Should Comedy be considered as an art?

AMKC

So comedians in this country get zilch nothing from the Government. Yet artists like films actors etc do.

So do you think comedy should get funding from theGovernment. I mean I can see why they said no last time. Sure every Tom,Dick , Harry, Ann, Mary and Sally will be up claiming they are comidans and looking for funding?

Maybe say ok you want funding you have to perform in a Club, wherever to at least 30 people and for at least 2 hours for a certain amount of weeks a year and then we will fund you but proof needs to be shown first.

Whats your opinion?

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058426454/shoukd-comedy-be-considered-as-an-art

I think you need spell check.

Jim_Hodge

Maybe edit all that to something more coherent. It's difficult to read.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058426454/shoukd-comedy-be-considered-as-an-art

First, what do you think?

Allinall

Funding for what?

TheValeyard

Comedy is a form of art.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123895775#Comment_123895775

There was a 'basic income' for people involved in the arts announced recently, seems that comedians aren't included...

I read its limited to 2,200 people altogether. How do they decide which struggling artist deserves it in general, and who doesn't, I'd love to know.

Good comedy is an art, there's a lot that wouldn't come anywhere near that though

con747

It's all here. https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-culture-communications-and-sport/publications/basic-income-for-the-arts-pilot-scheme-your-questions-answered/

Edit

I'm not sure if that has been updated after the budget.

https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-culture-communications-and-sport/publications/basic-income-for-the-arts-pilot-research-scheme-2022-2026/

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123895989#Comment_123895989

Just to add that good comedy shouldn't need a basic income handout and should sustain itself. Likewise for the popular arts like music. Bad comedy shouldn't be encouraged with state subsidies. There's enough sh1t comedy about already.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123895729#Comment_123895729

Done. I knew I had made one typing mistake but I did not notice the others first time round.

the_pen_turner

i agree comedy is an art form. but i dont see why we should be subsiding it. same goes for any other art forms. if you cannot earn a living from it then its a hobby so get a job to make up the shortfall.

Francis McM

Too many "artists" are getting handouts from the taxpayer , for little or no work, and what work there is is shoddy, as it is. Far far too many scattered all over the country, in a country with the population of a medium -at best - size city worldwide.

We have a shortage of housing - put them building houses or something useful.

Bad art and bad comedy shouldn't be encouraged with state subsidies.  Good artists and good comedians will make it anyway.

taxAHcruel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896020#Comment_123896020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896274#Comment_123896274

I guess if I was to play the devil's avocado and steel man the response to your position here - the argument for subsidizing "bad" art of any genre is that "good" art tends to be the result of the artist failing in the past.

Most people who are not artists or have never worked in the field tend not to realize this. They see the "good" art when the artist in question breaks through.

No clearer can this be when we hear the oft touted phrase of "Over night success". Usually used about artists who will tell you they have been slogging away at their art for donkey's years. Their success was anything but "over night".

But that is how the public often see it. They see the artist and their art and at some level their brain assumes they just came out with that art without any background or lead up.

But the reality is artists need to fail and fail often. And I assume the basic intent behind the project of government subsidies here is to financially give them room to fail.

"Good comedy" and "Bad Comedy" is a good example of this. You look at the most successful comedians and go back to their earliest stuff (if you can find it) and it's almost invariably awful. They got to the level of "Good comedy" either because they had room to fail because they had some nest egg or environment that supported them - or they slogged through with pure determination and endurance. Many of the top comedians in the US for example will tell stories about months living in their car in a car park around the back of the Comedy Store and such like. Or musicians like David Gray who have stories about playing gigs they weren't paid for where the head line act on the night was "all you can eat chicken wings" under which in small print was written "With music by David Gray".

I wonder how much "good comedy" or other good art we missed out on because the comedian or musician couldn't endure the hardship of the absolute poverty in their early days. Giving artists room to fail means giving them room to grow.

Of course the counter to all this - devils avocado to my own devils avocado - is that the poverty and hardship forms the diamonds. The Irish music scene is a good example of this where most of the best music came from hard times and most of what came during the boom years was mostly without any character or charm.

All that said comedians have it harder than some artists like musicians. Mainly because if a band releases a good album then when they tour the fans want them to play all the songs from that album. They can tour an album for years. Some even for decades.

With comedians however when they release their material in an album or a "special" - that material is considered to be "burned" and they have to always make new material for the next tour. It's rare (though it happens) that a comedian has a "bit" that the fans call for at live shows. In the past Dice Clay would be an example of a comedian lucky enough to have that. In modern times a few like Bert Kreischer has his "machine" story which fans want to hear again and again.

But generally they have to have new material on every tour unlike musicians.

NIMAN

Should Alison Spittle be given free money from the tax payers for her 'comedy?

That's a no from me.

Cyclingtourist

You must be joking.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896709#Comment_123896709

Who and about what?

Mefistofelino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896667#Comment_123896667

With comedians however when they release their material in an album or a "special" - that material is considered to be "burned" and they have to always make new material for the next tour.

Henning Wehn touched on this in one of his stage shows.

I do like Bob Servant's response on the reuse of one of his jokes:

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896635#Comment_123896635

the entertainment industry is big, covid truly showed the impact of its closure, with hundreds of thousands out of work overnight, which of course included comedy, the whole industry wouldnt survive without state supports, similar to many other industries, including the corporate sectors, service sectors, tourism etc etc…

forcing people to work in industries that simply doesnt motivate them, wont work, do you really think artists such as comedians would just stick on a pair of boots and toddle off to a site, seriously!

art is subjective, all art, including comedy, is good and bad at the same time

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896818#Comment_123896818

A lot in the private sectors do not get wage handouts like artists do. Look at all the shops or businesses closed in rural Ireland, and indeed anywhere in the western world : you pay rates, insurance, rent, heat light and if you cannot make ends meet, you close. You do not get an income from the government, nor should you.

Art, like music or comedy, may be subjective but cream rises to the surface and if it is good enough, you get handsomely rewarded.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896836#Comment_123896836

the private sector provides other critical societal needs, its clearly obvious now, if we didnt have a functioning supportive state, we wouldnt actually have functioning, critical private sector businesses either, which in turn would lead to a completely chaotic society, whereby by few, if any, private sectors could actually survive, i.e. its a balancing act, although very difficult to achieve a perfect balance.

the thinking of a purely private sector only functioning society is clearly a myth, and ultimately ideologically driven, it clearly leads to anarchic outcomes!

its important to note, im an advocate for state backed ubi schemes, in order to try prevent extremely serious anarchic outcomes, which potential could lead to the end of the human race.

yes modern political and economic ideologies cause the extreme exposure of sme's to 'market forces', but much larger entities, such as large corporations etc, are not as exposed, but are in fact extremely well state and institutionally protected.

a ubi maybe a way of protecting such sme's, providing them with much needed customers, in order to survive, but dont worry, this is highly unlikely to occur, so on we go…..

taxAHcruel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896679#Comment_123896679

I imagine it should be means tested or some other impartial methodology used. A method that certainly should not be employed is allocating funds based on whether we personally subjectively like their material or not. I mean I would love to see funds allocated to comedians in general. If that means some money might go to the likes of Harry Hill - a man who's material and even his mere face bring out violent tendencies I did not think I have - then I will have to live with that :)

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896836#Comment_123896836

cream, whos cream, what are you talking about! theres plenty of well known, well paid comedians that many dont like at all, this isnt how reality works at all, including with comedy!

are all extremely wealthy individuals truly engaged in activities that are morally acceptable and liked by many?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896904#Comment_123896904

Nothing to do with my comment that "Art, like music or comedy, may be subjective but cream rises to the surface and if it is good enough, you get handsomely rewarded."

Nobody needs to be liked by everyone. No singer or artist is liked by everyone. All such an artist needs is enough people to pay enough money to be successful. A car designer does need everyone to like their cars. Some modern BMWs are thought to be ugly by some, but all BMW needs is enough people to pay them enough money to be successful.

If the government pays everyone you get Ladas.

faceman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058426454/should-comedy-be-considered-as-an-art

Comedy is considered art in most other European countries, so it's beyond me why it's not considered art in Ireland. I have never received a penny from Irish funding schemes for projects or festivals but I have received funding from the EU. Its embarrassing.

Every "Tom, Dick and Harry.." etc can apply for funding in other disciplines but it's very hard to get it. You have to put alot of work in to funding applications to be considered.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896913#Comment_123896913

again, this isnt reality at all, many exceptional artists never make a successful career, poverty rates in art communities would be extremely high, many struggling with long term unemployment, mental health issues, addictions problems, etc etc etc, and in some cases, all leading to criminality.

again, the idea of a ubi, is everyone gets a small amount of money to live on, but are free to also work, and again, dont worry, this isnt gonna happen, i.e. we re gonna stay on the same road, which is clearly leading us to a society of anarchy, whereby more and more are unable to fulfill their needs, in particular critical needs such as housing, health care etc etc.

covid pup payments could be seen as a form of ubi, and it worked, it potentially prevented another major global financial crisis, prevented major social breakdown, kept many businesses in business, including many sme's, actually helped create some jobs, but again, dont worry, everything is back to normal now, and pup(ubi), is long gone, so its back to rising escalation of social problems, tis all good!

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896836#Comment_123896836

You do not get an income from the government, nor should you.

to be fair, there are quite a few options for small businesses to apply for grants;

https://www.sage.com/en-ie/blog/government-grants-for-small-businesses-ireland/

seven listed on that page anyway.

back to the topic, it's an interesting question. comedy is writing, and it's performance; about honing words and also being able to perform them in a skilled manner. but i guess many people don't regard it as an art because it's very possible for some people to be funny without (deliberately) having written routines.

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123896809#Comment_123896809

The OP about you know yourself.