Irish pubs closing Down

HazeDoll

We've often heard the argument that the death of the local pub means that many an auld fella has no way to socialise, as if there's no such thing as cafes. I would suggest that if he's incapable of socialising without a pint in his hand he's an alcoholic and the pub was facilitating his drinking problem. It provided a veneer of normality and respectability to a disordered behaviour. At least if he's drinking alone in his own kitchen I won't meet him meandering all over the road after closing time.

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506201#Comment_123506201

they didn’t socialise anyway let’s be fair. How many times have you walked into a pub to older men at the bar just nursing pints. They aren’t socialising.

Pubs have been granted a nostalgic lens. They’re regarded as socially active places many will miss- the fact is they’re dreary dumps for the most part.

BP_RS3813

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506201#Comment_123506201

Exactly, older people have a serious issue with life surrounding the local parish, GAA club and pub. Nowadays things are a lot better - there could be 4 or 5 different sports clubs, a few different cafes, a gym or two.

Its an issue we have in Ireland where social fun activities are traditionally associated with drink. You can have fun without it and if you can't then your an alcoholic.

breezy1985

Maybe it's different out the country but in the cities any pub I see actually putting in a bit of effort is doing a great trade.

I find these articles usually driven by "I've been in the trade 40 years" risk averse hardcore Vintners men. Anything they do try is usually half hearted or done with scorn.

HazeDoll

Raichu and BP, you're both absolutely right. Pub owners will have to diversify, the days of pints selling themselves are over.

I still have one or two friends who have to punctuate every event with a session. Climbed Carrauntoohil? Booze! Long weekend? Booze! Won/lost a sportsball competition? Booze! Built a garden shed? Booze!

These people increasingly gravitate to each other for reassurance that they're the normal ones and the rest of us are dry shytes. Their numbers are dwindling every year as somebody takes up running or has kids or just decides they don't want to suffer hangovers any more. In the end there'll be one mad yoke who gets hammered at every wedding and funeral and is carefully avoided.

BP_RS3813

Its the one industry that we all know will die eventually - no matter the tempory life supports the government gives (reduced VAT, MUP) etc but still gets government support. Its nuts. Imagine any other industry was dying and not viable - people would say let it go but for the pubs its different?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506268#Comment_123506268

Yep. Pubs in Dublin are still packed and the numbers are actually increasing, once you account for hotel bars etc.

Rural pubs will continue to decline because their populations are declining.

One thing that would help pubs/cafes survive is to deregulate the licenses.

Make it cheaper for places to open social and community spaces and sell alcohol. That way, we would start to see more small start up businesses open selling craft beers/bottle beers etc.

These small start up places can't afford to pay 60k to buy a license from some rural pub thats been closed for a decade and is hanging on only to sell its license up to Dublin or Cork.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506201#Comment_123506201

You have a very jaundiced view of pubs but you are entitled to same . Anyone describing having a few pints as some sort of disordered behaviour and promoting drinking at home as somehow a better option for society than going out has a coloured perspective .
Where are the cafes in rural areas ?
Even in urban areas they close at 6pm

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506350#Comment_123506350

A few pints the odd time is fine, obviously. Being unable to socialise without alcoholic lubrication is a problem. Just because it's a very widespread problem and one that was promoted as part of a vibrant 'culture' doesn't mean it's not a problem.

There are cafes everywhere. In small towns they close in the evenings because there's very little demand for them. Why is there not more demand? Because so many people rely on booze to be able to function in social situations.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506378#Comment_123506378

Nobody is talking about not being able to socialise without alcohol. I am referring to people who drink a few pints one or two nights a week . There was no widespread problem with most of these drinkers in any shape or form. Society was never going to collapse because of their disordered behaviour. ( your words )
The reality of cafes is that rural people who work on farms, on construction sites, or in factories for the working week do not want to drink coffee to escape the grind .

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506467#Comment_123506467

Outside the cities the pubs need the regulars to drink much more that a pint (or even three or four pints) one or two nights a week. Bear in mind that a pint has between 2 and 3 units of alcohol. For men seventeen units per week is the maximum if you don't want to damage your health. Three pints twice a week can bring you up to or over that limit, into problem territory. Lots of regular drinkers think that three pints twice a week barely counts as drinking at all.

The pubs need the problematic drinkers. The unproblematic drinkers don't need the pubs.

I absolutely understand that plenty of people want to think that the way they drink is normal and harmless. I just think it's a pity they can't manage without it.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123505426#Comment_123505426

Depends on what you see as the benefits of pubs.

I think pubs are a social and community place. People milling about, chatting, keeping the community in touch with each other and so on.

If you see them as gastro pubs or a type of boozy resturant where you get a dining experience, then I don't think there's any real benefit to them. They're just another type of resturant where people mostly sit in their space and that's it. They're grand and have economic benefit as s budiness, but no real loss to the community if they fold.

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506553#Comment_123506553

but this again is some idolised idea of pubs. the majority just are not the community hubs people claim they are and frankly they shouldn’t be.

If your community can’t connect and engage without drinking pints there’s something wrong with the community.

BP_RS3813

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506553#Comment_123506553

"I think pubs are a social and community place. People milling about, chatting, keeping the community in touch with each other and so on."

You can do all those things a) outside the pub and b) without alcohol

I'm doing a 11-12 mile run tomorrow morning with some friends - will be chatting along the entire way. That 80 minutes or so will be plenty of time to have a chat and catch up about everything.

My run club is my social/community place - havn't drank in months and can't remember the last time I actually drank in a pub (have had food obviously but no drink). I am what drinkers would consider a 'dry boring shyte' so am typically the designated driver.

enricoh

Went for a few pints last night, pub was hopping with soccer final on and lads playing music in the beer garden.

There's a lot of people nowadays live their social lives online, I daresay these people would be better off going for a few pints n meet real people in life.

Most of the under 40s I see have the air pods in in the gym n would barely communicate to anyone there

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506592#Comment_123506592

people have 2000 friends on Facebook or TikTok but don’t leave their bedroom and don’t have 2 proper friends to talk to if something is wrong

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506560#Comment_123506560

But this is the unsophisticated way these things tend to be discussed. It's not either/or, all or nothing. There are lots of places people can socialise and mill about. I personally have no use for cafes. I go to them 10 times a year for a take away coffee and leave. I also don't know how people make friends at the gym but I take their word for it that they do.

But I have made friends through going to see sport matches of different kinds, sports clubs, pubs, work etc. Just because I don't use a venue doesn't mean I'd be happy to see them disappear.

ThThe village I cone from has one pub and it's as I described. People mill about and chat (not all the time, of course. Most of the time its quiet). It's one of the things that ties the community together. And community is important to me.

Ozmodya

I'm not sure it "seems like the Irish pub scene will soon be over".

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506574#Comment_123506574

Of course you can do those things without a pub or alcohol. The question isn't about how you, personally socialise. It's about the bunch of ways communities socialise.

Maybe you think we have too much community and can afford to cut off some of those ways people do it. But I think community is important- even the methods of socialising that I don't personally use.

I've no use for running clubs but I hope you have a good time.

BP_RS3813

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506727#Comment_123506727

Cheers, my point was that the pub was traditionally the social spot and now that has changed. Pubs are economically unfeasible (for the most part heading into the future) and supporting them just so a few aul ones can meet up once a week is not the right thing to do.

DarkJager21

Not a shred of sympathy for them, these are the same **** that lobbied to get MUP introduced so nobody could ever enjoy a drink at home again without getting fleeced. Then get proceed to make the price of a pint extortionate and pull a Pikachu face when trade is suddenly down.

Sink or swim you pricks, you wanted this so deal with it.

BP_RS3813

To elaborate on

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506793#Comment_123506793

For years now, pubs havn't been getting new customers for a multitude of reasons - mainly the following: young people socialising in different ways (festivals, run clubs, gyms etc), and the drinks they do drink are mainly mixers eg vodka and coke etc.

At same time, due to rising costs they had to increase the price of drink which made drinking the cheaper supermarket stuff more appealing.

Realising these things and not being able to do much about the first, they joined hands with AAI to increase the supermarket stuff to just below pub prices (Via MUP also not realising that AAI want no drinking whatsoever) in the hope that john and mary will come back to the pub to drink.

What they didn't bank on was that john and mary would simply cut back on drink rather then go to the pub, thereby reducing current customers by a significant amount.

This created an issue where by john and mary might miss the pub and be sad its closing down, young 22 year old bob in his run club never gave a shyte about the pub to begin with and doesn't care.

This is all much much worse for rural pubs where population is an issue. Dublin ones can get by just by its sheer population but thats not sustainable long term as culture continues to shift.

Liscensing changes is not a fix neither is continuing to prop up a mostly unviable industry outside of dublin, just because they are community hubs which I don't believe exist anymore.

The local parish, GAA club and pub being the local centre of the community is not the case anymore.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506812#Comment_123506812

I don't drink a lot, maybe 3/4 pints on a night out with friends. I'm reluctant to even do that now with the prices, 6 euro for a pint of lager. It's not worth it and I don't like the feeling of being ripped off. They can keep it. I meet my friends now for a coffee during the day as we're all retired and sometimes we meet in each others homes for a few Peronis and a game of cards. Better fun anyway.

briany

Ronan Kelly, who did radio documentaries on RTE for a long time and has his own YT channel, stumbled upon a great thing in Longford one time - another old Irish tradition, the rambling house.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jDYQEnFqLI

If public houses in rural Ireland are expensive to run, maybe this type of thing could see a resurgence. They don't run afoul of the law in the way a shebeen might because they're not run for profit and no drink is sold. People bring drink along and have it there, or leave it behind the bar for others or chip in for a keg.

Everlong1

Does this mean the end of the compulsory staged farce whereby every visiting American president has to be sheperded into a carefully chosen pub somewhere for the obligatory "holding a pint of Guinness" photo op?

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123505356#Comment_123505356

The Boards wokerati brigade must be all away for the weekend - no one's condemned you as WACIST !!!! yet?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506793#Comment_123506793

The amount of pubs is unsustainable.

Pubs are certainly sustainable and people are doing well from them despite the doom mongering about "kids these days"

thereiver

The article says pub hold quiz nights and other events to attract gen z. I think gen z is simply more health conscious they watch Netflix. Play videogames. previous generations went to the pub every night now people go to the gym or just visit a friend.

whisky_galore

The sheer numbers of pubs in small towns was nuts, my local small town had something like a dozen pubs at one time, now there's just four which is more than enough even with the increase in population. Most of the week these are either closed or dead.

People simply aren't going straight after work for pints, that day is gone.

Hotblack Desiato

Two obvious complete bullshít points in the article:

It says that the "holy hour" was on Sundays to stop the workforce drinking?!?! Few people work on a Sunday. The "holy hour" was only in Dublin and Cork and was on weekday afternoons. There was a separate restriction that in most towns pubs couldn't open on a Sunday until mass was over. Both stupid restrictions long long gone.

Then the one that "everywhere that sold alcohol had to serve food". FFS, does she not remember the odd phrase "wet pub" from only four years ago? A pub that serves drink, no food. The (deeply stupid) law used to be that nightclubs and late bars had to serve food. Again, long gone

RTE should really do a little bit of fact checking on these "opinion" pieces. They try to get out of it by saying that the views are those of the author and not RTE, blah blah, but they don't tell us who the author is or where she works or what exactly qualifies her to have an opinion on this topic that is supposed to be worth hearing.

Then there's the publicans whinging as usual, a choice contribution:

"Inflation, the Living Wage, VAT, excise tax, water costs… It’s tax on tax on tax. The thing is that the government continues to make these decisions that affect publicans around the country, without consulting publicans.

Since when should publicans dictate government policy?

Inflation - it's not as if the government just decides "let's have some inflation, lads". Pubs putting prices up contributes to inflation…

Living wage - we're a high-wage economy with a high cost of living. If you don't want to pay your employees properly, you're just a scumbag.

VAT - you don't pay this, your customers do.

Excise - ditto.

Water - businesses pay for water same as they pay for every other service they use. Would he expect to get electricity for free - no - so why water?