Kicked out of Gloria Jeans

Coffee Lover

Hi, My wife and I went into Gloria Jeans in Cork on Saturday. We had a pram but are concious of not causing obstructions, so we carefully parked it at a table well away from causing one. I can honestly say that we took up no extra space than if we didn't have a pram at all.

But then a member of staff came to us to tell us that it was manager's policy that there were to be no prams in the shop and we had to leave. This was very upsetting especially for my wife, and she felt very discriminated against.

We did not kick up a fuss, as the staff member was only the foot soldier, but I want to know if they can actually legally do this, and is there somewhere I can find out what I can do about it.

Would appreciate any comments.

Regards

Coffee Lover

Nukem

Ah thats horse sh*t :mad:

Granted buggies thsi time of year there are loads in cafes and all that but everyone has an equal right.I would have freaked if that had been me.

Did you ask for names or ask to see the policy,was it on the wallbehind the counter?id write some letter do you know that.Really annoyed by this.

Dead sorry to hear about this in Cork :mad:

dahamsta

I doubt it's against the law, but you could still go the trial by media route. First thing is to check if it's signposted, then tell someone in De Paper your story, highlighting how discriminated against you felt, and the fact that whereas in the old days you could just leave the pram outside and carry the child in, those days are gone. They'll lap it up as a human interest story and the shop will get embarassed and probably change their policy or offer you a freebie. At the very least it'll get them to put up a prominent notice.

You'll have a better chance of getting this in the Echo, but it's worth trying the Examiner first. Don't email, call now while it's fresh in your mind. Ask for the newsdesk and explain the story quickly to the person that answers the phone and they'll put you through to the right person.

adam

maccydoodies

I wouldnt have that. No way. Was there a sign up anywhere in the shop? I would write a complaint to them and demand an explanation. They will probably say "insurance blah blah blah" but thats not right. What if you were wheelchair bound. Would they kick you out then? Ive never heard of this Coffe shop but are they part of a Chain? If so contact the head office first and ask them whats the policy on prams in shops. hth

Nukem

Do as the lads said.Honest man fair does to ya i would have gone skits.
Did they even ask you to put the pram down?

Coffee Lover

Thanks for the quick replies folks.

On a quick look on exit, I didn't see a sign preventing prams.

Yes they are part of a chain, international.

Very valid point on the wheelchair access as well, this will strengthen my argument. I think I will write that letter.

Chad ghostal

You should get on the radio, thats the most rediculous thing iv ever head,
im sure Neil Prendiville would give this some air time.

that really is just idiotic.. :mad: :mad:

dahamsta

Chad ghostal wrote:

thats the most rediculous thing iv ever head

"Ridiculous" has to be the most misspelled word on Boards.ie. Unbelievable how many people spell it with an 'e', which is bizarre cos it doesn't even sound like "red". But I digress...

im sure Neil Prendiville would give this some air time.

Yeah, because you really want that ignorant dick supporting your cause.

Seriously though, the ultra sneaky would pop into the store first to see what they're listening to. Although if it's a chain, it's prolly musak...

adam

Chad ghostal

dahamsta wrote:

"Ridiculous" has to be the most misspelled word on Boards.ie. Unbelievable how many people spell it with an 'e', which is bizarre cos it doesn't even sound like "red". Bit I digress...

i spel bad. :rolleyes:

dahamsta wrote:

Yeah, because you really want that ignorant dick supporting your cause.
Seriously though, the ultra sneaky would pop into the store first to see what they're listening to. Although if it's a chain, it's prolly musak...
adam

he is a dick, but non the less alot of people listen to him.. but any radio station would do.. just a suggestion.
i find it hard to believe having a pram is a reason to be refused admission to a frickin coffeeshop..
especially if people went to the trouble of putting it out of the way.

dudara

That's a wee bit harsh. If they had a sign up, in a prominent position advising you of this policy then they'd have a leg to stand on. As it is, I'd definitely kick up a fuss.

Write a letter to management outlining your grievance. Contact 96fm (Much as i hate Prenderville, this is what the man is here for)

Fysh

Personally, I think that they do have a point in that many prams/buggies these days are massive and take up much more space than they need to. I can see the parallels with disabled access but I don't really see why a small premises should be obliged to provide space for customers to place these buggies. I'm not sure what the legal position on this would be, but I don't think that discrimination is really a valid description - it's not like they said you couldn't come in because you had children. I mean, if you had somewhere to stow the pram (car?) you'd have been allowed back in. It's not really any different to nightclubs being allowed to "reserve the right to admission", i think. Thus I'd expect it to be down to the store to decide, although if you do feel strongly about it, you can start some sort of public awareness campaign, or even just go to another coffee shop that doesn't do this.

It's interesting to see some places implementing policies about this. I find that walking through shops or even streets in town on weekends is made a far less pleasant experience due to the ubiquity of huge prams everywhere - I'm not saying that you are one of these people, but policies that make people reconsider the use of such outsized devices are surely to everyone's benefit.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

couldn't one of you have taken the pram outside for a few minutes while the other shopped?

deRanged

Mordeth wrote:

couldn't one of you have taken the pram outside for a few minutes while the other shopped?

not really - it's a coffee shop.


I had a quick look in passing today and didn't see any signs about prams. If I've time in the morning I'll check in by the counter. I'm sure I've seen prams/buggies there before - at the table by the front, almost out of the place.
I think it's a disgrace. It's a narrow shop with very little space but still there's no call for discriminating against people with kids.

Tiriel

I had a similar experience with Gloria Jeans on Patrick St. Went in for a coffee with my Mum on a break from work during the summer.. she had coffee and I had tea and a bagel with cream cheese. A member of staff came over to the table and advised us to hurry up and leave or order something to eat.. aimed at my mother.. as it is their policy to only allow customers with food sit at tables between 12pm and 2pm.

It was a lousy situation. I felt like throwing the stupid bagel in her face and saying stuff it!!! We left pretty quickly as we were being stared out of it.. but have never gone back in there since.

simu

The place sounds like a slickly-oiled money machine. It wouldn't kill them to be a bit more considerate towards customers. :mad:

JohnK

I understand your frustration but at the same time I can see the point of view of the staff. If the place filled up, which would be easy due to the size of it, you would be causing a major disruption trying to get passed with a buggy. That’s not entirely fair on the other customers. After all, they are there to relax not play "musical chairs" every few minutes because someone else wants to get in/out. That being said however, that policy should be posted very clearly on the door of the shop.

PowerHouseDan

I am not surprised.I work there for almost a year.it was shocking.The owners wife is a right old cow.but he is sound out she makes all the rules thats why i left.The worker was only covering his ass because she would make ya feel this(.) small.She just stuck up driving aroung in her 03 lexus jeep.The staff are grand just everyone is afraid of her.she monitors the cctv system all the time.they made me kick out a load of people one time there was hardly any people in there and about 4 girls walked in 3 of which bought a drink.(all very hot)i had to tell the other one if she doesnt buy something she has to leave.They pay crap there was a american girl working there they paid her 1.50 under minimum wage for under 18and she was 22.

MidnightQueen

I'm really shocked to hear that my locals would do something like that. :mad: They should be shot!!

L!aM

I avoid the place like the plague. Was kicked out once when I was 16 and refused to return since. Gingerbread House may not have mocha triple decaf double espresso frappucinos with sprinkles but they have friendly staff and a nice relaxed atmosphere. A lot more important imo. Ooh and doughnuts.

frodi

I'd check with the equality agency, no buggies is discrimination on family grounds, not allowed. Do they ban wheelchairs, they take up about as much space. All in all i reckon the publicity route is the way to go.

Nasty_Girl

I dunno if you can call it discrimination in a legal sense, it's like when bouncers say they can't let you in with runners on. there's no reason for it (if there is could someone fill me in?). If you ask me the place is just a snotty dump and I wouldn't bother me hole with it. I know of a restaurant down my side of the country that just doesn't allow kids full stop. Some places are just like that.

parsi

The G.J. in the Savoy Centre has such a notice up . Or I seem to remember seeing it there one days and striking it off the list of places to go that aren't McDs when the kids are with you and you're gasping.

During the summer on a sunday I used walk into town pushing the youngest guy in his buggy, wander around and then go in G.Js on Pana for a frappacino, take it outside and sit on the stone block..

frodi

Nasty_Girl wrote:

I dunno if you can call it discrimination in a legal sense, it's like when bouncers say they can't let you in with runners on. there's no reason for it (if there is could someone fill me in?). If you ask me the place is just a snotty dump and I wouldn't bother me hole with it. I know of a restaurant down my side of the country that just doesn't allow kids full stop. Some places are just like that.

Bouncers can discriminate on the grounds of the look on you face if they like (and they do) but it is against the law to discriminate on the grounds of family status. Generally speaking it is only people with small children that use buggies. If they claim that iot is for insurance reasons then let them produce a letter from their insurers saying so.

DukeDredd

Just wondering - if you just told them to F-off when asked to leave what would happen then? There's no way in hell i would get up and leave in that situation - but then again i have no problem kicking up a fuss in public if i know i'm being treated unfairly.

frodi

DukeDredd wrote:

Just wondering - if you just told them to F-off when asked to leave what would happen then? There's no way in hell i would get up and leave in that situation - but then again i have no problem kicking up a fuss in public if i know i'm being treated unfairly.

They would have to call the guards, otherwise it's assault esp. if you are not creating a disturbance or such. I'd love to see McDowells troopadors escort somebody out just beacuse they had a buggy.

Fysh

I don't mean to defend Gloria Jeans here (having only been there once and finding it ok although expensive) but if the policy is regarding buggies rather than children then it's not discrimination based on family status. Believe it or not, humans have gotten by for thousands of years without buggies. It's an inconvenience and a good reason to avoid the place, particularly if the management are arsey about it, but not against the law as far as I know. And if it's for insurance reasons then, yes, they probably should have a letter or announcement to that effect up on display, but if it's not they're still within their rights to do so. (That said, I'm no lawyer so don't take me as gospel).

Like I say, I don't want to defend them - I'm no fan of corporate coffee chains, and would gladly see the feckers chucked out of the country and replaced by local cafes. I'm tempted to say "just don't go there" as a response, and it certainly is one course of action. While I disagree with people on this particular situation, I'd still say that voicing your concerns is a good idea. Places like Kafkas or Fellinis (or even Cafe Gusto on Washingont street) are tight for space but do not (to my knowledge, at any rate) have a blanket ban on buggies or anything else.

But it'd be much better to do so while also getting some sort of wider awareness of this, so that people can make a choice on the matter - try and get papers involved (probably start with the Echo and the UCC student paper, once you find out the finer details on what sort of legal standing these policies have), possibly radio as well. Personally, I wouldn't stop going to a coffee shop because they banned buggies, but then I don't go to Gloria Jeans anyway. Perhaps other people who do go there would think twice in light of this.

Blitzkrieger

I think it's a bit of an over-reaction. There could be any number of reasons for buggies not being welcome in the place and IMO it should be up to the owner to decide. Even if it is a stupid reason and completly unfair it should still be the owner's decision. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. It's hardly cause for a moral crusade.

[inviting a torrent of abuse]They probably just didn't want kids in there. The place is tiny and the buggy probably would take up a lot of space even if it was parked neatly. Can you imagine if a lot of people started bringing kids there and they were looking for a changing room? The place is tiny so children and all there paraphernalia would take up loads of space. A lot of the people they target as customers would probably be put off by having kids in there. The merest suspicion of a dirty nappy/bawling child and I wouldn't go near the place. I've nothing against kids and usually wouldn't really notice any noise/smell, but if I'm looking for a quiet cup of coffee......[/inviting a torrent of abuse]

I've only been in there once but if the staff are as bad as you say I doubt the place would last long. I went in about 1:30 and sat down with my (lovely) cappucino. I wasn't asked to buy something to eat or get out. I even got half a smile when handed my cup - a very rare thing at any place in Cork.

L!aM

Actually, there is nothing worse than a baby crying, especially if you're trying to drink a cup of coffee. Even so, the place is snobby and overpriced, just avoid it. Kick up a fuss just to spite them for being assholes.

Lemming

The use of the "bouncer/nite-club" analogy is *really* inappropriate to arguing the case against buggies. Nite-clubs are by definition "invitation only" and can thus discriminate (to a certain degree) although can have their licensed premises status revoked.

A coffee house is not "by invitation only" and therefore the argument holds about as much sway as arguing that Mickey Mouse is a real talking, walking mouse that lives three doors down and is a supreme court judge .....

My own personal opinion is that if this coffee house seems as bad as some of you say, then stick it to them for the all the crap treatment they've dished out over the years.

Fysh

Lemming wrote:

The use of the "bouncer/nite-club" analogy is *really* inappropriate to arguing the case against buggies. Nite-clubs are by definition "invitation only" and can thus discriminate (to a certain degree) although can have their licensed premises status revoked.

"By invitation only" maybe, and I presume you're making reference to the use of "Right Of Admission Reserved" policies (usually denoted by two huge bouncers who'll eat you alive if you try to get in wearing runners, and a sticker saying R.O.A.R. on the wall by the door).

Nonetheless, the comparison stands. Why? Because the kind of selection applied by a bouncer when choosing who is acceptable for the club cannot be based on ethnic, sex-based, or sexual-orientation-based reasons, according to the law. And banning buggies within the store does not fall under any of those descriptions.

Meaning that, as originally intended, the actions of Gloria Jeans are, much like the actions of many a bouncer, annoying and symptomatic of the establishment's attitude to its customers, but not actually illegal.

jhegarty

try sending an email to neil@96fm.ie

he is the only man for this sort of thing... if he gets up on his high horse he won't let it go for days...