by the IRA, they were in need of protection from the IRA.

The IRA killed more Catholics during the Troubles than the British army did (source)

Cassiel

Think they got their deal when they just got manslaughter convictions. I was reading today about the guy in England, David Beiber, who got himself a whole of life sentence for the murder of one police officer. Those armed robbers should have been put away for 25 years minimum.

billy the squid

ailinne2002 wrote:

Certain questions need to be asked about the legitimacy of IRA operations.

Firstly at the beginning of the conflict in 1969 the Irish Government sent its troops to the border with the intent on defending Nationalist in the occupied region. The Irish Government has a Constitution obligation to defend Irish Citizens from murder. The Irish Government failed and Irish Nationalists formed the Provisional IRA to do the Governments work.

Question. Will the Irish Government now defend Irish Nationalists who are being killed by English and Loyalist Soldiers.

Question. If the Irish Government fail to defend Irish Nationalists from being murdered in the six counties, can those Nationalists form their own army and defend themselves.

and this has what to do with someone murdering a garda in adare in the 1990s?

Question. If Irish Nationalists are allowed to defend themselves and need to because of the failures of the Irish Government are they allowed to raise finance by whatever means neccessary in their own country.

and what happened in the sixties has what exactly to do with a bank robbery in southern ireland in the 1990s?

Sleepy

doh.ie wrote:

Well, I don't agree with them being released at all, but the only consolation we can all take is that the media here - particularly the tabloids - won't allow them to restart their criminal lives. These men will be treated like the pariahs they are by the public and media alike, at least if they stay in this country.

Not that they probably have any conscience in regard to their actions, but they certainly won't be allowed to forget.

You think so?

I'd imagine they'll be standing for election for Sinn Fein within a few years...

luckat

It was inept, cruel and shocking that Mrs McCabe was not informed, at the very least, during these negotiations.

Horeb

mike65 wrote:

Remember how the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe were not to be allowed early release under the GFA or as part of a deal? Well FlipFlopAhern has changed his mind.



and

from de paper



Mike.

I have'nt read the entire thread but this is infuritating to let murders and terrorists out of prison to appease the fenians in the North, men doing their duty shot and killed and that means nothing to the government.

I suppose if I join the filthy IRA/INLA etc and go out and blow a cop away it is okay, get a few years in portlaoise or maybe not, "It was all for the cause"

Me bollox the SF/IRA scum have been into everything for years and now want to be show as honest people...

Who are they trying to Kid, even the loyalists are not a full of sh1t as the fenians :mad:

billy the squid

headline in todays limerick leader.

Anne McCabe: I feel like I am being held hostage

the story is not availible online yet, leader updates its site on saturdays, but it would seem that the government are piling on the pressure on Anne McCabe trying to get her to support these scumbags release.

There was a soundbyte from her on local radio yesterday saying that she doesn't want to be seen to be holding up the peace process.

These people were robbing a bank when they shot Gerry McCabe FACT

and if any pro-IRA poster wants to come forward and type some **** like "move on move on" then I suggest that they go to their fearless leader Gerry Adams first and seek a public apology from him for Anne McCabe.

I can tell you one thing though, sinn fein would save themselves alot of money if they left one constituency out of their election plans next time around. that being Limerick East. especially while there is a chance that McCabes killers could be freed.

landser

i'm not happy about the idea but in the context of an overall agreement, they should be let out. i agree mrs. mccabe should have been informed about it beforehand, but she wasn't and there's nothing anyone can do to change that.

As for the fact that they are in prison for killing a Garda as opposed to an RUC man, i really don't think anyone in the south would give a damn about their release even, if they had blown up an entire RUC station.

If anyone is being held to ransom here, it's not the state being held to ransom by the IRA, it's Northern Ireland being held to ransom by Mrs. McCabe. I feel for her, but there is a bigger picture here, and a lot more at stake than the punishment of two men

as for Fianna Fail, John O'Donoghue is a muppet, who should never have written that letter to the widow. Bertie, does more u-turns than a lost cabbie

Villain

billy the squid wrote:

and if any pro-IRA poster wants to come forward and type some **** like "move on move on" then I suggest that they go to their fearless leader Gerry Adams first and seek a public apology from him for Anne McCabe.

Well I take it that "move on move on" statment was aimed at me.

I have discussed this topic in teh past and really don't have anything else to say, if you want to read the thread here it is: Old Thread

billy the squid

It part referred to your comments , but it also refered to the members of sinn fein who talk about their token moves towards reconsilliation that are insufficient. I read that whole thread thank you very much but still disagree with you, but that is going off topic. suffice to say I think the IRA need to apologise for every man, woman and child that died at their hands whether they died before or after 1996.

Mrs McCabe is holding no one to ransom. and these men were robbing a bank, a criminal offence, it is just mere coincident that they were members of the IRA. I doubt when the clerks in adare were having guns pointed in their face they were asking whether or not these robbers were in the IRA or not.

And another thing, Our government made a written promise to anne McCabe that these bank robbers would not get out of prison. Like someone said earlier. The IRA were supposed to be on ceasefire at the time of the robbery, therefore even if they were under the orders of the IRA, they were breaking that seasefire and in breach of all agreements. If they were not under the orders of the IRA then they were committing a criminal offence hence the Good friday agreement does not apply.

I think it is a disgrace that Anne McCabe is being made to look by being the one to hold up the peace process. All she wants is justice for her murdered husband..

When the call went out from his garda station, he was being sent to a bank robbery not civil unreast.

Phil_321

I think they should be let out if it brings closure to the Northern Ireland situation.
It's not like they would never have been free again anyway, they're only in for manslaughter and haven't long left in their sentences.
There's already been loads released who commited even worse crimes than these guys, they only problem I can see is the government's promise to Mrs. McCabe that they wouldn't be released.
It is unfortunate that they're going to break it, but looking at the bigger picture, it's probably the right decision.

billy the squid

well if they havent that long to go then Gerry adams and his cronies can wait. Mrs McCabe will be waiting far longer before she sees her husband again.

Villain

billy the squid wrote:

It part referred to your comments , but it also refered to the members of sinn fein who talk about their token moves towards reconsilliation that are insufficient. I read that whole thread thank you very much but still disagree with you, but that is going off topic. suffice to say I think the IRA need to apologise for every man, woman and child that died at their hands whether they died before or after 1996.

Mrs McCabe is holding no one to ransom. and these men were robbing a bank, a criminal offence, it is just mere coincident that they were members of the IRA. I doubt when the clerks in adare were having guns pointed in their face they were asking whether or not these robbers were in the IRA or not.

And another thing, Our government made a written promise to anne McCabe that these bank robbers would not get out of prison. Like someone said earlier. The IRA were supposed to be on ceasefire at the time of the robbery, therefore even if they were under the orders of the IRA, they were breaking that seasefire and in breach of all agreements. If they were not under the orders of the IRA then they were committing a criminal offence hence the Good friday agreement does not apply.

I think it is a disgrace that Anne McCabe is being made to look by being the one to hold up the peace process. All she wants is justice for her murdered husband..

When the call went out from his garda station, he was being sent to a bank robbery not civil unreast.

I thought you said you read the other forum???

THE IRA WERE NOT ON A CEASEFIRE at the time Garda McCabe was killed, now I don't wanna to start going over the same things again thats why I posted the link to the old thread.

I completely condemn the killing of Garda McCabe, but it was carried out by the IRA prior to the GFA when the IRA were not on a cease fire, many many many prisioners have been release early under the GFA that carried out just as awful killings. If the early release of these men can help bring about the end of the IRA I have to say I agree with the release.

billy the squid

The men who shot Gerry McCabe were robbing a bank. their IRA status was coincidental.

They will be out as soon as they serve their time, what is the big deal with getting them out early. and what is the big deal with getting anne McCabe to shut up about how she was promised one thing and then had that promise broken.

Villain

Under the GFA they are entitled to early release, they were IRA men carrying out an IRA task. I'm not saying I agree with that but thats the case, IMO men who have carried crimes just as bad have served hardly any time.

bobbyjoe

they were IRA men carrying out an IRA task.

The IRA green book says that attacks against the Guards are not allowed.
Also the IRA denied it was sanctioned originaly.
Sounds more like they were lining their own pockets.
They didn't make much attempt to rob the money from what I've read, executed the Guards instead.

magpie

If the early release of these men can help bring about the end of the IRA I have to say I agree with the release.

Yes, bring about the end of the IRA by letting them all out of jail early. A clear victory for democracy.

Villain

magpie wrote:

Yes, bring about the end of the IRA by letting them all out of jail early. A clear victory for democracy.

But it has been done on several occasions already under the GFA, it's you happen to talk about this case, please read the old thread, Bobby Joe I have gone over all that in the old thread feel free to read it.

Sleepy

bobbyjoe wrote:

The IRA green book says that attacks against the Guards are not allowed.
Also the IRA denied it was sanctioned originaly.
Sounds more like they were lining their own pockets.
They didn't make much attempt to rob the money from what I've read, executed the Guards instead.

If that bit about the green book is true, I think Mrs McCabe would have a very good case against the government were they to release these criminals.

It's a fúckin' cheek to ask for their early release tbh if even according to the IRA's own rule-book, this was a war-crime.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

Under the GFA they are entitled to early release, they were IRA men carrying out an IRA task. I'm not saying I agree with that but thats the case, IMO men who have carried crimes just as bad have served hardly any time.

This has been discussed before.
As you well know these guys were claimed by the IRA after the fact and not during or before.
They were on a criminal job stealing money. P'O Niell who is the know it all wrt IRA operations couldn't have been so ill informed as to rush out a denial.

The clarification or the claiming probably came after a few rushed phone calls explaining they might rot in jail if they were abandoned by the IRA.

Right through the negotiations, it has been made perfectly clear by the negotiaters on the Irish Government side that these guys did not fall under the early release re-mit.

To be perfectly honest, they'll be out soon anyway and it strikes me as rather disingenous of Sinn Féin to be championing their cause ie no deal on the north if their not released as part of it, given that they were on an un authorised bank robbery , killing a Garda in the process and committing a crime that was outside the six counties and had no impact whatsoever on the IRA's enemy.

billy the squid

probably a naive question but is there a reproduction of this green book online somewhere.

or a summary of it.

bobbyjoe

General Order No 8 of the IRA's Green Book or rules states that "volunteers are strictly forbidden to take any military action against 26-County forces under any circumstances whatsoever."

billy the squid

bobbyjoe wrote:

General Order No 8 of the IRA's Green Book or rules states that "volunteers are strictly forbidden to take any military action against 26-County forces under any circumstances whatsoever."

maybe this should be rammed down gerry adams' throat the next time he dephiles Gerry McCabes name by mentioning it.

Sleepy

Hmm, I used the term "war-crime" quite flippantly in my last post but on reflection it might actually be applicable. If the Green Book can be taken to be the IRA's Rules of Engagement, and these clearly forbid engaging "26-County forces under any circumstances whatsoever", the attack on Garda McCabe was carried out without respect to the Rules of Engagement which would constitute a war-crime.

The only flaw I can see to prevent the bastards being brought to the Hague is that the IRA aren't recognised by the UN as an army. Given, however, that they (in their ignorance) regard themselves as an army rather than as terrorists, shouldn't international laws of war be applicable to them?

Villain

They broke IRA rules that doesn't mean they were acting on behalf of the IRA, members of the Garda break rules, doesn't mean they weren't acting on behalf of the Garda. Interesting that out off all the people who qualify for early release under the terms of the GFA its only these two men that everyone has a problem with have a look at my posts here and see who else was released http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=159627&page=9&pp=20

MarxoGouch

http://www.petitiononline.com/eire2004/petition.html

Phil_321

Yeah, what is the particular problem with these two guys being released....... there have been worse criminals released already who have served less time. O.K., the government made a promise to McCabe's widow, but it's not like this government has a problem breaking promises, and there are bigger things at stake here.
Surely, if it helps to bring peace to the North, it'll be worth it.