Irish Language Exemption and Class Attendance

the O Reilly connection

Hi

I was wondering if you think it's appropriate for students who take Irish language exemptions to attend the same class as the students who are taking it?

I had this problem when I was back in school with two people from outside the country. They took an Irish language exemption and then they sat in on the higher level class and did their homework while everyone else was learning.

I thought it was distracting having two people just sitting there practically ignoring what we were doing. I complained about it but nothing was done. Then they thought I was having a go at their nationality.

I thought if they were going to sit in on a class it should at least be a lower level class or foundation not the higher level class.

What do you think?

Raichų

Non native English speakers were given ESL classes (English as a second language) in lieu of Irish. When I was in school that was mainly Latvian, Lithuanian & polish students.

Those of us who are Irish born and native English speakers (so me) were resigned to just sit in the room and don’t make noise basically. It was a disgraceful use of 40 minutes when I could’ve been taking part in a different subject or class- basically use my time there productively.

the_amazing_raisin

In my school there was usually a study room with one of the free teachers supervising. Kids who weren't doing Irish went there and could study or do homework or draw rude pictures in their textbooks

It was probably a better deal overall but it required a teacher who had a free class to supervise so wasn't always available

Some schools might not have had the same level of resources and it isn't like the school could just chuck the kids into a field to run free

As for making a complaint, I don't think that's appropriate. I'm sure if those students had a choice they'd prefer a study room. Okay realistically they'd probably prefer to not be in school but you get the idea

I can't see how having someone studying in your vicinity is going to cause a problem with grades assuming they're keeping quiet. I imagine the stress of the exams probably made it seem worse at the time

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123471862#Comment_123471862

yeah I was thinking it’s a bit weird to accuse them of being a distraction if they didn’t do anything 😂

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123471876#Comment_123471876

Maybe the OP is a telepath and needs everyone in the room to be focused on the same tasks otherwise they can't concentrate 🤔

If the lads were acting the bollocks then fair enough to complain

the O Reilly connection

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123471754#Comment_123471754

I can understand English being a barrier for non-native English speakers. But the people I am referring to were English and Scottish. It wasn't like English was a problem for them. I think it was the fact that Irish was inconvenient for them.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123471919#Comment_123471919

If I kept seeing 2 imaginary people that the rest of the class couldn't see it would distract me too.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123471929#Comment_123471929

Especially since the imaginary people were probably naked and quite good looking and probably in the middle of doing something that was definitely against the school code of conduct

We are talking about a teenagers imagination after all 😂

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123471925#Comment_123471925

I am sure their English was fine, however if they joined Irish education following being initially taught in England/Scotland then it would put them at quite a disadvantage to take up Irish for the state exams in fairness.

Like even joining midway through primary school would be unfair to make them study Irish. They’ve missed years of it up to now. However to my knowledge kids who are in school since early enough age are taught Irish. You don’t get an exemption just because you hold a foreign citizenship.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123471925#Comment_123471925

It appears you are somewhat put out by others having an exemption. Many Irish students also have exemptions from Irish. Someone's nationality doesn't matter.

I can't understand how they were any type of distraction by sitting there and doing schoolwork!

the O Reilly connection

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123472114#Comment_123472114

Maybe you've misread the post or perhaps you have mild dyslexia? The thread clearly states that this refers to people taking exemptions and sitting in on classes with people who aren't.

Rubberchikken

I don't see what your issue.is.

If they're sitting there doing their homework while the rest study how that could be.a problem is beyond me.

Maybe as others have said, your issue is with those who can have an exemption. And tbh it's no one's business but theirs.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123475293#Comment_123475293

No, I neither have misread your op, neither do I have any disability.

Many people have an exemption to Irish, foreign people, special needs people, etc. many people take exemptions for many different reasons.

I don't understand why someone doing their own work, could possibly interfere with people that are doing their own work.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058410915/irish-language-exemption-and-class-attendance

There was only 12 in my year that did honours Irish (inc myself) there was 8 students that had an exemption (some Irish, some not) and like in your school they sat in our class doing their own work. Never disrupted us so it made absolutely no difference.

I guarantee you OP that there was more than 2 people in most classes who were sitting there practically ignoring what we were doing so unless you can read minds it would have made 0 difference and you had nothing to complain about.

the O Reilly connection

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123475311#Comment_123475311

I'm not sure what the situation is now, but when I was in school doing the leaving cert meant all your marks were added together to give you an overall point average. Some students had the opportunity to pick up marks in subjects they were good at - Maths, History, Geography, Irish etc.

In my opinion, if someone is taking an exemption from one of those subjects then they shouldn't be sitting in on the class with the people who aren't.

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123478753#Comment_123478753

Okay, but what else should they do?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058410915/irish-language-exemption-and-class-attendance

Trolling and racist nonsense. If you are that easily distracted then you are going to have very serious problems dealing with college and the work place environment.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123478753#Comment_123478753

Why?

the O Reilly connection

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123478796#Comment_123478796

Because it doesn't change the fact that the Irish language is on the school curriculum whether you agree with it or not.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123478847#Comment_123478847

But they had an exemption, lots of students have an exemption. Why does that bother you?

Rubberchikken

I accept its on the curriculum but hardly fair to expect a student, maybe foreign, who transfers from abroad into the senior cycke classes to suddenly start trying to learn a language most other students in their class may have been learning since junior infants

spurious

The school may not have had the staff to dedicate somewhere else to supervise 2 students. Insurance issues may also have been in play.

Believe me there are plenty classes in this country where there are idiots who ARE supposed to be doing a subject but disrupt the classes for others.

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123478847#Comment_123478847

Why are you ignoring the question you are asked, twice actually, by making another point altogether? One which equally makes little sense.

You’re effectively just after someone to validate your complaint to the school and feeling they were a distraction. I would agree with the part of your complaint where you felt the students should not be there practically doing nothing. But not because they would be distracting other students, rather it’s just a waste of their school time.

With all that said people get exempt from the subject for numerous reasons & there should be a better system in place for dealing with students who are exempt. In fairness it isn’t a simple thing to do either- schools can’t just create spare rooms and spare teachers.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123478847#Comment_123478847

Yes it is but there are a lot of steps to get an exemption to it so it's not like people do it on a whim and those exemptions are signed off by the Department of Education who I think know more about the school curriculum than you do. I know of 2 individuals in second level with an Irish exemption (by the way, if you have one in primary school, it doesn't automatically flow to secondary & they have to go through an additional assessment). Their school is able to accommodate them in a study environment with extra resources to help them during Irish lessons but as has been mentioned, not all schools have the size and resources to provide this. So again the question is asked, if 2 people are sitting in the back of a classroom studying quietly & not disrupting the class that is ongoing, what is the issue?

the O Reilly connection

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123486190#Comment_123486190

A student taking an exemption from a language is a reflection of how they feel about the subject. Higher level students are obviously a lot more motivated and demonstrate a lot more enthusiasm for a subject than ordinary level or foundation students. That's definitely the impression I got with these particular students. In a small class of ten people you will definitely notice how a person is shuffling through papers and writing when everyone else is listening - like I did.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487005#Comment_123487005

I don't know how you coped doing actual exams with all those other inconsiderate people ruffling papers and writing when you were trying to write down your answers

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487005#Comment_123487005

How a student feels about Irish is not something the department takes into account when allowing an exemption. The 2 I know of it with it have dyslexia and struggle with languages so they are exempt from Irish through the department & the school has allowed them to not choose another language also. It doesn't mean they don't have respect for it but more that they struggle massively to learn it.

And I think you're doing people who do ordinary level a disservice too. I know quite a few people who had enthusiasm for a subject but just didn't have the knowledge retention in it or similar to do well in it. I myself found science really interesting and was enthusiastic about the experiments. Failed every exam in it except my actual Junior Cert before dropping it.

That sounds like something you need to take up with the school then in terms of providing an appropriate study facility for those classmates. But in reality welcome to life. I work in an open plan office and have to concentrate while other people talk to each other or are on the phone. All of us are doing work, but different work beside each other. Maybe look at this as a lesson in how that will happen in the future.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487005#Comment_123487005

If that's the case then the exempt students should definitely be sitting with the higher level class.

If they were in with the ordinary level class there's more of a chance of them disrupting less motivated students.

Kurooi

You're right in that being distracting and I can't imagine that was useful or too pleasant for the exempted students either.

They would have benefited from other grinds, and if the school can't do that then I'd argue they're leaving cert level - start trusting them a little let them work away at the library. School staff just can't be arsed to put some thought into it though.

gipi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123487130#Comment_123487130

I don't think this is a current issue for the OP, based on some of their other posts, so no need to contact the school.

the O Reilly connection

This issue is a classic example of the tail wagging the dog.