Should roundabouts in/around urban areas be banned outright??

extra-ordinary_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123764465#Comment_123764465

OK, so you think cyclists should just blindly follow that cycle lane across the path of exiting traffic. We'll have to disagree on that one.

If anything, and if I'm cycling along there myself and I intend to turn right around the roundabout, then I take up a position in the centre of the road on approach so that motorists can see my intentions, and I then proceed around the roundabout on the right side of the driving lane allowing other motorists to exit on my left. I then join the cycle lane again upon exit of the roundabout.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123767061#Comment_123767061

So what are you saying? That cyclists should stay off the road because motorists do not respect the rules of the road?

extra-ordinary_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123767195#Comment_123767195

What do the rules of the road say about road positioning when turning right around a roundabout?

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123767694#Comment_123767694

I think you might be describing a situation where someone in a vehicle on a roundabout catches up with someone else on the roundabout and wants to exit the roundabout THROUGH that person? Is that the situation you're describing?

The cyclist has no duty to look back and to their right when circling the roundabout. There is no way the cyclist could be responsible for an impact in the situation you're describing. If a car driver stalls on a roundabout they don't have to cede right of way to people behind them who are trying to exit the roundabout "through" them.

What you're describing sounds like some kind of "motorist privilege" idea where you should be allowed to progress because you're in a bigger vehicle: it's not the cyclists' fault they're in that position, they are exactly where they're "supposed" to be.

I mean, I fully agree that there's a high likelihood of conflict on this roundabout and that "taking the lane" is probably safer but it's not because the cyclist is doing something wrong when the vehicle behind catches up with them.

You seem to be implying that the cyclist would be wrong to keep moving forward while on the roundabout: that is incorrect. Are they in conflict with faster-moving traffic coming from behind them? Yes, but that's not their fault, it's just a poor roundabout design. They are doing what they are supposed to be doing, the traffic behind them must wait.

nomdeboardie

Where did the image in question (post #83) cme from? Is it an artist's impression or a Google Maps / satillite photo? Killiney Towers roundabout (Dublin) went into a configuration like this some years ago and it was reverted by the council pretty quickly; (if I recall correctly, there was a fatality?)

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775560#Comment_123775560

I've never seen it, thankfully, but https://maps.app.goo.gl/gZ5NLPiRUHddKiBK6

hans aus dtschl

It also has a "sister" roundabout just up the road which is even more sketchy: https://maps.app.goo.gl/yFfM6GdP8zeF3Ccg9

Edit: Look at the retrofit effort they did to try and make it work! Wands, the extra "two-can" crossing. You can even see the "before and after" on Google streetview and maps. You can pretty much see the designers figuring out the intent behind the Dutch design bit-by-bit. I imagine they finished this one and then thought "it would be nice now if we rounded out the side bits and protected the cycle lane with a mini island rather than wands".

Aaand…wait for it…look at their big sister up the road, which is just bonkers to the point of unusability:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/xJB3wLrMbcdTug797

Imagine designing that and thinking "job done"! I mean, how on earth is someone on a bike supposed to use that thing? They're either in conflict with main road traffic or with pedestrians or both. What a mess.

As I said previously it was a case of "anything but following the Dutch design" there for a while. If this monstrosity was near me, I'd definitely be heckling my local councillors.

nomdeboardie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775604#Comment_123775604

Ah thanks. So under Dublin City rather than DLR council…interesting

nomdeboardie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775607#Comment_123775607

😨😨😨

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775607#Comment_123775607

The "Big Sister" is basically this design, but without the cycle-only crossings and red cycle-lane colouring:

It’s pretty close to being good. However, there‘s enough land there to make this a cyclist-priorty roundabout instead (i.e., the “dutch style” one posted previously), while this non-priority design should be adopted at the smaller roundabout.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775607#Comment_123775607

The sheer amount of space taken up there on the second one is hardly justifiable. Could probably fit three apartment blocks on the excess land.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775816#Comment_123775816

The "big sister" roundabout is planned to be made into a dutch-style roundabout. The unnecessary size of it shall remain, however.

https://consult.sdublincoco.ie/ga/consultation/wellington-lane-walking-and-cycling-scheme-0

The smaller roundabout is being converted into a 4-arm junction:

The Templeville Road/Wainsfort Road Roundabout was mentioned earlier in this thread, and that is being made into a segregated roundabout also - as parth of phase 2 of the Templeville Road Active Travel Scheme (construction has actually started on this scheme over the summer)

https://consult.sdublincoco.ie/en/consultation/templeville-road-phase-2-section-38-consultation

hans aus dtschl

In fairness they all look way better. For Templeville Road/Wainsfort Road if I were one of the residents living on the corner I might prefer signalisation though. There's 8 properties there where owners are being tasked with exiting their property over a footpath, then cycle track then joining directly onto a roundabout. Maybe it's very quiet most of the time and they'll be happy with the roundabout though!

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123777938#Comment_123777938

They mention why they didn't go with a protected junction in the options report (Option 5)

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123778398#Comment_123778398

Yep don't get me wrong, what they've proposed will be better for anybody other than the residents of those 4 houses!