Relocating company premises

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As a survival plan assume a company is considering moving to a premises a third the size/cost. Assume a TUPE exists where employees would revive 6 weeks pay per year worked uncapped if the company made compulsory redundancies. Assume Voluntary redundancies have been done at near statutory in the recent past.

If the employee claimed and won their case that they were entitled to redundancy because of the move would it be TUPE or statutory redundancy because they request it?

Would need to confirm with company solicitors in either case, but theoretically speaking?

Dublin Calling

Once they are made redundant, if they have extra rights under TUPE they are entitled to them.

Dial Hard

TUPE wouldn't apply in the case of an existing company simply moving location.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058419647/relocating-company-premises

A business relocating would not normally lead to redundancies.

In the "good old days" this would/could lead to a package for extra travel time etc.

Revenue also allow relocation expenseswhere relevant

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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123637626#Comment_123637626

The TUPE was established when the hypothetical company transitioned from a US multinational company to a UK owned parent company. There are strict rules regarding compulsory redundancies under the TUPE.

There’s also significant case law where relocation was deemed giving rise to redundancy.

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There seems to be a number of cases where it did.

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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123637626#Comment_123637626

The TUPE only applies to compulsory redundancies.

Would relocation and requested redundancy (by an employee) be treated as compulsory or voluntary?

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638002#Comment_123638002

Well it would have been helpful if you'd included that information in your first post rather than framing it as a simple relocation.

Anyway, it would appear you're looking for legal advice regarding a very specific scenario as opposed to discussing "hypotheticals", which is against the forum charter, so I'm out.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638017#Comment_123638017

If it's just a relocation and the employee requested redundancy, then of course it's voluntary.

Dublin Calling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638017#Comment_123638017

The WRC in most cases will favor Employees. So they have nothing to lose in lodging cases, which can cost more to fight than paying the 6 weeks wages per year.

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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638049#Comment_123638049

That’s what I’m hoping, but I know some wiser legal heads will know more.

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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638065#Comment_123638065

Now add in most employees have 30 years service and it gets very expensive

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TUPE only comes into effect when a company transfers, I thought that was obvious.

Hypothetical scenarios have been a part of boards… well, since the dawn of boards. Apologies if sensibilities offended.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638040#Comment_123638040

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To add, particulars are fictitious.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638151#Comment_123638151

Gee really?? There were too many 'what ifs' to be factual.

Dublin Calling

TUPE gives the employees the rights they had in their old employer. If I had 30 years service and the company moved, making me redundant. I would be looking for at least my 6 Weeks per year I am entitled to under TUPE.

This is probably not that you want to hear. But is costs an employee nothing to take a WRC case.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638017#Comment_123638017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638139#Comment_123638139

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638002#Comment_123638002

You keep posting "additional refinements" but never mention one of the most important details which is the distance involved.

If the company is moving 200 meters down the road and the employee does not want to move then that are not really entitled to redundancy.

If the new location is another country (or Donegal to Cork for example) then redundancy comes into play

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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638474#Comment_123638474

Distance seems to be a funny one as regards case law, it’s not clear cut.

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By particulars. I mean when I say 6 weeks it may not be 6 weeks. I don’t want the hypothetical to be identified.

But, for some reason I’ve got backs up here, so this can be closed.

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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123638327#Comment_123638327

And worse, when you win the WRC case they can appeal for free to the Labour court (different issue). Being an employer or employer’s agent is a PITA !

Lenar3556

The company is either planning on making employees redundant or it’s not.

As others have correctly pointed out, the moving of premises does not in itself give rise to a redundancy situation. If it’s in the same locality, it may be quite reasonable to expect employees to relocate to the new premises. It is a question of what is reasonable in the specific circumstances. The employment contract would need to be reviewed on this point.

A voluntary redundancy is a separate matter entirely. This is an agreement reached between the parties to terminate the employment on particular terms, and it’s open to both parties to negotiate these.

The employees in this case appear to have significantly enhanced redundancy entitlements arising from their contract of employment. The fact that this transferred to the current employer via a TUPE arrangement isn’t particularly relevant.

As a first step, it would be important to firmly establish the facts underpinning this 6 weeks uncapped, as such a provision in an employment contract is unusual. Incidentally I don’t think the WRC has jurisdiction to consider contractually acquired enhanced redundancy terms. Any award would be on statutory terms. The employee would have to pursue such a claim in the civil courts if contested.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123639209#Comment_123639209

And yet you still don't mention the distance….

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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123640948#Comment_123640948

That’s variable (as in a suitable smaller premises. But, case law doesn’t seem to be black and white on a specific distance. Some short distances were considered redundancies, some relatively long not considered redundancies.