Gerry Adams Wins Defamation Case

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123505510#Comment_123505510

Familiarise yourself with Force Research Unit. They are a cross between Army intelligence officers and Special Forces Operators with political agendas. They had all they players and moved them around the board. There is a deep held belief in west Belfast that Although Donaldson was an FRU asset he was not the highest ranking one. There were a few more higher than him. These lads in the FRU trained terrorists on both sides in bomb making an insurgency. See the type silly games that Capt Bob Niaric was playing? Those sort of games.

I dont remember the exact details about Donaldson but there was something along the lines that Ian Paisley was coming into government as the first minister and would have to be "Officially" told about Donaldson. Donaldson knew the game was up and some old comrades chased him down to a holiday home a few months later and he was terminated with malice. He obviously had shopped a lot of old friends. That tied up a lot of loose ends. Hence we no longer see Gerry on the Falls road.

The second betrayal was the Peace Process ended the arm struggle without a 32 county sovereign state with a socialist government. When a conflict ends and peace is declared, most people are relieved and wish to return to their civilian lives. However there will always be a few that will never acknowledge the war is over and vow to continue on. They wish to continue on the conflict for personal vendettas, group ideology or business interests. These people are usually dealt with by their own side in the shadows. I can neither account for Republican dissidents but British security services decided to have a counter terrorism conference in Scotland. (Please press your buzzer when alarm bells start to go off). So They load them all up into two Chinooks helicopter (transport slow moving) and on the return journey there was engine failure and everyone was lost over the Mull of Kintyre. Inspector John Phoenix was among the lost. Billy Wright was a fast climbing guy a bit older than myself and is supposed to have carried out a few vicious attacks. He said NO Peace Process No Surrender. He was a guy trained by MI5 and if you saw him in your area, trouble soon followed. He was arrested and was let into a yard unsupervised where a three INLA guys killed him I believe. There was only one person in Northern Ireland that could have approved that.

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506211#Comment_123506211

Ohhh that is a nice crisp shirt and suit. Pity about the tie. Is it St. Johns Ambulance uniform?

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123505539#Comment_123505539

Yeah and it is a very lucrative trade. Dont forget those valuable connections they made with those lovely FARC boys scouts in Colombia. We never did get to hear how they had perfectly forged Irish passports. The peace process also opened up the lisences to wash illegal washed diesel (That is a bit of an oxymoron). Then there is the dirty tire trade. Counterfeit Vodka. Shure what shenanigans dont they have going on up there.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506236#Comment_123506236

That is the one where Gerry joked that he looked like Frank Spencer.

gormdubhgorm

Interesting hearing the NUJ secretary response on the trial, seemed very worried about how Journalists proceed re anything Gerry Adams after this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd0l3lzpkk8o.amp

And also praised the journalism on the BBC spotlight programme. Notably citing how Spotlight did a programme on the “Gibraltar 3” that Maggie Tatcher tried to ban from airing.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506561#Comment_123506561

The NUJ are clutching at straws, the Gibraltar 3 were shot dead in 1988… I doubt anyone currently involved was around back then and they seem to want carte blanche to defame folk without consequences

batistuta9

if the real ira claimed responsibility why are they airing that Adams/pira sanctioned it?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506617#Comment_123506617

That was not what was implied, it was the implication that investigative journalism will now be extremely hamstrung by any further investigations re NI paramilitaries, republicanism, Gerry Adams given his new found “standing and reputation”.

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123505029#Comment_123505029

Same could be said about de Valera and others of his era who used the ballot paper to waft away the smell of gunpowder😉

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506693#Comment_123506693

Good point completely reinvented himself as a Statesman. When you think of what Dev’s reputation was at one point, versus how he ended up it was some achievement.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506654#Comment_123506654

Not sure I understand what was implied then. The jury decided the BBC defamed Adams, do the NUJ accept that judgement? The Gibraltar 3 were shot dead in 1988, are the NUJ impying that all subsequent Spotlight programmes must be above board and could not possibly defame anyone?

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506163#Comment_123506163

Many students of history have been for decades in ''awe'' of PH Pearse and his comrades for taking on the might of the british empire back in 1916 and paying the ultimate price - The seed they planted eventually produced a bountiful harvest that gave us south of the border our freedom. Unfortunately our country was divided/partitioned and an apartheid state was created in the North with Catholics denied basic civil and human rights creating a powder keg that eventually exploded in the late 1960's - Again some brave ordinary men and women took on the might of the british (the empire being long gone!) and many paid the ultimate price, but sowed a seed that blossomed into what is now known as The Good Friday Agreement - those who were once the downtrodden minority without rights, are now in power in Stormont.

Sadly some bad actors try to rewrite history but the truth will always win out.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506752#Comment_123506752

The point is it makes journalist investigative work or historical reference re Adams and NI much more difficult. Prior to this Adams case, it could have been argued that Adams did not have a good reputation. Therefore had no reputation or standing to be defamed.
But now apparently Adams does have a certain reputation and standing so can be defamed. Even though the level of award indicates it is middle of the road.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506789#Comment_123506789

Level of award is irrelevant

Investigative work can be done without defaming people. Most people would not consider taking the chance Adams took therefore most people would not take defamation against the BBC (or other organisations). The BBC can use free money (from their point of view) to go to court, most people cannot.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506983#Comment_123506983

The level of award is extremely relevant the judge even directed the jury on the amount of award which should be commensurate to how defamed or otherwise Adams was. To say otherwise misunderstands the point of a defamation case and how awards are decided.

Also you don’t seem to realise prior to this case on the face of it Adams did not have a reputation to defame. Re provos NI troubles etc. I am not sure you are grasping that point. That is why it is such a big win for Adams.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507031#Comment_123507031

Do you think the BBC defamed Adams?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507129#Comment_123507129

Yes and no. Only if it was decided he had a reputation to defame. If that was decided,
Personally I would put more weight on Gerry Adams early years.

Instead of his reputation in more recent years. For the simple reason the there were more shady Adams years, then the self styled peacemaker years.

If it was me on the jury I would have encouraged my fellow jurors to give Adams the most derisory award possible. Given that the judge said rate Adams reputation 2016 when the allegations were made.

I would then make the award derisory as it would be how I rate his reputation 2016 as a “right thinking member of society” which is the phrase used in tort law, as the standard to decide defamation.

A Dub in Glasgo

Yes and no.

Fence

The jury decided there was no fence to sit on

The actual award to Adams pales in total significance to the legal fees the UK taxpayer has to pay for the BBC folly

batman75

The BBC programme falsely accused Gerry of sanctioning the murder of Denis Donaldson. You would think that any programme released by the BBC would first have to be cleared with their legal people. Despite winning this case Gerry's credibility with the Irish public will always be open to question due to his refusal to admit being in the IRA. That being said he is entitled to deny unless somebody has irrefutable evidence to counter his denial.

I have always wondered was he involved in the disappearance and murder of Jean McConville? He has always denied having been so but then he has denied being in the IRA and nobody believes that to be a credible line for him to hold.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507178#Comment_123507178

It is not sitting on the fence at all if the judge did NOT direct hypothetical me as a juror to focus on 2016 only. I would have said Adams was definitely not defamed.As looking at his whole life I wouldn’t give him a hope.

However, given the fact it was focused on 2016 only. I would say yes he was defamed. However, I would still view Adams reputation as low. But not as poor as when taken in its whole context of his life.

The legal fees have nothing to do with the main facts at issue. Namely had Gerry Adams a reputation to defame?. And how much is that reputation worth?

The award of damages basically indicates the value the persons reputation, and the level of damage to it.

The legal fees are not any indication of reputation for the plaintiff etc.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507219#Comment_123507219

I doubt the BBC ever thought Adams would challenge the statement re Donaldson. The BBC argued they had multiple sources but couldn’t name them. Sources have to be protected etc.

batman75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123505510#Comment_123505510

The whole point of IRA/SF was to end British Government involvement in the running of the six counties and for Ireland to be one country with 32 counties. The peace process was predicated on NI remaining in the UK until a majority in the 6 counties voted otherwise. SF also agreed to power sharing in a part of the UK. It was a complete abandoning of SF/IRA core objective.

It was the election of Bobby Sands as an MP that allowed the penny to drop within an organisation that sought to achieve it's aims through purely military means. SF realised that it could endeavour to achieve it's aims through a mixture of bombs and the ballot box. Eventually the armed struggle was stood down, thankfully. I think ultimately SF did the right thing as the British government was never going to be militarily removed from the 6 counties and the IRA as plucky as they were, were never going to defeat them. It didn't help that one of the highest members of the IRA was on the British payroll up until at least 1990.

batman75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507257#Comment_123507257

Give what happened to Donaldson it's understandable that they wouldn't name them. It makes Stakeknife's dying naturally two years ago all the more extraordinary. What's bizarre in Donaldson's case is the interview he gave to journalist shortly before he died basically all but disclosing his whereabouts. I understood he had assurances from SF that his life was not in danger. So either those assurances were lies or another group killed him. We'll probably never know.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507220#Comment_123507220

The legal fees have nothing to do with the main facts at issue

Tell that to the taxpayers in the UK

khamilton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507031#Comment_123507031

You're stating an unfalsifiable - that prior to this case Adams could not be defamed as he did not have a positive reputation. You've presented no evidence of this, and indeed, seem to be ignoring the BBCs own case (that it was an allegation and not a statement, and that separately, they had enough evidence that either way it was not defamation).

The fact that Gerry Adams is accepted as being a nastier/shadier character in the past (even by Adams given he hasn't launched defamation proceedings about allegations and/or statements relating to his earlier life) doesn't mean his current reputation or standing can't be defamed. That's ludicrous, as you're essentially arguing that the Tort of defamation can never apply to someone who conducted behaviour in the past that injured their past reputation.

SnazzyPig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123506211#Comment_123506211

The camera never lies -

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123507309#Comment_123507309

It is not relevant to this case though. On the barstool level maybe.

But the whole point of Adams bringing the case was -

1. To prove he had a reputation to defame
2. That his reputation was defamed
3. On a personal and political level to put “monners” / manners on BBC

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123508280#Comment_123508280

That is why the judge directed the jury to look only at his reputation in 2016. Which was fortuitous for Adams as his reputation was mud for most of his life. Prior to his evangelical u-turn.

It occurred to me that among Republicans he would have been viewed as a hero if the allegation that he was involved in the Donaldson murder was true. A poster on the first page mentioned a tear will not be shed for the “tout” Donaldson or something to that effect.

Let’s be honest the Republicans Gerry operated with during his lifetime are not like normal “right thinking members” of society. They have and in most cases, and still do have a different moral compass to the greater Irish society on this island.

walshb

Fair play to Adams. As he said, he put manners on the British Broadcasting Corporation

oceanman

Senator Michael McDowell is seemingly not to happy with the outcome, and anything that gets him pi**ed off is fine by me 😁