Electrocution via USB charger

Escapees

What do folk make of this story?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2025/1001/1536213-inquest-anne-marie-ogorman/

It seems very odd that there's no mention of the charger being examined, but instead it's just assumed that the 20V 2A capability of the USB charger (C type I'm presuming) was sufficient to cause electrocution. I'd be thinking the charger was poorly designed and the DC output was not properly isolated from the mains input. Either that or the charging lead was wet and there was a path from the mains plug to the USB plug, but the length and hence resistance involved would seem to make this an unlikely possibility. Also, I'm not sure the 'consultant' involved in the investigation had any expertise in the area of electronics. It's all very odd.

Cyclingtourist

" I'm not sure the 'consultant' involved in the investigation had any expertise in the area of electronics."

You don't need to be an expert to know using anything electrical in a bath is dangerous. Hint, that's why she had to use an extension.

Apparently there have been a few cases worldwide of similar deaths in recent years, unfortunate but hardly a reason to start getting into nanny mode.

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058425818/electrocution-via-usb-charger

I think the consultant forensic engineer gave a very detailed account of what, in his professional opinion occured. Have you any theories to dispute his findings?

Kimbot

Im sure most people know that electricity and water arent a good mix in fairness.

deandean

Very sad to read this.

The State Pathologist got this wrong: "Dr Okkers said it was well known that water is "an excellent conductor of electricity."" In fact, water (clean, fresh) is an excellent electrical insulator.

It looks like the poor woman got a shock between the charging lead and a (presumably, grounded) water tap.

Big Clive - on Youtube - has done teardowns on some cheap aftermarket phone chargers / power supplies, and he has found a serious lack of electrical isolation between 230V input and low voltage DC output in some cases. But the OEM chargers seem to be well made.

I didn't like the description of a mains extension lead being run into the bathroom!

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866754#Comment_123866754

The State Pathologist got this wrong: "Dr Okkers said it was well known that water is "an excellent conductor of electricity."" In fact, water (clean, fresh) is an excellent electrical insulator

No, she did not get it wrong.

This poor lady died in Dublin, and the public water supply produces hard water, i.e. lots of dissolved ions which conduct electricity extremely well.

Absolutely no need for anything to come into contact with the tap.

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866754#Comment_123866754

"In fact, water (clean, fresh) is an excellent electrical 

insulator"

Good luck with that. LOL

"Tap water, rainwater, and seawater all contain a vast array of impurities, such as sodium (Na+), calcium (Ca2+), and magnesium (Mg2+) ions. Because these ions are charged when present in water, they allow for the flow of electricity through the liquid.

Even a small amount of ions in water can allow it to conduct electricity, so it doesn’t require a large amount of impurities to function as a good conductor."

Does Water Conduct Electricity? Is It A Conductor Or An Insulator?

.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866807#Comment_123866807

No, she did not get it wrong.

So, what you're saying is that the ions are good conductors, not that the water is a good conductor!

As for the story - it is unfortunate that someone was killed but only a feckin eejit hoping for a Darwin Award would take a plugged in item into a bath of water!

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866754#Comment_123866754

That's it exactly. I had my misgivings when I read this article too. I'd love to know what Apple's legal team are saying about this.

I'd suspect it was an after-market or knock-off charger (and why was that not examined in a certified testing house?), and as you said, the isolation between mains and the shield was possibly non-existent. I'd love to know whether you can actually get a life-threatening shock off a safely isolated 5v DC supply, even at 2A..! It's my understanding that ventricular fibrillation only occurs with AC at above 50v AC, and muscle spasms occur above 50v DC.

The other thing that I'd like to know is whether the tap was actually grounded, or where was the ground path in this instance.

As regards to water being an insulator - as far as I recall it is an insulator when pure, but when salts from soaps and from sweat are added it becomes a 'poor' conductor, but at the end of the day we don't know if this poor lady had added bath salts into the tub or what.

Sadly, a family has lost their mother due to an error in judgement, but it's my opinion that the full factors were not sufficiently investigated, OR the reporting of the coroner's hearing was incomplete.

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866855#Comment_123866855

"As regards to water being an insulator - as far as I recall it is an insulator when pure, but when salts from soaps and from sweat are added it becomes a 'poor' conductor, but at the end of the day we don't know if this poor lady had added bath salts into the tub or what."

No tap water isn't 'pure water' and is a good conductor of electricity. Soap or anything else isn't the danger it's the fact it's from a tap.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866667#Comment_123866667

I wonder in this day and age do they.

It's something I learned in primary school.

I'm going to ask my 5th class kid if they know that you should never have anything plugged in anywhere inside a bathroom or near a stink.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866855#Comment_123866855

but at the end of the day we don't know if this poor lady had added bath salts into the tub or what.

It's utterly irrelevant. The water supply in Dublin is loaded with calcium, magnesium and chlorine ions that will conduct electricity just fine. The ions in your sweat would be a drop in the ocean.

Assuming she didn't have a reverse osmosis plant in the attic, the water would absolutely not have acted as an insulator.

This is junior cert level science and lads calling out the coroner on it are just embarassing themselves.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866875#Comment_123866875

Well that was my point - pure water is only commercially available or via an ion filtration method.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866885#Comment_123866885

Ok, that aside, the point about the charger and it being 5v DC, how do you explain that?

Cordell

Tap water have enough ions to be conductive, you don't even need to add bath salts or anything else.

He outlined how a 3m extension cable had been plugged into a socket in the bedroom while his wife’s phone was "just barely in the water."

It's wasn't just an error in judgment, there were many, all stemming from complete ignorance on how electricity works and how dangerous it really is.

Mr O’Gorman told the inquest that he wanted the message to go out about the hazard created by charging a mobile phone in bathrooms so that it could save one other person’s life.

The hazard was created by bringing an extension cable into the bathroom.

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866888#Comment_123866888

Well you posted what I quoted, it was totally erroneous and dangerously misleading.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866890#Comment_123866890

I don't see any mention of that in the article?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866914#Comment_123866914

In reply to questions from Dr Gallagher who observed that mobile phone chargers had a low voltage, the engineer said that an electric current of just 2 amps, which is typical for mobile phone chargers, was "more than enough" to kill a person.

redshift-rider

Most likely a dodgy charger that was not isolated. 5V 2A applied externally to your skin is not gonna do anything to you, bath or not.

Some of the electronics channels examine cheap Chinese tat and a lot of it is dangerous, insufficient isolation etc. In that case the bath is kind of a red herring, a defective charger could electrocute you in various ways (not to mention burn the house down).

Get your USB chargers from a major manufacturer (Apple, Samsung etc) and from a shop whose supply chain you trust to be genuine. All these garish vape/phone shops are selling counterfeit main-brand chargers.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866964#Comment_123866964

Agreed. 👍️

And my point still stands: If it was a 5v Apple charger then why was the charger not tested to locate the source of the excessive voltage?

10-10-20

And as to the individuals who are loosing their rag over the conductivity of water: water when compared on a conductance scale is a "poor conductor". Pure water is even poorer. 50uS/cm to 100mS/cm when compared to 10^7S/cm for some metals.

It's by virtue of the voltage and the current that it becomes problematic as it allows sufficient current to transfer through the body to a ground/earth, sufficient to cause a medical issue.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123866950#Comment_123866950

He's very clearly talking in general terms and not about the specific charger used here.

The article does not say it was an iPhone and it does not say what sort of charger it was.

All sorts of wild assumptions being made here, and I'm not really sure why.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123867062#Comment_123867062

Actually, you'll be interested to know that the RTE new article has since been modified and removed the following sentence:

Although she noted that Mr O’Gorman’s criticism was directed at Apple, Dr Gallagher said it was a wider issue, as the use of electronic devices in bathrooms had become quite common.

The copy of the RTE article with the mention of Apple is currently here:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/calls-for-better-warnings-on-devices-after-dublin-woman-fatally-electrocuted-in-bath-1813142.html

10-10-20

All sorts of wild assumptions being made here, and I'm not really sure why.

Simply, if this is truly a 'low voltage' Apple charger, (capable of outputting 5v to 20v PD) then by virtue all of these chargers are capable causing this type of injury in any situation where there is a ground path and/or water present. My simple point is that we suspect that this statement is untrue and the issue here is that the charger must have either been faulty or incorrectly designed (and I'd suspect not even an Apple product due to their fastidious product design).

That's the issue here and that is exactly what BigClive was alluding to when he tested and investigated various charging devices on his channel.

And if anybody is further interested in debating this then I have the kids "death Dalek" light sitting here in my office as a perfect demonstration of the risks involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EpIxtVVXcE

Cordell

Forensic engineer, Paul Collins, who examined the scene at the request of gardaí, said that an electric current of just 2 amps, which is typical for mobile phone chargers, was “more than enough” to kill a person.

This is a very weird and misleading statement. The charger maybe was rated 5V 2A but that only means it will deliver 2A at 5V on a compatible device, not to a human body. You will never get 2A from 5V on a human body. In order to get electrocuted from a charger that charger needs to be malfunctioning, either from water ingress or manufacturing defect or poor quality or design, in which case its 5V 2A rating will be irrelevant.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123867144#Comment_123867144

Well, I'll admit to making one mistake there - USB PD can up the voltage from 5v in steps up to 20v when a device communicates via the PD protocol, so perhaps up to 20v DC was in play here, but still that's not sufficient for electrocution. And therein lies my argument.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123867167#Comment_123867167

 but still that's not sufficient for electrocution. And therein lies my argument.

What is your argument? I'm genuinely lost as to what you're trying to say. That she wasn't electrocuted??

halosecurity.ie

———€:€:€:€€:&:&--

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123867167#Comment_123867167

No, clearly you can't get electrocuted by the voltage that should be available at the end of the USB C charger cable, so it has to be that a much higher voltage was present there, which makes the paper spec of the charger irrelevant.

How exactly was that higher voltage there? We don't know, not from what was published. I can only speculate some causes: bad charger with no proper insulation between the primary and secondary sides, good charger that had water ingress, water splashed across the charger and extension lead.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123867206#Comment_123867206

Did you watch Clive's video?

I'll spell it out for you. The true source of the electrocution has not been established as we can't just blindly accept that a standard OEM charger (within design safety specs) is inherently unsafe and capable of this type of injury, as it otherwise indicates that this injury has the potential to occur elsewhere (ie: outside of baths).

The suspicion that I have is that it was an unsafe (read: cheap/knock-off) charger (with poor isolation between the mains and the low voltage DC output), and if so this design of charger should not be let into the country in the first instance. I'm inferring that this was potentially a product safety issue and it should be reviewed by CCPC's Product Safety team.

Glaceon

I have an official Apple charger for an iPhone 16. It's rated for 5V, 3A, or 9V 2.22A.