They have'nt gone away you know.

mike65

from rte

SF member jailed for PIRA membership

30 November 2004 16:48

A Sinn Féin member who was found with surveillance details on Dáil politicians has been sentenced to four years in prison for Provisional IRA membership.

35-year-old Niall Binead from Crumlin in Dublin was convicted at the Special Criminal Court along with co-accused Kenneth Donohoe from Tallaght, who also received a four-year jail term.


Binead was described as a branch secretary of Sinn Féin in Dublin's south city. It is understood that he is a friend of TD Aenghus O'Snodaigh, as well as his election worker.


The court heard that documents found at Binead's home included the names of a number of politicians and Dublin criminals.

These included a note that former Justice Ministers the late Jim Mitchell of Fine Gael, PD founder Des O'Malley, and John O'Donoghue of Fianna Fáil were seen drinking in Rathgar.

The court also heard evidence linking Binead and Donohoe to the scene of what was thought to have been a planned hijacking in Bray in October 2002.

Presiding Judge Mr Justice Diarmuid O'Donovan said that the discovery of the documents, as well as the defendants' insolent and provocative refusal to answer garda questions, backed up the belief of a Garda Chief Superintendent that both men were Provisional IRA members.

Imposing the prison terms, the judge noted that both men had a conviction for threatening to use a weapon during anti-drug activities.

I'd say it was embarrasing but I don't think SF can be embarrassed.

Mike.

Cork

After Binead and Donohoe were arrested, a garda search of Binead’s house found a list naming leading Irish politicians including former Justice Minister John O’Donoghue, Fine Gael’s Jim Mitchell and Des O’Malley of the Progressive Democrats.

link

Maybe, SF has an explanation for this?

Maybe they were doing recearch for a film script or even a book.

bonkey

I've seen quite a lot saying that this guy was a Sinn Fein member. Can anyone clarify exactly what that means?

Was he just a regular subscription-paying member of Sinn Fein? Is he still a member of Sinn Fein?

Cork

bonkey wrote:

I've seen quite a lot saying that this guy was a Sinn Fein member. Can anyone clarify exactly what that means?

Was he just a regular subscription-paying member of Sinn Fein? Is he still a member of Sinn Fein?

Binead is a key election worker for Aengus O’Snodaigh, the Sinn Féin Dublin TD.

But other details are sketchy, I think the media don't want to jepordise the talks going on at the minute by focusing attention on the story.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Sand

Was he just a regular subscription-paying member of Sinn Fein? Is he still a member of Sinn Fein?

Niall Bennet was an election worker for O Snodaigh as Cork has said. Hes also supposed to be a close personal friend of the T.D. He has a previous conviction for threatening someone with a weapon, and he came to the attention of the Gardai recently because he was suspected of being involved in an armed robbery. Hes apparently a community activist, but no one, let alone other community activist have actually been able to say what it is he actually does for the community - one of the reports drew a blank when they asked around. Incidentially, as well as a list of T.D.s, he also had a list of crinimals in his house, which the Gardai believe were to be "taxed" by the Sinn Fein/IRA.

Oh, and this is of course subjective, but having seen a photo of him he looks like a proper skanger.

FTA69

Sand wrote:

Oh, and this is of course subjective, but having seen a photo of him he looks like a proper skanger.

Well, despite the above example of incorruptible evidence I would like to point out the conviction was based solely on the word of a guard, hardly DNA fingerprinting is it?

At the end of the day the man was found with a few names on a sheet of paper and a hammer, this was deserving of 4 years in prison. In other cases a rapist gets let off with a suspended sentence, such is the Free State "justice" system. I'll have to remember to leave my gym membership card at home next time I go to a meeting, I might get caught "on my way to a robbery", those sharp laminated corners could be used to hijack a lorrly full of Lambert and Butlers....

Sand

Well, despite the above example of incorruptible evidence I would like to point out the conviction was based solely on the word of a guard, hardly DNA fingerprinting is it?

The Judge made that same point, he reviewed the Gardai case files and agreed the Gardai had very good grounds for believing him to be an IRA man. He also took into account the car that Bennet bought, with the false number plates, that contained the cs gas, black tape, balaclavas and so on. He also took into account the list of TDs and crinimals that were being targeted.

I think we can be confident that a duck is actually a duck in this case unless all of the above is SOP for SF activists.

At the end of the day the man was found with a few names on a sheet of paper and a hammer, this was deserving of 4 years in prison.

Nah, he was found to be an IRA man. I think 4 years is a bit too mild for membership of an illegal terrorist organisation that targets the overthrow of our Republic, but hey what can you do?

Free State

Republic since 1949 actually. Nevermind though, I understand that the Republican sympathiser mindset is about 80 years in the past.

FTA69

Sand wrote:

The Judge made that same point, he reviewed the Gardai case files and agreed the Gardai had very good grounds for believing him to be an IRA man. He also took into account the car that Bennet bought, with the false number plates, that contained the cs gas, black tape, balaclavas and so on. He also took into account the list of TDs and crinimals that were being targeted.

Republic since 1949 actually. Nevermind though, I understand that the Republican sympathiser mindset is about 80 years in the past.

He did indeed take into account the lists of TDs and stated they "could have been used for entirely legal purposes", charges of spying, robbery etc are all pie-in-the-sky. At the end of the day he was convicted of IRA membership on the word of a guard. Simple as that.

Regards the Free State, to me the Republic is that declared in 1916. It is not the 26-county jurisdiction which the present leaders of Fianna Fáil describe as Pearse's goal incarnate.

Meh

Regards the Free State, to me the Republic is that declared in 1916. It is not the 26-county jurisdiction which the present leaders of Fianna Fáil describe as Pearse's goal incarnate.

The vast majority of Irish people disagree with you there. Oh well, at least you're honest about your contempt for democracy.

poneill

Cork wrote:

....a list naming leading Irish politicians including ....Fine Gael’s Jim Mitchell

Hardly, he is dead.

Maybe, SF has an explanation for this?

Natural causes they said.

M

gdiddy361

Meh wrote:

The vast majority of Irish people disagree with you there. Oh well, at least you're honest about your contempt for democracy.

How does advocating a 32 county Ireland show a contempt for democracy? Democracy is not just the rule of the majority. Go back and read your Locke, Rousseau, Socrates, etc....

One can support a 32 county Ireland and still be supportive of democracy. Now whether or not the majority of Irish people want a 32 county Ireland I do not know as I am not Irish.

helpdogscat

Meh wrote:

The vast majority of Irish people disagree with you there. Oh well, at least you're honest about your contempt for democracy.

if you disagree with what he had to say, then just say I disagree, I don't remember you ever having being voted voice of the Irish people :rolleyes:

helpdogscat

helpdogscat wrote:

if you disagree with what he had to say, then just say I disagree, I don't remember you ever having being voted voice of the Irish people :rolleyes:

are you implying that meh is wrong? and that the vast majority of the electorate here adhere to the 1918 election...
If you are then try this board t'would be more suited.

Victor

poneill wrote:

Hardly, he is dead.

These convictions stem from activities prior to arrest two years ago.

I and given that the judges had sight of the Garda files (a) its likely the word of more than one Garda, indeed it could be the word of quite a few other people also (army intelligence, civilians, foreign police) (b) there was the matter of the illegal activities in Bray.

Meh

gdiddy361 wrote:

How does advocating a 32 county Ireland show a contempt for democracy? Democracy is not just the rule of the majority. Go back and read your Locke, Rousseau, Socrates, etc....

Thanks for the name-dropping, but I think it's you who needs to go back and read the post I responded to.

There is nothing inherently anti-democratic about adovcating Irish unity. But FTA69 thinks the Republic of Ireland (supported by the vast majority of Irish people in numerous democratic elections over the past 80+ years) is an illegitimate government. That's "contempt for democracy" for you.

gdiddy361

Meh wrote:

Thanks for the name-dropping, but I think it's you who needs to go back and read the post I responded to.

There is nothing inherently anti-democratic about adovcating Irish unity. But FTA69 thinks the Republic of Ireland (supported by the vast majority of Irish people in numerous democratic elections over the past 80+ years) is an illegitimate government. That's "contempt for democracy" for you.

You are right. Sorry about that. Misunderstanding on my part....

FTA69

What I am saying is that the 26-Counties cannot describe itself as "the Republic of Ireland" when it's jurisdiction does not cover the entire country of Ireland. It is not the representation of the Irish nation embodied in a state, it is the representation of a section of them and as such I do not see it as the Republic declared in 1916.

BuffyBot

do not see it as the Republic declared in 1916.

You do realise the 90 years have passed since then. What happened then, happened then. Today is reality, and for the most people have learned to live with it.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote:

as such I do not see it as the Republic declared in 1916.

Ah thats ok, you are entitled to have that view but as long as the vast majority, up to 95% of them disagree with your view, expect jail if you bomb shoot , maim or kill to try implement this extreme minority view point.

Zulu

FTA69 wrote:

What I am saying is that the 26-Counties cannot describe itself as "the Republic of Ireland" when it's jurisdiction does not cover the entire country of Ireland. It is not the representation of the Irish nation embodied in a state, it is the representation of a section of them and as such I do not see it as the Republic declared in 1916.

You mean the Island of Ireland is it? And what would you describe it as, these 26 counties?
Who then has claim over the land mass that is China, Russia, Europe, etc.?

Perhaps you should think a little more.

Oggy Doggy

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

So, what country is Ireland in????

monument

From wikipedia...

The island of Ireland (Éire in Irish, Airlann in Ulster Scots) is the third-largest island in Europe. It lies on the west side of the Irish Sea, close to the island of Great Britain. It is composed of the Republic of Ireland in the south and Northern Ireland, a region of the United Kingdom. The population of the island is about 5.6 million people. The population of the Republic of Ireland recently passed 4 million for the first time since 1871, due to immigration and increased birth rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland

FTA69

Zulu wrote:

You mean the Island of Ireland is it? And what would you describe it as, these 26 counties?

The 26 County State.

A Dub in Glasgo

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Ireland was one country (encompassing the whole of the island of Ireland) up until it was partitioned by the British in 1921. Six counties of the province of Ulster were kept under British control whilest the remaining 3 counties of Ulster joined the 23 counties of Leinster, Munster and Connaught in becoming the Irish Free State which later became the Republic of Ireland.

You know why the 3 counties of Ulster were cut off and joined the Irish Free State?

I believe FTA69 is referring to the 'Republic' declared in 1916 and ratified by the will of the Irish people in 1918. That Republic consisted of the whole of Ireland and was known as the Republic of Ireland.

Zulu

FTA69 wrote:

The 26 County State.

Good man FTA, sure we'll put you up in front of the UN: Hello, I'm FTA, President of "The 26 County State". :rolleyes:

Personally I prefer "Ireland", or "the Republic of Ireland" as the name of our little country.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Ireland was one country (encompassing the whole of the island of Ireland) up until it was partitioned by the British in 1921. Six counties of the province of Ulster were kept under British control whilest the remaining 3 counties of Ulster joined the 23 counties of Leinster, Munster and Connaught in becoming the Irish Free State which later became the Republic of Ireland.

Thats very good. Care to explain why we shouldn't be governed by mainland europe/nordic countries? I mean before the British divided up our land, what did the Normans do? ...or the Celts? ...and what of before the Beaker people???

Get over it buddy. You are living in the past.

A Dub in Glasgo

Zulu wrote:

Thats very good. Care to explain why we shouldn't be governed by mainland europe/nordic countries? I mean before the British divided up our land, what did the Normans do? ...or the Celts? ...and what of before the Beaker people???

Is there a point hidden in there?

The facts I stated have a direct impact with current politics on this Island!

Get over it buddy. You are living in the past.

Again, the facts I stated have a direct impact with current politics on this Island. You choose to ignore them?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Zulu

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Is there a point hidden in there?

Yes there was - I was highlighting that our recient history with England is inconsequential in the grander scheme of things - but I can understand that that may have been difficult for you to grasp.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The facts I stated have a direct impact with current politics on this Island!

They certainly do. So does the comunist manifesto. So do a lot of things. That dosen't make them right or wrong. The point is - if you wish to stick with it, these 26 Counties are Ireland.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Again, the facts I stated have a direct impact with current politics on this Island. You choose to ignore them?

...and again I repeat - you're living in the past, get over it.

A Dub in Glasgo

Zulu wrote:

Yes there was - I was highlighting that our recient history with England is inconsequential in the grander scheme of things

Surely you mean our recent history with the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. England is just a constiuent part of the UK.

- but I can understand that that may have been difficult for you to grasp.

Then your understanding is quite flawed

They certainly do. So does the comunist manifesto. So do a lot of things. That dosen't make them right or wrong.

Please point out from my posts where I said it was right or wrong. Again, you seem to want to choose to ignore the biggest impact on this island.

The point is - if you wish to stick with it, these 26 Counties are Ireland.

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands in Northern Ireland

...and again I repeat - you're living in the past, get over it.

I am living in the reality of the present. You seem to want to ignore that reality.

A Dub in Glasgo

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Northern Ireland is a state that is a constitiuent part of the UK.

Do you know why NI was created by partitioning Ulster and allowing 3 counties to form part of the Irish Free State and the remaining 6 counties to become NI?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

A Dub in Glasgo

If NI was independent, I would regard it as a country

Zulu

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

If NI was independent, I would regard it as a country

So, correct me if I'm wrong here, you consider the "26 Counties" as an independent country - you just don't agree it should be called Ireland.

Is that your position?

FTA69

Zulu wrote:

Good man FTA, sure we'll put you up in front of the UN: Hello, I'm FTA, President of "The 26 County State". :rolleyes:

Personally I prefer "Ireland", or "the Republic of Ireland" as the name of our little country.

Considering I'm not the president of the 26 county state I doubt I will be put in front of the UN, wouldn't that be a job for Mary McAleese?

The term "Ireland" is incorrect when refferring to the southern state because it does not encompass the entire country of Ireland.

Zulu

FTA69 wrote:

Considering I'm not the president of the 26 county state I doubt I will be put in front of the UN, wouldn't that be a job for Mary McAleese?

Did you try hard to miss that point? Have another go at it...

FTA69 wrote:

The term "Ireland" is incorrect when refferring to the southern state because it does not encompass the entire country of Ireland.

According to who? "The sothern state" as you call is encompasses most of the island. It is an independant country referred globally as Ireland.
....but then the rest of the world is wrong, and you evidently, are right. :rolleyes:
What is the correct name of this "southern state" so? - or is that it - "The Southern State"

FTA69

It does indeed cover most of Ireland, what I am saying is that the entity of Ireland does not end at the Monaghan border. If your basis is simply a matter of global terminology would you then agree that Ireland did not exist as a country after 1801 since it became a part of the UK and was referred to as such?

Zulu

FTA69 wrote:

If your basis is simply a matter of global terminology would you then agree that Ireland did not exist as a country after 1801 since it became a part of the UK and was referred to as such?

I certinally would not. Ireland was referred to as such after 1801 and internationally wasn't considered by many as the UK - perhaps you should study your history a little better.
(Clue for research: the Catalpa.)

Guy's guy's guy's, this is all getting a bit academic isn't it?

Of course Ireland is/was and is a country,It's just that part of it is legally a region of the UK in the same way as the isle of man or the channel islands are a region of the UK.
Legally at the moment, the Republic of Ireland consists of only the 26 counties and recently that has been the constitutional position aswell.

Zulu

Earthman wrote:

Guy's guy's guy's, this is all getting a bit academic isn't it?

This is true Earthman, but when someone refuses to accept Ireland as a country in this day and age, it makes my blood boil that such ignorance still exists.

A Dub in Glasgo

Zulu wrote:

So, correct me if I'm wrong here, you consider the "26 Counties" as an independent country - you just don't agree it should be called Ireland.

Is that your position?

Correct - the Republic of a large portion of Ireland will do just nicely

FTA69

Actually most did consider Ireland as just another part of the UK, even most of our own people supported that position at one stage, eg the Home Rule Party (who rarely questioned Ireland's position as UK dependent) was by far and away the most popular Irish party.

I also never stated Ireland had "no right to exist", it does of course exist and will remain in existance. What I am saying however, is that Ireland is not confined to the 26 Counties. And as a DIG stated, it is a Republic in Ireland, but it is not the sole embodiement of the Irish nation living in the country of Ireland.

Zulu

FTA69 wrote:

Actually most did consider Ireland as just another part of the UK, even most of our own people supported that position at one stage, eg the Home Rule Party (who rarely questioned Ireland's position as UK dependent) was by far and away the most popular Irish party.

That is highly debatable. There was a massive populas in both America and Austriala (for example) who acknowledged the country of Ireland as being occupied and not part of the UK. This was idea was widely spread across Europe - hence the forgien support.

FTA69 wrote:

I also never stated Ireland had "no right to exist", it does of course exist and will remain in existance.

Nobody said you did.

FTA69 wrote:

What I am saying however, is that Ireland is not confined to the 26 Counties. And as a DIG stated, it is a Republic in Ireland, but it is not the sole embodiement of the Irish nation living in the country of Ireland.

So you would be happier if were recognised as the "Republic in Ireland". :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, this was the comment I had a problem with...

FTA69 wrote:

What I am saying is that the 26-Counties cannot describe itself as "the Republic of Ireland"...

I'm not going to argue over "of/in".

FTA69

There still is a massive population in America and Australia who recognise a part of Ireland is still under British rule.

Look, my position is that the term "Republic of Ireland" implies that the status quo is the embodiement of the Republic declared in 1916 (as was intended when the term came into use in 1949). That assertion is incorrect and as such I refuse to indulge it, any "Republic of Ireland" should include the entire country and not just a part of it.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Victor

FTA69 wrote:

Look, my position is that the term "Republic of Ireland" implies that the status quo is the embodiement of the Republic declared in 1916 (as was intended when the term came into use in 1949). That assertion is incorrect and as such I refuse to indulge it, any "Republic of Ireland" should include the entire country and not just a part of it.

There are a few ways to look at it:

(a) the republic as envisaged is a work in progress
(b) the state that exists is the Republic of Ireland, not the Republic of Ireland
(c) the state has legitimately and democraticly usurped the 1916 republic
(d) the 1916 republic was a failure that will never come about

It would appear that revolutionary republicanism must realise that forcing, cajoling or convincing everyone on the island to agreeing to the 1916 republic is not going to work, now or in the long term future.

FTA69 wrote:

A United Ireland existed as part of the UK of GB and Ireland that was created in 1801.

Well, nominally it existed, even before then, right up to the point where the IRA screwed up.

FTA69

I never made that second quote at all Victor.

Republicans do not seek to cajole or coerce anybody into the 1916 Republic, I believe that people do not need coercing considering most Irish people are in favour of a united Ireland. As far as I'm concerned the only way to find out is through national self-determination ie the Irish people as a unit vote on the issue.

marco murphy

Victor wrote:

There are a few ways to look at it:

(a) the republic as envisaged is a work in progress
(b) the state that exists is the Republic of Ireland, not the Republic of Ireland
(c) the state has legitimately and democraticly usurped the 1916 republic
(d) the 1916 republic was a failure that will never come about

It would appear that revolutionary republicanism must realise that forcing, cajoling or convincing everyone on the island to agreeing to the 1916 republic is not going to work, now or in the long term future.Well, nominally it existed, even before then, right up to the point where the IRA screwed up.

Tiocfaidh ar la eventually(dunno the irish for it.)

bonkey

Poblachtach wrote:

Tiocfaidh ar la eventually(dunno the irish for it.)

Thats the funniest thing I've read all week.

jc

billy the squid

Republicans do not seek to cajole or coerce anybody into the 1916 Republic, I believe that people do not need coercing considering most Irish people are in favour of a united Ireland. As far as I'm concerned the only way to find out is through national self-determination ie the Irish people as a unit vote on the issue.

so blowing stuff up like the IRA did between 1969 and 1994 and in 1996 is not considered cajoling or coersing.

in another thread you said the IRA were part of the republican movement no?