Stick-shift vs automatic for learner

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123524416#Comment_123524416

Neither were personal attacks. Honestly, I'm struggling to come up with excuses for you at this stage.

And since you made no attempt to actually revisit my post and investigate your mistake, you instead tried to attack me directly by using other posts out of context.

So I think I have no further use for you. Welcome to my ignore list.

Hotblack Desiato

snip

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123524129#Comment_123524129

Amy citation?

I’ve never seen a Skoda Octavia mentioned in the context of this thread, either here or on askaboutmomey.

I think you made it up to suit your weak argument.

CivilEx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058414589/stick-shift-vs-automatic-for-learner

OP, after a lot of spirited discussion on this thread - what have you decided to do?

Flinty997

Citroen Ami?

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123524479#Comment_123524479

Citation? Get sense, I didn't represent that it was in the context of this particular thread did I? And no I didn't make it up, what was the weak argument?

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123524229#Comment_123524229

Not really what I said and an mx 5 is a modest car but don't let that stop you.

If someone is representing a manual 4 pot diesel as a superior driving experience to an EV as its a 'proper' car personally I think that's nonsense. Clearly you disagree.

prosaic

Well, I was not expecting such plentiful advice!

Lots of good views on both sides. My heart says learn manual but my common sense(?) and pocket say maybe no need.

I'll be mulling it over for a while yet.

I'm not sure I want to afford her the opportunity to go blazing across the Gobi desert in a dented old 4x4.

magicbastarder

Easier to learn first in an automatic and then 'upskill' to a manual? Spread the cognitive/muscle memory load out?

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, that's how a friend learned and she reckons it was probably better that way.

prosaic

I have fond memories of learning in a Fiat 127. Felt at one with the engine and the road - more visceral than serene. It was a great sense of accomplishment to be able to quickly and smoothly move up through gears.

I don't miss gears at all now however.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123524626#Comment_123524626

Neither is a modest car and certainly not to a learner. In a thread about learners.

If someone enjoys (prefers) driving their ('well it's not a 911 is it') manual 2CV and stirring the petrol with a stick than a auto box . fair play to them.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123524647#Comment_123524647

You're in luck. The 911 Dakar perfect for the Gobi and automatic.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2025/scene-passion/porsche-911-dakar-vietnam-china-nguyen-hoang-anh-38364.html

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123524866#Comment_123524866

I wasn't referring to learners in the post you are responding to though but don't let that stop you.

BrianD3

Auto transmission zealotry is closely related to EV zealotry - because, obviously, all EVs are auto therefore auto = good, manual = bad. Then we get the usual sneers about luddites, the horse & cart and people afraid of change.

Reality is, in any area of life:

It's better have a choice than not to have that choice.

The less dependent you are on others, the better.

The younger you learn a skill that you might need, the better.

There is generally a price to be paid for convenience or taking an easier option.

People don't plan ahead for changed circumstances.

People are notoriously bad at predicting the future, often massively overestimating how quickly technology will progress.

I've seen real life examples in 2024 where people with auto licences needed to buy cheap 7 seaters. Fewer autos available, none available locally, higher prices. Where were the people who, 10 years previously, had advised them to get an auto licence, confidently proclaiming that manuals are obsolete? Easy to be blase with other people's money and time.

I also know people (Dubs) who assumed that they'd never need to drive at all, looked down on the idea as something that only boggers and farmers needed to do. Changed their tunes when their circumstances changed. One lad was nearly 40 before he passed his test, took multiple attempts, auto. He'll never be a good or confident driver. His wife who passed her test in a manual at age 18 does all the driving when they are on holidays.

As for a subjective opinion, I recently drove the Suzuki Swift petrol manual and the Hyundai Inster nearly back to back. As good and spacious as the Inster is, like most EVs it is a dull and unengaging appliance compared to the likes of a Swift. Not surprising given that it is an absurd 400 kg heavier than the Swift. I feel sorry for young people today whose middle aged, know it all, EV zealot parents are telling them that they'll never need/want to drive anything other than an auto EV so no point getting a manual licence.

Flinty997

It's simple a manual license gives you more options. No one is forced to get one.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123524647#Comment_123524647

I'm not sure I want to afford her the opportunity to go blazing across the Gobi desert in a dented old 4x4.

That dented old 4x4 with the manual transmission might be the fastest way for her to get away from the boyfriend you tried to tell her was a PoS.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123525242#Comment_123525242

What a reductive post. "Auto transmission zealotry" is all in your head. Or maybe inhabits one of the chips on your shoulders. For a start, nobody here has said that manual transmissions are "bad". Some straw man right there. And then we have people advised to eschew a manual license 10 years ago. Who in their right mind would advise that in 2015 when probably less than 10% of new cars purchased were automatic?

Yes, it's better to have a choice. But making a choice to get an auto only license does not close the door on a manual license at some later date if needed or desired. It's just another test, but this time with a far more experienced driver. The tone of your post implies a firmly closed door, never to be reopened. What nonsense.

The other anecdotal stuff is irrelevant. People make choices to suit their own situations. They may turn out to be the wrong choices at some later date, but that's pretty much life. And with drivers licenses, not irreversible.

TL;DR Get a grip. You're way OTT.

CelticRambler

But seriously, reading some of the comments above, you'd wonder if we shouldn't be teaching children to hold a pen any more. Sure they'll only ever be typing on a keyboard, or tapping on a phone. Actually, since voice-to-text is a Real Thing nowadays, we could probably save a fortune in teachers' salaries by scrapping spelling lessons too.

Just because a new technology arrives on the scene and is embraced by a significant section of the population of a particular community, that doesn't mean it disappears from everywhere else.

Regardless of the current vehicle-buying habits of middle-class Irish consumers, a mildly ambitious 20-something could easily end up in any European city and make friends with the kind of groups I meet all through the year, who drive ICE-powered, manual transmission cars on incredibly long journeys - typically 1200-1600km in a day.

They share the driving and don't stop for longer than it takes to have a wee (none of that sitting around drinking a leisurely holiday coffee while the EV recharged). I would not want my son or daughter to be the one who couldn't ever do his/her fair share of the driving just because I'd opted them out of the traditional test.

Bogey Lowenstein

A lot of young ones who go to Australia for a year and end up working on a farm or ranch could easily be asked to hop into the battered old ute there and do xy and z for me will you?

Flinty997

The price will be that it's harder with age.

The pass rates do not improve with age. There's good odds it's even worse with people switching to a manual license, as auto tests already have a lower pass rate than manual ones as that earlier link explained. Doing a retest later is only compounding the difficulty.

"...The age at which you have the best chances of passing your test is 17. In fact, pass rates for 17-year-olds stand at 55.8%. "

"....The age at which you have the best chances of passing your test is 17. In fact, pass rates for 17-year-olds stand at 55.8%. As such, those who make the decision to drive as soon as they're able to seem to have the right idea!

There's a huge gulf between pass rates for 17 and 18 year olds, though, with the latter 7.6% less likely to pass.

From here, the trend becomes a little smoother. There's little variation in pass rates between the ages of 19–26, with learners in this age range enjoying pass rates around the national average.

After this point, pass rates enter a relatively steady decline for candidates up to the age of 43—for whom pass rates stand at 35.4%.

Beyond this point, we see more statistical fluctuation. This is due to much smaller numbers of candidates taking their test at older ages.

Of the ages for which data exists, 60-year-olds have the worst chances of passing their driving test: just 32.3%. That's a full 23.5% lower than the rates for 17-year-olds.."

Flinty997

Of course not an issue if you never do the manual test.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123525354#Comment_123525354

Straw men abound here. Firstly nobody has suggested that parents impose on their kids the type of driving test they will do. Unless they're limited by the available cars at home to practice in. And that's relatively easily handled (albeit not as usefully) by using the teacher's car. But it's not an imposition or parental diktat. As if that were ever a thing anyway. Kids have their own minds.

And then the heartfelt plea to "think of the children, this is the thin end of the wedge which will lead to the loss of penmanship". Wut?

As I said above, the OTT reaction to what is a genuine question as to the usefulness of learning in a manual as opposed to an automatic these days, seems like people have been asked to sacrifice their kids to some maleficent deity.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123525242#Comment_123525242

Pretty sure most posters are being realistic and recommending one or the other. For the record, I'm one of those people who learned to drive at thirty, I do regret not learning a year or two early. But prior to that I was living and working in Dublin, had no parking space and extortionate rent so it made sense not to learn. Then when I eventually got back to Cork I learned, I did most of my lessons in a manual but ended up going for an automatic. I'm otherwise very much so a confident driver.

Posters are also not wrong that automatics are far more prevalent than five years back. I know plenty of people who were driving manual up until a year or two ago but their latest car is automatic, just cause that's the car they wanted. Being unable to find automatics has simply become a thing of the past.

Personally I think the OP just needs to judge based on cost and their likelihood of actually needing a manual license. Also nothing preventing them from getting it later in life.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123525242#Comment_123525242

Not a surprise, there are zealots but not the ones you think.

Also most evs don't have gears so aren't autos.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123525354#Comment_123525354

Where pray tell do you bump into these mildly ambitious 20 somethings that drive for days on end? Seems a strange rationale to base a decision of what transmission to do your test on.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123525518#Comment_123525518

EVs are considered automatic because they don't have gears.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123525526#Comment_123525526

They do have gears, but not in the conventional way. Usually a reduction gearbox.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123525460#Comment_123525460

Its just statistically true that its easier to pass the test the younger you are, and a manual license allow you to drive more vehicles than an auto license. So it makes practical sense to do the manual test and do it as young as possible. Then its in the bag, even if you don't drive for years later.

If someone decides its not for them they can do what they like. No ones forced into it. Everyone's situation is different.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123524647#Comment_123524647

My daughter done hers in an automatic before COVID, never been an issue, hasn't affected insurance. She can drive manual but never felt the need and wanted to drive in her own car on the day. Passed without issue.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123525595#Comment_123525595

If your kid told you they weren't interested in getting a manual license, would you force them to do it anyway?