Extension & Party wall

Bargain_Hound

Hi all, looking for a bit of general guidance here. We at the early stages of constructing a modest extension (Exempted development) at the rear of our Semi D property, currently an L shape and we are extending to square it off per say.

Our builder as recommended to build on the party boundary by replacing the existing fence with a 4" block on flat wall built with parapet wall and suitable capping, built to load bearing spec to support an extension on their side should they wish to extend in future. This would obviously avoid having a "no mans land" gap between 2 extensions and avoid the need to step in internally both sides.

When we approached the neighbour regarding this and the detail they are basically refusing as they will loose up to 100mm of space on their side down the boundary. They have suggested an alternative to our new extension wall up the the boundary line (Instead of down the middle). I feel this does not solve the situation as it would leave the party boundary undefined and legally I'm not sure where that would leave the title of the property overall.

Alternatively, we could build inside the boundary up to the existing fence but I feel this will ultimately have a negative impact from both us and then when they decide to extend in future (as they expressed they were planning in future).

Having review the below; I remain a little unclear on the change of a party structure (currently a fence) to a party wall?

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/section/43/enacted/en/html#sec43
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/neighbour-disputes/boundary-disputes/
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/planning-permission/planning-permission-for-altering-a-house/

Can anyone advise do we have any chance (If done legally) if we cannot agree amicably on a a detail plan forward together?

standardg60

Explain to the neighbour that if they want the extension wall entirely within your property to the boundary line that when they add their own extension they'll also have to build one on theirs and not use yours. So they'll end up losing 200mm of space rather than 100mm.

If they still won't agree I don't think there's a lot you can do but others may advise better.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058422540/extension-party-wall

Our builder as recommended to build on the party boundary by replacing the existing fence with a 4" block on flat wall built with parapet wall and suitable capping,

Makes sense when both are building together. But not great as an external wall. Where will this wall be insulated?

They have suggested an alternative to our new extension wall up the the boundary line (Instead of down the middle). I feel this does not solve the situation as it would leave the party boundary undefined and legally I'm not sure where that would leave the title of the property overall.

They are entitled to say to have to build on your property. This has no bearing on the definition if the boundary or the title.

When they build they would do the same losing twice as much space as you propose. Point this out to them. If they still refuse, there’s not much you can do.

Im not sure what you’re unclear on in relation changing the fence to a wall.

aggywp

That’s a tricky one - it always gets messy when the boundary line and future plans overlap. From what I’ve seen, replacing a fence with a wall does blur into party wall territory, even if it’s “just” a block wall now. Did you check whether the same neighbour agreement rules apply in Ireland as they do under the Party Wall Act in the UK? Curious if anyone here has actually managed to formalise a boundary wall into a recognised party wall successfully.

Bargain_Hound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123867727#Comment_123867727

Great point, and our neighbour did feel that the lines were blurry here

In the end we have gone ahead and the build has started on our side of the boundary and we are thankful for it too. The build to this point has been extremely messy and a lot of groundwork disturbance up to DPC level. Our neighbours did express an un-willinigness deal with disturbances on their side too, for what was largely our gain (Unless they decide to extend in future).

Overall I think it was the best path forward despite the initial drawbacks I thought we would face.

alias no.9

To the best of my knowledge (possibly depending on date of build) the existing party wall will consist of 2 back to back walls built from 4" blocks on the the flat. If the neighbor is amenable to taking down the garden wall and you continuing the line of your side of the party wall, that's as good as you can ask for, if the neighbor extends, they can build their own wall back to back with that.

Bargain_Hound

I think single 4" block on flat suffices and is most common practice. (Fire, sound & structural).

chooseusername

I've often thought about this, if you build up to the boundary line is your neighbour obliged to accomodate your foundation extending into their property