Being forced to a Smart Tariff

Firblog

Hi, I had a smart metre put in a couple of years ago; I switched to Yuno energy last year with no issues, normal 24 hour tariff. Last month I was going to switch to Bord Gáis Energy via bonkers for a better rate, then I got an email next day…

"Thank you for placing your recent energy order through bonkers.ie

Unfortunately, your order has been rejected by your chosen supplier as the tariff you selected is incompatible with your current smart meter configuration. Your meter configuration requires that you sign up for a smart tariff. To make things easier, you can filter your search results using our 'only show' heading on the left-hand panel of our comparison page by choosing 'smart tariffs' only.

We recommend you complete a new energy comparison on our site here the day after your contract expires" etc

I thought that when taking in a smart metre you wouldn't be forced to go onto a 'smart tariff'? Who do I contact to query this?

Cheers.

spaceHopper

I think they update the firmware in the meter so it can only work on a smart plan. Sounds very iffiy to me though. I'd try calling one of the sales lines. My pick would be electric Ireland as they are tied to ESB networks. Be from, they want a sale so stand your ground. If they say the meter won't work, then it must be faulty and have it replaced…..

Rock Steady Edy

You were probably unwittingly moved to from an MCC01 non-smart tariff to an MCC12 Time of Use smart tariff with ESB networks when you signed up to Yuno Energy, and didn't spot this because you remained on a 24 hour plan. You only found out when you tried to move to Bord Gais.

Exactly that happened to me when I signed up to a 24 hour plan with Electric Ireland in Jan 2022, and it only came to light when I tried to move to another 24 (non-smart) plan with Flogas 18 months later. I had to accept a non 24 hour smart tariff with Flogas, which worked out a little more expensive when I crunched the numbers.

I complained to Electric Ireland and asked to be moved back to the MCC01 meter or compensated for my future higher bills and I got nowhere. I then escalated the issue to the CRU, who took 14 months to get to my complaint and eventually ruled in Electric Ireland's favour. (They did award me €40 for the way EI had responded.) I think I had given a pretty good case, but I believe they wanted to avoid setting a precedent of moving customers back to an MCC01 tariff at all costs. At the end of the day though, could it be reasonably be expected that a customer understands the complexities of an MCC01 or MCC12 tariff when all they are trying to do is switch to a more competitive rate? No, I don't think so.

Check your historic bills to see if I'm right about if and when an MCC changeover happened. Try going through the complaints process if you like, but I wouldn't hold out much hope. However, even if you eventually escalate your complaint to the CRU, at least they might start to see a picture that there's a problem if they have several complaints on file.

ted1

and what’s the issue ?

Firblog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123425571#Comment_123425571

I was quite happy on the 24 hour tariff, and don't want to be on a smart one, is that ok?

Escapees

Unfortunately while Yuno probably offered the best savings at the time, part of the contract terms are that you agree to letting a smart meter be installed and activated. This condition is shown by Bonkers when comparing the different plans etc.

sell9999

I had the same experience with Yuno.

Even if not signed up to a smart plan installing the Yuno app with meter reads triggers the meter change.

I installed the Yuno app months after switching to them as it was only way to manually pay a bill.

Only discovered what had happened trying to switch to a new provider non smart plan.

ESB Networks were the only ones who could explain what had happened, Yuno customer service were no help.

There is no going back once the MCC has been changed, even if you weren't aware of it.

Phone ESB Networks if you want to find out if the meter was changed.

WildCardDoW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123425726#Comment_123425726

But the 24 hour tariff was a smart one.

It's Yuno that has left you in this situation, not anyone else.

Doodah7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123425726#Comment_123425726

But you can be on a 24 hour tariff with a smart meter. The tariff remains the same but the meter is different. I can't see what people's phobia is with smart meters…

WildCardDoW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123469996#Comment_123469996

The early smart tariffs scared people off with the peak pricing.

The assumption now is they are offering better ones so we all switch and then they can force us back to non 24hr plans with less than preferred rates - but that doesn't make sense because instead they'd use the stick and increase the 24hr non smart plans IMO.

I will say I do think a lot of providers are masking if a plan is smart or not.

Rock Steady Edy

I imagine that Smart Plans with Peak / Off-peak / Night rates are not intentionally meant to try to be more profitable than 24 hour rates. The problem is they assume 9% used at Peak rates, 55% at off peak and 36% at night rates, which might be a national average.

Over a year we used 16% / 67% / 17%, so much more during the day and much less at night. Hence our bills were more than expected. I'll be going for the best 24 hour rate albeit on our Smart meter in future.

Kaisr Sose

I thought you could have a non-smart plan with Yuno, but it was essential to have a smart meter? Activation was not necessary or expected.

@Firblog what you are saying is they activated the smart meter and did not tell you/get your consent? If so, very underhanded and difficult to see how this tactic/unauthorised act can be binding.

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123471532#Comment_123471532

Their Ts&Cs state you have to agree to them getting 30 minute interval readings from the smart meter. The smart meter has to be activated to achieve this. If you can't provide the 30 minute interval readings then you can not avail of the discounts.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123472192#Comment_123472192

Ok..but I have an unactivated meter (with ESB) but it is still uploading the data without manual read. I never get estimated bills now, whereas before smart meter install, I got min 3 estimated, sometimes 4 (which was a PITA as they were always substantially higher than my historical use for those periods)

Why would Yuno need 30min data if you are on a 24hr tarrif? There is no benefit in 30min data on a 24hr tarriff.

Edit. I can see 30min data on ESB networks account and upload to energy pal. So why can't Yuno access that data without forcing activation of a smart meter for no useful purpose? Not a question to you, just a general one

Aurelian

I believe that's a website glitch with Bord Gais. I had the same thing and just rang them up and switched a few weeks ago.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123425726#Comment_123425726

Yuno only deal with smart meters.

The variable smart tariffs are now way better value - certainly in my opinion with energia.

about 23c 8am - 11pm excl 5-7pm, peak 5-7pm about 25c, then 11pm to 8am its 13c.

We're early risers, so washing machine & dishwasher are on before 7am and finished way before 8. Immersion also on.

We've managed without any difficulty to have 50% of our use in the off peak hours. I'd never go back to a 24 hour rate.

_Kaiser_

This sort of thing is why, despite all the advertising to do otherwise, I haven't changed providers in 9 years. Still with EI on my old "legacy" plan that I pay via level pay as I hate variable DD amounts coming from my account.

Sooner or later they always screw it up (no matter what Irish company it is), and you the customer end up out of pocket while they promise to credit you back in future bills. They never refund (yet have no problem taking the money).

I suspected these "smart tariffs" would just be more expensive when the meter was changed about 3/4 years ago (or whenever it was) and this proved to be correct but stories like this show it to be the scam it is. Get everyone onto them so they can then start extracting even more than they already do in a country with among the highest energy costs in Europe.

No thanks. I WFH several days a week and I don't have a zonal heating system (or even the ability to just heat the water - old boiler, old mechanical timer wheel beside it) and my usage pattern is the same month on month so a "smart" plan wouldn't benefit me at all. Every year I call EI when the level pay resets but they tell me I'm already getting the maximum discounts, so the only benefit would be to them.

guil

Thats all a bit tinfoil hat territory. Out of curiosity, what is your unit rate?

Flinty997

Even wfh most of our usage falls out side of peak. We could certainly shift some of our usage to 11pm-8am. Maybe 20-25%. Once the day rate is similar to the 24hr rate the smart plan is cheaper.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123479848#Comment_123479848

They said they are on standard rate with level pay and no direct debit.No mention of paperless. If it works for the poster, then it's a good solution.

Flinty997

Never liked level pay. They used to do a balancing jump every now and then which defeated the whole purpose of it for me. I know meter reading etc.

guil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123480294#Comment_123480294

Level pay is available with multiple suppliers on a standard 24hr plan

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123481984#Comment_123481984

Poster @_Kaiser_ said who they are with in their post....🙄

guil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123481995#Comment_123481995

I'm well aware of that. Still doesn't hint at what unit rate they are paying. Did you read the bit that says legacy plan? Come to think of it, they never mentioned the standard plan you referred to either

guil

Level pay is usually a set price direct debit too so that's possibly another thing you read that wasn't there

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123482007#Comment_123482007

You are just waffling now. Legacy = pre all the contract stuff. Loads of people are still on this. I read everything that was there. Just do a bit of basic internet searching and you will find everything you need to know about the postes 'unit rate'.

guil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123482174#Comment_123482174

There is no indication whatsoever what unit rate applies. For all you know it could be 40 cents per unit. Legacy just means an older plan no longer offered to new customers

_Kaiser_

Apologies for the confusion. By legacy plan I mean the same one I've been on since I moved in 7.5 years ago for both gas and electricity. Based on the OP, this probably isn't available now if you have a smart meter and are signing up?

Rate works out about 20c with paperless/DD discount but the amount monthly is known and fixed through the year with level pay.

The reason I don't trust companies in this country with variable DD billing is from bitter experience with eir, 3,bord gas and others over the years where they inevitably screwed it up and didn't take it at all, took the wrong amount, or otherwise had me on the phone for hours sorting it out - the end result of which was me being promised that the mistakes would be credited to the account rather than directly refunded.

At least with the level pay setup the amount is fixed and stays the same even though the cold winter/spring months when variable bills can even double. Sure it means you pay more at this point of the year and over the next few months, but it all balances in the end.

guil

The rate will be clearly displayed on your bill. Every year you need to contact them about the level pay because they have to check your usage for the previous year and then work out a cost for that over 12 months.

Some years you will have paid too much or too little for your usage

WildCardDoW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123471532#Comment_123471532

From everything I read Firblog accidentally sign up to a Smart Plan with Yuno. Not sure what consent we are talking about here…

The consent would be in T and Cs and signing up to T and Cs.

It doesn't mean Yuno necessarily tricked them, only that they didn't read fine print.

This is from Yuno's site looking at one of the available T and C documents. It is also quite quick to read and find.

Smart Meter

2.5 The Variable Discount Plan Tariff is dependent on us obtaining your half hourly metering data from ESBN, accordingly if you wish to sign up to the Variable Discount Plan Tariff you must have a smart Meter installed or consent to its installation when requested to do so by ESBN. Due to applicable industry rules for smart metering once you move to a Variable Discount Plan Tariff, it is not possible to revert back to a non-smart Tariff.

2.6 If you refuse to allow ESBN to install a smart Meter at your Premises or if you no longer wish to provide ESBN or us with your half hourly smart metering data you will become ineligible to avail of the Variable Discount Plan Tariff. We reserve the right to move you to a different Tariff or terminate the Contract. If you move to another Tariff we may request a deposit from you.

2.7 If the signal from your smart Meter is not sufficient to support the transfer of half-hourly data to us via ESBN, we will contact you to discuss other suitable Tariffs.

2.8 Consumption insights in your App will only be available 30 days after the installation of a smart Meter.

The issue comes from people assuming 24hr plans are inherently non smart without doing further checks, myself included.

On @_Kaiser_'s theory:

I suspected these "smart tariffs" would just be more expensive when the meter was changed about 3/4 years ago (or whenever it was) and this proved to be correct but stories like this show it to be the scam it is. Get everyone onto them so they can then start extracting even more than they already do in a country with among the highest energy costs in Europe.

It would be a lot easier to charge non smart more as well, they'd even get this at night time rather than the peak rate - not sure why you would think anything special will happen regards to Smart Meters with regards to this?

I personally can't track what else you are going on about re: Legacy plans. But I seriously doubt that EI (or others) have left a large batch of customers on a 20c per unit plan for electricity or that they are locked into having to offer these rates. Unless that's pre tax or some averaged rate in a dual fuel or something else.

EI (as just one example) still offer 24hr non smart meter plans that you can sign up to with a smart meter installed as long as you haven't previously activated your smart meter as well as Equaliser / Level Pay (which is why I am confused by any "legacy" terminology).

KildareP

Smart meters were a swizz a few years ago when nobody offered a 24-hour flat rate plan on them, and the time of use tarriffs were more expensive than corresponding day/night plans were, which also weren't available on smart meters.

Basically, smart plans were the most expensive of all options available and once you went onto a smart plan there was no way back.

That's all pretty much gone now and you can get legacy-like tarriffs on smart meter configurations and the gap between day/night and smart tarriffs is also gone.

From last looking at all the major providers, smart and non-smart 24-hour tariffs were identical and smart time of use and day/night were similar (smart time of use actually had a lower standing charge than day/night for many).

The confusion arises in that you have to know what you have - if you try and sign up to a non-smart plan but have an activated smart meter, the switch is rejected. Yet, you'll get the exact same tarriff and rates if you put the switch through by signing up to a smart plan.