Irish pubs closing Down

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123517484#Comment_123517484

Wetherspoons are perfectly capable of offering spirits and mixer deals here.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520057#Comment_123520057

Lots.

Heineken Ireland and Diageo Ireland have the draught market sewn up between them here and charge accordingly.

They always increase prices in lockstep, too.

This is why we heard about Wetherspoons threatening to drop all Heineken products in Ireland and the UK unless Heineken Ireland stopped ripping them off here - it worked.

And why the Aviva Stadium went to the UK to source Dublin-brewed kegs of Guinness more cheaply.

The two of them also get up to some very odd practices indeed to keep out non-duopoly competing taps.

Irish craft breweries who have higher production costs and less economy of scale are able to supply their kegs to pubs more cheaply than the big two. How can that be?

fonecrusher1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520042#Comment_123520042

No actually maybe the publicans should direct their anger at the breweries then. Since its forcing them to increase prices and thus people are staying away and pubs are closing down.

People will just vote with their feet and their wallets.

You can complain about the breweries all you want, punters don't care. Its the pub their handing the money over to. The onus is on the pub to push back on the breweries if its pushing them to the brink.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520507#Comment_123520507

I agree but there is no United front so some publicans make a stand they are worried next door won't and your average Irish customer will follow the pub that keeps the Diagio and Heineken products.

fonecrusher1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520540#Comment_123520540

Honestly I disagree. As someone who regularly observes how much of a rip off certain pubs are I would most certainly go into the pub where they're actually making a stand and having to drop the big sellers from Diagio and try out some less well known stuff or local brewery stuff which may be a bit cheaper and might offer some sort of value.

I'd choose them any day and get my respect for sure.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520566#Comment_123520566

Unfortunately though, you're not a representation of the mass market.

Many people I know won't go to certain pubs because they do not have certain drinks on tap, eg "What pub doesn't serve Guinness? A sh*ite one, we're not going there."

fonecrusher1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520588#Comment_123520588

Well maybe its a regional thing but I dont know anyone who thinks like that to be honest. No Guinness? ShIthole. I'm a Guinness drinker, if a pub doesn't have it, its not a deal breaker. Yeah fair enough if you're talking about people who only ever drink Guinness religiously yeah thats not the type to try something different. They'll only go the the usual spot.

However people vote with their wallets and I think the younger generation are willing to try new beers / stouts coming on to the market. I think if a pub can offer better value with local brewery beers then they will get the punters imo.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520566#Comment_123520566

Me too. Again personally I agree.My local is Treaty Brewery and beyond that I drink places that stock wider ranges of beer.

But not everywhere has the luxury of the variety you get in city clientele and even in the city there is only so much of that type of customer to go round.

I know from experience the majority of my own generation won't drink a local beer. Many will loudly and proudly let you know too.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520312#Comment_123520312

Two people telling me I'm wrong without telling me WHY I'm wrong.

How does a brewery price increase of 6c cost the consumer 30c?

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520727#Comment_123520727

The only thing I was discussing with you about was your comment how much can be blamed on the brewerw. I feel that they have to clearly shoulder some of the blame as they're the one's initiating the price increases by raising their prices.

After that there are more parties to blame which I full agree with.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520817#Comment_123520817

Sure, I get that. We can give them 20% of the blame, but who gets the other 80%?

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520826#Comment_123520826

I'd apportion the blame much higher than that. The initial price increase creates a knock on effect as each participant involved from start to finish in the supply chain, including publicans, adds an increase to the product.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520839#Comment_123520839

Yeah, but why?

Why does a haulier add more onto the price? It's the same kegs going to the same location.

Why does a publican add more onto the price? It's the same pint in the same keg using the same tap.

Surely they have a choice to add the extra charges, or am I missing something? It seems opportunistic.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520854#Comment_123520854

The value of the product has increased due to the brewer adding the price on.

Brewer say it's due to increase in costs, haulier company say the same (increase in wages, increases in fuel etc.)

The large breweries, we'll use Diage for this are making obcene profits, last year according to their own annual report they made just over 6billion in profit, up from 5.5billion last year.

https://www.diageo.com/en/investors/results-reports-and-events/annual-report-2024

Do you really think they're the one's who need to add the 6c on a pint as opposed to a local publican?

bucketybuck

Lads absolutely are dodging the question here.

Why does a 6c rise in brewery prices mean a 30c rise in pub prices?

The only thing that changed was the brewery price, so why didn't the pub price only go up 6c in line with it?

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520889#Comment_123520889

I am not dodging the question, the value of the product was increased by the brewery, this creates a knock on effect throughout the supply chain, it's basic operational economics.

It's the same with majority of products. Eg, cost of coffee beans increase by 6c a bag do you think the bag on the shelf in a supermarket only raises by 6c?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520908#Comment_123520908

Just let these lads have their rant about publicans. It's been going on since the dawn of pubs and I had years hearing it from lads as they handed over their money over to the tills of the publicans they hate. There is no reasoning with it.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520908#Comment_123520908

It would if the supermarket believed customers won't pay more than an extra 6c. Pubs just assume that they can raise there prices more than there suppliers as they are use to getting away with it. Now that they cant get away with it they want to whinge and moan about it.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520947#Comment_123520947

I defended pubs in this thread and hadn't said anything about publicans, but I can tell when a poster is dodging a pertinent question. You haven't even tried to explain it, likely because you can't.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123521165#Comment_123521165

That article quotes someone who says that the increase will lead to 30c on the pint. 30c is not the reality in my experience. That sounds very much like some mouthy publican playing the poor mouth or trying to scaremonger (or rip people off which I'm sure does happen)

Any experience I had of setting the prices the cost increase would be adjusted in the same formula the old price was and would go up accordingly.

So the hypothetical example mentioned in the article has never happened in my experience so I can't answer the hypothetical question.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123521214#Comment_123521214

What's the formula?

If your price per pint increases by 7.5c (including VAT) is that all you'd increase by?

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123521165#Comment_123521165

I’ll make it perfectly clear, I’m not a publican, never have been and never would be.

I love a good pub but as my previous posts have shown I can’t justify the price of going to then regularly anymore.

I do have an economics degree and it’s very basic economics that when the cost price goes up of any product then there’s a knock on to the supply chain which increases the final price of the product to a greater extent than the initial increase at cost level.

Should it go up by 5 times the amount of the initial increase, very unlikely, however, I don’t know the extent that each area of the supply chain are increasing the prices. But to think that the brewer increases the price by 6c a pint and the pub raises it by exactly 6c isn’t logical or realistic unless they take a financial hit.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123520889#Comment_123520889

There was a (recently banned) poster who worked in the food biz, who maintained that when a major ingredient goes up by x% you need to increase your selling price by a similar % (NB.. not the amount the ingredient goes up) in order to maintain the gross profit margin.

I don't know if that's a justification or not.

But we're almost - or maybe are - at the point where it'd be cheaper for a publican to buy Heineken or Guinnness in the off trade, empty them into a keg, gas it up and sell it on draught (I might actually do the sums on this 😉 )

Anyone who's looked at the cost of getting a keg in for a party (which one would think would be cheaper) soon realises it's not a bargain at all, even ignoring the cost of hiring a gas setup etc. The beer being sold into the draught trade is dearer than the same beer being sold into off-licences and supermarkets, even though it's cheaper to put beer into kegs rather than lots of small bottles or cans.

This is because they dominate the "on-trade" draught beer market, but are facing a quite competitive off-trade market in supermarkets and offies.

In other words, pub drinkers are being ripped off.

breezy1985

I was actually totally wrong to say the publican was spoofing about 6% leading to a 30c rise. It would lead to almost that amount. Been a few years since I priced anything so am quite surprised.

https://www.crowncellarswines.co.uk/helping-your-business/gross-profit-calculator/

Potential-Monke

Was briefly at my nieces 21st last night. A pub in the middle of the country, near a small village. A single shot of something, think it was a B52, was €10. For 1. Not a double shot, a single shot. This is why pubs are closing. That's daylight robbery. The nephew is a hefty lad, can throw back pints and didn't think he'd have enough in €90...

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123522247#Comment_123522247

Not hard to see why many are looking at off licence prices v pub prices now more than ever... Nothing to do with comparing business models.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123522263#Comment_123522263

The business models aren't the same, but for a person looking to have a few drinks with friends, then they're both options.

You could have friends around, buy a few drinks for yourself and a few communal drinks, do a dinner or finger food and snacks. Everyone brings a few drinks and you're on for a good night. So much cheaper than a night in the pub, even for the host.

Different to a night in the pub, but similar social evening.