Impromptu TNG Runthrough

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123787597#Comment_123787597

I agree. I remember though watching first time round thinking she was a bit if a ride but, being 15, my head wasn’t doing the majority of the thinking 😜. Looking at the epishde now I don’t feel she adds very much and sending her off with Q was the best thing they could have done with her. Vash certainly didn’t need to be a recurring character. I think it would have been great if Reise had provided her based on Picard’s lighter personality shed to pull him into a caper that diverted him much like the Dixon Hill holders adventures. It really felt more like that than an actual partner for Picard.

I didn’t realise they’d hooked up in real life. I know he married Wendy Neuss and heard that around the time the show was airing. I thought that was the gender for his marriage.

squonk

Tin Man: The Enterprise picks up a betazoid to enable them to communicate with a sentient ship in Romulan space. Not much to say about this. Good epishde but by tge numbers. Seemed like the pushed is based around autism but substituting mind reading. The betazoid had telepathic ability from birth where most betazoid develops it at puberty. He had several breakdowns abd was a patient of Troi at one point. The gift of tge story was about the ship reaching out to him abd then helping each other. Fur once, on the ship, he had no other thoughts crowding him. Also amuse to a miseries in his career he’s not looked upon very favourably by some federation members including Riker who blames him further death of a friend. Fine solid episode and the story felt straightforward.

Hollow Pursuits: Hollow Sexy Deck. Our first time meeting Lt Barclay, a guy who seems highly unsuited to his job aboard the enterprise as an engineer. Instead he spends his time on the holodeck bearing up Riker, LaForge and Data and gettingbamourous with Troi and Beverly! (Really, is Beverlyntge best he can do in a ship with over 1000 crew!!). Meanwhile some bad things are happening with the ships systems. After Picard tells Geordi to try harder with Barclay he does and Barclay admits he feels uncomfortable around the crew. An actual visit with Troi doesn’t go well after he runs away as her meditation methods get creepily close to Barclay’s holodeck sex romps. Eventually a pissed off Riker has had enough and confronts him on the holders. Just then the antimatter injectors act up pushing the ship into an ever increasing warp level and certain disintegration. In the nick of time Barclay figures out the issue and resolves it and leaves his holodeck fantasies behind. This was a kind of creepy and disturbing episode. Riker nailed it mentioning that actual crew representations shouldn’t be allowed in simulations. He’s right. Rather it should be allowed for legitimate reasons but not to get your jollies with crew members. Although pissed off about her representation as a sex pot love goddess, Troi seemingly lets it go. I couldn’t see that happening in real life. Barclay would have done real damage to these relationships. Also in real life he’d have been transferred.

The Most Toys: Data is captured by a cold for anxious to amass a collection of unique items in the galaxy. Data refuses to cooperate and plays dumb when shown to a visiting fellow collector. To punish him tge capricious Fajo threatens to kill his partner of 14 years forcing data to comply to spare her life. The damage is done and she agrees to help data escape. Fajo felt like the kind of sheister Kirk & Co would have encountered. This had a fair TOS feel to me. It had some of that quirkiness which TNG didn’t really have. Great performance by Saul Rubinek. The ending was the high point for me. Data was beamed aboard the enterprise who returned as they deduced he hadn’t dyed in a shuttle accident as they thought. As he was beaming aboard he fired a disruptor at Fajo intending to kill him and then lied about it, or did he? It seems very unlike data however at the time it was the only logical choice you’d have to think.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123788460#Comment_123788460

Saul Rubinek was great in this. I always thought he should have been in more stuff, I only know him from Frasier and this one episode of TNG.

(They had to bring him in to replace an other actor who was playing Fajo after the poor beggar tried to kill himself halfway through the shooting week.. I've seen both their versions and Rubinek's is definitely better)

And 100% Data intended to fire that disruptor.

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123788499#Comment_123788499

Check out Warehouee 13. He’s a main cast member in that and just as good. It’s a SyFy channel show that’s way better than it should have been thanks to a good cast and good scripts.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123788460#Comment_123788460

Tin Man is one of my top 10 "watching as an adult" episodes.

Speaking of autism I would have only known it as the "Rain Man" thing back in TNG times and always thought that's what Barkley was.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123788499#Comment_123788499

Not only did Data totally intend to fire that disruptor, beyond the times when we was under orders to do so this is one of the few times I remember him intentionally lying to his crewmates about anything.

He intended to kill Fajo, and in a brief moment of what might of been emotional awakening, he experienced enough anger to kill…and then enough shame to want to keep it secret.

It was subtile, and really well handled.

eadrom

Tin MAN.

Good episode. As is The Most Toys.

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123788674#Comment_123788674

Yes, Data is not as black and white as I’d always assumed. It’s only on this rewatch that I see there is a subtle but noted side to him where he exceeds his programming. It’s well done and was so easy to miss watching weekly episode style back in the day.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123788765#Comment_123788765

I made that joke a few pages back and waited to see if anyone got it :)

eadrom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123789075#Comment_123789075

I remember – I got it 😁

breezy1985

I still don't get it.

eadrom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123789202#Comment_123789202

It's from the (very good) Greatest Generation podcast. When they were reviewing the episode, about nine years ago now!, they were amused at Picard's emphasis on the second syllable, Tin-MAN, and it's been a running joke on the show ever since.

https://greatestgen.fandom.com/wiki/Tin_MAN

They've got the audio clip here, which they also still regularly play on the show: https://greatestgen.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Drops#Trek_Lines

breezy1985

Just watching now and I love how Fajo is a collector of unique items but yet he has the Ford Fiesta of spaceships.

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123790171#Comment_123790171

What I forgot to say in my roundup was that for someone who valued unique items, he was taking a huge risk leaving a sentient android alone with his collection. It seems like a massive assumption that a hostile android would place the same value on unique items that we do. Data could have destroyed the lot in minutes for all he knew.

squonk

Sarek: Ambassador Sarek boards the enterprise to negotiate an agreement between the federation and aliens who live in a hut tub sauna. From the get go things don’t look right. Sarek’s people are very cagey about public appearances. aggression a bout of aggression breaks out amongst the crew. This was a great episode. Marc Leonard is great as always. I’ve always thought there is a kind of regalness about. TOS Vulcans that was never captured in subsequent series. It’s great to see this on show. Sarek is suffering from Bandai syndrome which means he can’t control his emotions and his telepathic abilities cause his strong emotions to manifest on the crew. I loved the arguments between Wesley and Geordi. I get the impression it’s what Geordie actually wanted to say to Wesley all along.. the in 10 forward was fantastic. Patrick Stewart and Marc Leonard are great playing off against each other. I’ve always felt Stewart was just tootling along in second or third gear by his standards and here you really see it. He steps it up into at least fourth after the mind meld with Sarek. I thought it was phenomenal. By the end of the scene tge rest of the show seems silly. It was just damn fine acting. What a great epishde.

Ménage A Troi: I forgot this was a Laban’s episode. After a trade conference to which the Ferengi were invited, Troi and Riker take shore leave on Betazed but are kidnapped along with Laban’s but an enamoured Ferengi captain. Fairly much the usual caper you expect in these episodes. By the standards of Laban’s episodes however this was fairly good. Having Riker and Troi along took the silliness off the plot and actually gave Lwaxanna something to do for a change. A pretty decent and use of the engine distortion to send a message to the enterprise was a bit of a longshot but fair enough. Wesley figuring it out was a little stupid but what can you do. At least he turns fiend promotion from acting ensign to actual ensign. First time out for Ethan Philips before he returns as Neelix in Voyager. Not the most fantastic episode but still pretty good for what it is.

Transfigurations: John Doe Jesus. After the enterprise discovered the body in a crashed craft, he has taken a board and helped back to health by Dr. Crusher. Meanwhile, those who are in contact with him experience issues that they have being healed. Eventually, he gets his memory back and realises that he is cost of a transformation into a new species. Meanwhile, the enterprise encounters from his own planet intent on getting him back, fearing those who are evolving and choosing to kill them. This is pretty much a Beverly episode. I did love that Geordie is suddenly hit with the ladies and the implication that Worf is a total ladies man! Also when O’Brien shows up in sickbay with a kayaking injury I couldn’t help feeling it was caused by kayaking after a few pints! Jesus heals him too and even brings Worf back to life after falling off a gantry. Seeing as Klingons have redundant organs he seems to have died a bit too easily. Overall, if any good run of the mill episode.

JayRoc

TOS and even Next Gen vulcans definitely tended to have a serenity and a dignity about them.

Maybe that was partially down to who played them as much as how they were played. Mark Lenard and Leonard Nimoy were both truly excellent actors and really "serious about the craft".

I don't think someone like Joelene Blalock for example had anywhere near the same presence, not that that was her fault.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123790589#Comment_123790589

They didn't realise when they were hiring some t&a for Enterprise that they were stuck with a real Trekkie.

https://www.slashfilm.com/1370218/star-trek-enterprise-jolene-blalock-t-pol-problem/

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123790637#Comment_123790637

They had a knack of doing that. Terry Farrell was also cast based on looks by turned out to be big Trekkie before playing Jadzia Dax. Infamously another victim of Berman’s sexism.

And of course their «Borg Babe» Jeri Ryan ended up being one of the show’s best actors. Which to this day I would guess was a lucky accident given Berman’s track record.

Even when I was a teenager, and thus in that target demographic Berman was trying to hit, I was kind of annoyed by the tendancy to throw at least one woman into a cat suit. I was glad when Troi finally got to wear her sciences uniform again, and it did annoy me how Seven never got her own uniform despite serving as a Crewman. Even after T’pol joined Starfleet, she didn’t get a United Earth Starfleet unform, just another catsuit but with mission patches.

The teenage boy in me was no match for the Trekkie that was annoyed by things like this :P

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123790894#Comment_123790894

"The teenage boy in me was no match for the Trekkie that was annoyed by things like this :P"

Same. They tried to make Jellico look tough by putting Troi in uniform but he was right.

Also Troi, T'Pol and 7 all looked even better in uniform.

They probably didn't even ask these women if they liked Trek and just assumed "bimbo models" wouldn't even know what it was.

squonk

The Best Of Both Worlds - Part 1: No point in a summery of this. I’d say we’ve all seen it numerous times. I loved the sense of urgency from the opening scene. You really get the sense of the imminent Borg threat. Cmdr Shelby is a good character in her own way. I don’t ever remember Riker being as gung ho as she is though but perhaps on the Hood it was so. It would have been a great jumping off point for a spinoff series with Captain Riker. He’s such a strong character by this point it would have worked. I know the deck shuffling was due to Stewart’s contract negotiations and it not being known if he’d reprise the role of Picard into season 4. Even a Shelby spinoff would have been better than what we got with Voysger. In a way I felt it made no real sense for the Borg to capture Picard. They could have taken out the federation as was. Also, as was said earlier after the Q WHO epishde, the federation looks deeply out of touch with what’s actually going on. In this situation the Enterprise is entirely the wrong ship to engage the Borg. It’s a cruise liner, although well armed, but it’s too big sbd has too many children and families aboard. This never occurred to me watching originally but DS9!addressed this well with the defiant and ships actually equipped to fight. Overall a great first half and the first time in TNG we got.. dun-dun-dun… To Be Continued…. dun-dun-dun…dun-dun-dun

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123790915#Comment_123790915

As a teenage boy (ie a little hornball) I too was the target audience for women in gratuitous skimpy costumes. But even I thought the introduction of seven of nine was an insult to the viewer (while simultaneously thinking she was hot, obviously!). It was outrageous tbh and I can totally understand Mulgrew being very unhappy

breezy1985

So pssed at how PIC 3 made Shelby the person who spearheaded the AI linking of the entire fleet. Totally against character and then they jus kill her for the shock value.

If we ever get another show I hope it just pretends that whole stupid plot doesn't exist.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123790974#Comment_123790974

Best of Both Worlds does give us that very brief view of a post-Steward TNG. Captain Riker works, and having Shelby as his first officer/foyle also works very well. For the length of Picard’s absence in BoBW, Riker and Shelby feel like they had nearly always been Captain and First Office of the Enterprise. Even when Geordi refers to Riker as Captain in Engineering mere moments after his promotion, it felt natural.

BoBW is on the face of it a Monster of the Week episode of Star Trek, but within those two parts we got the crashing end of Starfleet’s Golden Era, a stark illustration of how the hero ships we had known for decades were not incincible against an enemy that could only be defeated by luck. We get Riker’s coming of age as a Captian and one of the most compact and effective character introductions I’ve seen in Trek with Shelby.

A TNG with Captain Riker & Selby could have certainly worked, but with Picard being killed off it would have been a different kind of show. A show where even the Captain could be killed off…and thus anyone could be.

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123791039#Comment_123791039

Agreed. Discovery showed how important a good captain is to a Trek show. They started out with Jason Isaac’s as Lorca who was great, then transitioned to Saru which I felt unsettled the show but he was a great character so the show would have survived but then Burnham gutter chair. Awful, but I’d stopped watching by then as her character wasn’t fit to be in Starfleet let alone commanding.a ship. I’m glad Stewart stayed but I am looking forward to BOBW part 2 to get a glimpse of Riker and Shelby. I think the show by then was strong enough to pull off Picard’s departure but the Riker/Picard double act was great so I’m glad it continued.

breezy1985

As a story I like the idea of losing Picard. The problem always was that you lose Stewart too.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123791039#Comment_123791039

I've said this before but The Borg as a concept were utterly terrifying.

(Edit, sorry I quoted the wrong post but I can't change it because..vanilla)

squonk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123791554#Comment_123791554

Terrifying absolutely. Rather than neutering them and stopping short of a Federation-Borg team building weekend they should have used the threat as a catalyst to put the federation on the sane side as the Romulans and even the Ferengi. The enemy of my enemy is my friend so to speak. It could have created some great drama where they would fight together but not quite trust each other and each having their own agendas. Fundamentally the Borg are terrifying and I fundamentally don’t believe that the federation are extra special enough to beat them compared to races like Guinean’s. I think they mishandled the Borg really.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123791765#Comment_123791765

They're the definition of an existential threat. Moreso than the Dominion, far more.

The Roms, the Feds, the Klingons, The Ferengi and whatever race Morn was from should have banded together without a moment's hesitation to fight what was clearly the biggest bad they were ever going to come across