Range anxiety?

innrain

I think @Cyrus posted an excerpt from this video where the guy speaks about innovation and for the next few minutes (it starts around 1:46:20) in particular about electric cars and range anxiety. What it is important to get is that he's not speaking from the EV enthusiast perspective (which we all being labelled here) but from an observer of the innovation in this space.

https://youtu.be/ngQehyF8vDw?si=wvaWE3wCo9yt0mmJ&t=6380

So if none of the features listed are appealing to you, they are not for you.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123758906#Comment_123758906

What happens if you are away from home for a week, and dont want to be using the charger at the location you are staying because it is your friend/relative?

Don't use it

Assume the only charger nearby is hogged by someone and you urgently need to head out.

The vast majority of charging locations have multiple charge points and it's unlikely that a bank of chargers will be hogged for a week

Do people just pull into a nearby pub and ask to use their plug?

No - and you should never drink and drive either

Or what's the scenario here.

You'd use a public charger, as above

Also I often go away for a few months at a time, will my car battery be dead when I get back, or again what do you do here.

No - a cars HV battery does have phantom drain, similar to all batteries, but it's not like the 12V in an ICE vehicle, as long as you leave over 50% in it before you go on your multiple month journey you should be fine for more than a year

I'd recommend overall that you stop listening to oil industry sympathisers on their views of EVs, they tend to be doomsday scenario to try and convince you to stay buying fossil fuels

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123759575#Comment_123759575

This will definitely be a thing. I was talking to someone recently who had to do it at a friend of a friend's who they didn't even know personally, and who wouldn't take payment. If you borrowed €20 in cash from a friend or relative never mind a stranger, you would definitely pay them back. If you actually need something, the person giving it to you should just accept payment for it, end of story.

Flinty997

It's simple if you don't want one don't buy one.

Imagine I spent my time posting on convertible forums why I don't want one.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058422746/range-anxiety

You can use an app like ABRP to plan future routes in different EVs and with different batteries and charging speeds. If you have the subscription you can see live data from public charges, are they working are they occupied. Its a handy way to virtually test EVs your thinking of.

You can also see reviews or check-ins on Plugshare App to see how recently someone has used it. I have a couple that I get notifications from if someone leaves a review. Because I'm curious to see when it comes online.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123761815#Comment_123761815

I dunno anyone staying at my house (or visiting) I would know well enough that I would be to be willing to buy lunch for them. Charging their car the same. I'm not on a super low EV rate either.

If I was visiting someone I wouldn't arrive with no petrol with fuel warnings on looking to siphon their car. Same with the EV. I wouldn't arrive with no charge left. I'd leave enough charge so I could get back to a public charger with a healthy margin.

MJohnston

I think it's worth saying as a long-time BEV owner, you'll only need to use the likes of A Better Route Planner or Plugshare for a small handful of journeys that you're completely unfamiliar with and that take you into the rural peripheries of Ireland.

For 99% of journeys, you'll not need to check ahead of time. For example, I haven't been to Limerick since I've owned a BEV, but I wouldn't even bother pre-planning my journey because I just know the M7 will have multiple hubs to stop at.

My car's sat-nav will show me rapid charge points on the map while I'm travelling (and distinguish them from non-rapid DC chargers and AC chargers) and for most charge networks it'll show me a colour to let me know the availability. A quick tap on the station will show me how many chargers there are, and how many are occupied.

The sat-nav map also shows a circular radius which represents the remaining range, so you can very easily see whether you'll make it to your destination or not.

The only time recently where I've planned my route ahead of time was when I was going from Dublin to Ballydehob in West Cork - I knew there would be plenty of options between Dublin to Cork, but wanted to see if I should "tank up" before passing Cork (because West Cork is extremely sparse in terms of any kind of chargers). In the end I didn't need to because I was able to stop in Skibbereen for lunch one day and plug into the 22kW AC charger and get a full charge.

Flinty997

Different EVs have different navigation systems and if you have an older one (as I do) it might not have all those features. I just use the Apps on my phone with wireless Android Auto. I also have small battery and low range.

Even then in last few years I've only needed to plan a long route twice. It's no different to using your GPS.

But the apps are handy if you don't have an EV but are considering one.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762043#Comment_123762043

If I was visiting someone I wouldn't arrive with no petrol with fuel warnings on looking to siphon their car.

😀 Indeed. Won't get into too much boring detail, but certain situations can still arise. Eg bank holiday weekends in remote, scenic locations, not that well served by chargers. You can top up before you arrive at destination but a few days of driving around takes its toll and you might want to make the whole journey home, if the car has the capacity to do it non-stop. Just relating what this person told me …

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123757992#Comment_123757992

You’re assuming it’s as easy to get access to a working charger when driving as it is to get petrol. I’m pretty sure thats not true because who prepares a longish journey in an ICE car by working out all the places where they’ll be able to get petrol en route?

Yet everyone I know with an electric car (not many TBF) does that. It’s one of the things that stopping me from getting one. High cost is the other.

(I’ve literally never run out of petrol in my life. Come close a couple of times, mind, especially when I was younger and short of money.)

volchitsa

Thats

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123758803#Comment_123758803

That’s useful to know @innrain. I drive a few times a year in the UK and on the continent (France and Spain) - presumably an equivalent exists for those countries too?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123761819#Comment_123761819

See this doesn’t help convince people like me who would really like the idea of an EV but who have serious hesitations. Like the poster above who called people “stupid”, you just come across as pointlessly hostile.

I get the feeling that some people enjoy feeling they’re part of a small group of insiders, and resent “non initiates” joining in. Which is fine for aficionados of cool jazz, or for collecteurs of Shakespeare first editions, but not great for the EV market which needs to go mainstream if it’s going to survive.

Blisterman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762220#Comment_123762220

It might help if you, and the other posters explained a bit more about why you are considering an EV. Because if you just list reasons you don't want to buy one, it's hard to have any kind of good faith discussion about the pros and cons in your situation.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762251#Comment_123762251

What sort of a weird question is thwt? If EVs are better for the environment and if we’re being pushed to move towards them, obviously I’m interested. What I need is to know how to solve the potential issues.

But hey if the immediate reaction to anyone who isn’t already an enthusiast and pretty much an expert is to accuse them of bad faith I think I’ll bow out.

I foolishly thought I might get the same sort of useful info I see on the gardening and pet boards, but clearly it’s a lot more unpleasant on here.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762261#Comment_123762261

Other forums aren't constantly spammed to death with extreme scenarios. I want to build a vegetable garden outside my 50th floor apartment, no I don't have an outside space and I won't be there 6 months of the year.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762143#Comment_123762143

Almost million people a year run out of petrol a year in the UK. Or 1 in 7 depending on report. There are also 10 million who drive in the red a lot of the time.

That you or I don't run out of fuel isn't representative of all drivers.

We do know from statistics that EVs drivers also run out of battery. Just vastly less than ICE drivers. No idea why.

When I prepare for a long journey in my Petrol. Car I also look at the GPS for fastest route, traffic to avoid. For the kids sports events I check how long it's going to take so I'm not late with traffic and sometimes to check for landmarks for when I'm there.

I'm old enough that before GPS I used paper road maps to plan journeys.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762220#Comment_123762220

I'm not trying to convince anyone. I don't care if you want an EV or not. Not even the Govt is trying to convince you to buy an EV. Theres no disincentives from the govt if you buy a diesel.

But ask a genuine question about EVs and you'll get a genuine answer.

But some of these questions are not genuine. If someone has posted a litany of features that EVs don't have, and not mentioned any of the features EVs do have. They don't want an EV regardless how many times they ask the question.

If you at a party and only ask about one girl and not the other. It's obvious where the interest lies. Rocket science it isn't.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762261#Comment_123762261

It's also obvious when someone's not interested.

If not immediately hostile to suggest that if someone doesn't run out of petrol on regular basis they are unlikely to run out battery. But if they do, then stick to petrol. That's just being pragmatic.

cgorzy

I’d probably prefer run out of diesel in my ICE than charge in my EV but I’d prefer neither happens. If I ran out of charge I’d be ringing recovery but maybe there are other options. I’ve the recovery number ready but I’d say running out of charge is an unlikely reason to use it and I would think I’m at least as likely to use it with the Diesel, well ignoring that I use the Diesel less. You have to do a bit more planning for some journeys with an EV, you might not be stopping in the same place as with an ICE, might have to stop for a bit longer, or even make a stop you wouldn’t with the ICE, I don’t find that a big deal because it is not often this arises for me. I go weeks without travelling out of the range so only charge at home those weeks, so I think it evens out time lost to saved.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762101#Comment_123762101

Not entirely sure where in Ireland you can drive for a few days and not ever pass a charger or a 3 pin plug.

But there are certainly are remote areas in Ireland where there are less chargers and some thought has to go into it. But you're not going to drive a petrol until it runs out of fuel without some thought of where will I fill it.

If you want non stop driving for an long as possible (while journey home) just buy a diesel. It's better than petrol in that regard.

What has a bank holiday got to with it?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762473#Comment_123762473

Its not always simple with high pressure fuel rails to get started after running out of fuel as it used to be.

Flinty997

Some breakdown cover on insurance covers EVs running out of battery and some don't.

cgorzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762524#Comment_123762524

maybe running out of charge is better then, especially if I put/waste the time into getting fuel for the ICE. I’ll do my best not to be on the side of the road with either car. Will stick with calling recovery for the EV if it ever comes to it, the possibility of it happening would be too low to influence a car buying decision for me.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762261#Comment_123762261

youve said you are interested in buying an EV, great, so what are the issues that are causing you serious hesitation (in your own words)

mr chips

For people who use this forum regularly, it's a frequent enough experience to see a new-to-here account appear with questions about extreme what-if scenarios, or comments about why they don't plan on getting an EV because it can never work for them, etc. Sometimes those are actually people who are genuinely considering switching to an EV and are open to changing their views based on having their misconceptions corrected, but sometimes it's just someone wanting to be a bit of an edgelord. Your comment above - "You’re assuming it’s as easy to get access to a working charger when driving as it is to get petrol. I’m pretty sure thats not true because who prepares a longish journey in an ICE car by working out all the places where they’ll be able to get petrol en route?", intentionally or not, comes across more like the latter than the former.

But in case that's a wrong impression, a quick answer is that (1) there usually won't be a problem finding a working charger because there are so many now, and the network is growing all the time, and (2) planning where to fill the tank certainly was the norm for me when I was doing a lot of long-distance/cross-border travel in ICE cars, especially if I was still going to be on the road after 10pm. But it wasn't a case of planning "all the places" I could fill up, as though I'd be doing multiple stops over the course of a return trip. In an ICE I usually only had to stop for fuel once or twice whereas nowadays, doing the same distance in an EV … I only have to stop for a charge once or twice.

One time several years ago, I did have a worrying moment on a trip up the west coast of Scotland, heading from Fort William to Portree on the Isle of Skye. I had planned to top up at a particular filling station at Invergarry, which is some 100 miles/160km from where I was headed, but arrived shortly after 8.00pm to find it was already closed - as was every other pump the rest of the way. I ended up nursing the car along at lower speeds, coasting down hills in neutral etc and after about 3 hours I made it to my B&B on fumes, having covered the final 20 or so miles on a tank showing empty. That trip would have been a lot less stressful in an EV - there are more charging points than petrol stations along that route, and they're operational 24-7.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762785#Comment_123762785

Was going to make the same point. Finding a petrol station open after 10 in rural Ireland is nearly impossible. The chargers are nearly always accessible 24/7.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123761183#Comment_123761183

Nah, if I rented a car for the 7 months I'm here in Ireland it would end up costing upwards of 8K or more?

Don't want to have to arrange a rental every time I need it too, I need a car ready to go on the spur of the moment if I need to head out.

So makes more economic sense to have a car costing 15,000 as new in 2019 and still running as new 6 years later ready to go whenever I need it

Additionally I don't always go away for extended periods, it's random depending on work. Some years I'm here for 12 months.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123761800#Comment_123761800

I'm actually fascinated by the replies.. I assumed the debate whether or not to go with EV was like the debate of whether or not to get a Dishwasher machine, vs washing the dishes manually.

Had no idea there was a fanboy following or anything, so didn't mean to offend 😀

For the record I do like the idea of an EV, for environmental reasons if anything, but until one can do everything better than my current setup I don't need one.

Will keep an eye on progress though as I do feel they will get better each year.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762499#Comment_123762499

I think you're missing the point. I'm going to buy an EV, not a diesel. My current petrol ICE can go 700km on a tank. But, I'd still like to drive non-stop across the country, if the EV I buy is able to do that.

My only point was that I agree with the poster who was saying it would be better for people to use private charging capabilities and pay for their usage, rather than not wanting to be under a compliment to someone and then limping home on a half charged battery. I want to avoid charging on the road as much as possible. Bank holidays are when the pressure on limited rural charging infrastructure is greatest imo.

oinkely

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762913#Comment_123762913

What is it about your current set up that can't be replicated with an EV?

The main one (aside from initial budget considerations) is ability to tow that stops me going 100% electric. You can go out and buy an EV that will do upwards of 600 km on a charge (to the best of my knowledge - long range teslas, ioniq 6, id7?)

If i sold my caravan I'd be selling the diesel tow (renault trafic crew cab) straight away also and replacing with an EV van / crew cab. For the moment we are keeping the caravan so have to keep something that can tow it easily. And to note - there are some EVs out there that will tow the caravan, but they aren't in my budget yet.