Big fat new cells from China - who wants them too?

unkel

I've provisionally sold my entire current battery setup (Tesla Model S pack from 2015, 80kWh in total), but it won't be collected for another few months, so I am on the lookout for new cells. Came across these huge new 560-628Ah LiFePO4 cells

Here is a pic of one beside a "conventional" EVE type cell of about half that capacity:

Looks like you can order them from some AliExpress sellers, not cheap at about €200 each incl. VAT and shipping. I have also contacted some sellers on AliBaba and from feedback, I'm getting the impression they are not yet being mass produced

I've started this thread to discuss these new cells in general, and in particular to share availability and pricing on them

soram

I just googled them……

soram

I'll join you in an order for that price tomorrow!

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123378015#Comment_123378015

Yeah those prices don't exist. AliBaba has always been a mess. Those prices on their front pages / links are always a fantasy. You will need to RFQ / go on chat. Which is what I have done with about 7-8 of the suppliers that came up top. Have not yet any quotes yet. But several told me that these big cells are not yet mass produced

unkel

In fact, I got this earlier from the manufacturer in your ad, Docan Technology 😂

soram

Ha, yeah I figured! I did submit a query. I'm sure I'll get the same response. But….. still in for 60-70 a cell if they materialise!

soram

But they can't really sell for that without the price for the 320s tanking to 25-30€. Also not bad.

peelo

If an affordable battery replacement was available then I'd gladly buy a used EV , I'm just not comfortable buying a used EV with a replacement battery cost that will negate the principle of buying one which is to save money , sorry the environment is a distant second !

deandean

Woah, that's LiFePO4n ;-)

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123378139#Comment_123378139

The benchmark is the €42.89 per kWh (ex VAT and delivery) that nkon charge per cell (next batch of B grade Envision)

With VAT and shipping the nkon cells are €904.74 per 16. If 25% extra per kWh, this would translate into 904.74 * 2 * 1.25 / 16 = €141 each. Anything below that and I would be tempted. The exact same price as nkon per kWh would be €113 each for 628Ah cells including all taxes and shipping

fred funk }{

Monster cells.

unkel

Got a quote, surprisingly good, $4640 for 32 cells delivered including all taxes. That is €126 each per 2kWh cell of 628Ah

soram

This is what I got today

unkel

Yeah, obviously Docan Power is not ready. You realise this is the same company that told me the cells are only for advertising and not yet ready for mass production? See above.

PressTheButton

From Off-Grid Garage:

"New EVE MB56 Cell: huge energy capacity, but bigger and heavier. Still good for DIY?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6tbt_U1cis

PressTheButton

EVE MB56 battery cells tested and reviewed by Off-Grid Garage:

All new EVE MB56 - World's First Real Test and Review! What does the Supercell bring to the market?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123647949#Comment_123647949

Yes he got a pre-production cell with some build quality issues. But I have been offered the mass produced ones a few weeks ago. Obviously takes a lot longer now to get them to Europe as opposed to Australia. As because of those Iran backed clowns all ships have to sail via Cape Good Hope and takes about 6-7 weeks to Rotterdam now, plus another 2 weeks to get to Ireland after as most stuff goes to Poland first, then France

I got my 530Ah cells a few weeks ago, performing perfectly and perfectly balanced too. I have a 48V 16S battery in my house (about 28kWh usable) and a 12V 4S battery in my camper (about 7kWh usable)

the_amazing_raisin

I don't really get the point of these cells for DIY use. It's basically double the size, double the capacity, double the price

I could just get 32 314Ah cells and have the same overall effect

I guess you save the cost of 2 BMS but not exactly a super saving. You could do a 16S2P configuration with smaller cells and still only need one BMS

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648074#Comment_123648074

Yes you could use 32 cells in 16S2P with just one BMS. But you would need a 3rd set of busbars, that you would need to pay extra for. Also far more points of contact, thus more points of failure. The bigger the cells, the easier and safer the build.

So if the total system price is the same more or less, the bigger cells are the better option. One drawback of the bigger cells is that nobody makes cases for them yet, so you would either need to make your own, or just don't bother with a case

In fact I just ordered 32 * 314Ah cells myself yesterday as I have some nice vertical cases incoming that I need to fill with cells

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648114#Comment_123648114

Yeah I wonder what, if any, DIY cases will become available for the big cells. You're talking around 300kg when assembled, so it'd really be a build in place job

The smaller cases are chunky enough at around 80kg but you can generally move them around a bit on casters

I could see the fat cells being a favourite of utilities or commercial sized installations, but we'll see how it goes

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648248#Comment_123648248

The 314's are more or less build in place too!

unkel

Even a 314Ah full case weight would be well over 100kg. And an awkward size too. My 530Ah pack was built in place in a home made plywood enclosure, sitting on the bottom of my heavy duty trolley (that can take 400kg)

SD_DRACULA

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648259#Comment_123648259

Nah I was surprised to find out 2 people can move a box around just fine, sure it goes easier with 4, if you got 4 handles on them 🤣

SD_DRACULA

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648114#Comment_123648114

The MB31s which you're not supposed to lay on their sides is it? 🙈

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648468#Comment_123648468

4? 4 dwarfs? I could nearly pick up that box on my own 😂

SD_DRACULA

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648473#Comment_123648473

Full box lol, 130kg or whatever, not just the 25kg shell, and I don't mean drag it around, talking stacking them on top of each other, because sure you can do it 1 man but not a fan of full disassembly

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648663#Comment_123648663

Ah I know. Half posting in jest. I have deadlifted 175kg though 😃

Exiled Rebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123379061#Comment_123379061

Is that delivered to the door? Would not mind buying 10 of them, that would work out at €1,260, add on a BMS and I'd have a 20kWh setup for a very very reasonable price.

Nkon currently have the Hina 14kWh ESS for €2k delivered. A brilliant price for a pre-built battery but a tad too small for me.

EDIT: Nkon similarly sell EVE 314Ah grade A cells for €62.95 each. If you buy 20 to make a 20kWh battery. Total delivered is €1,352.47. I think I'd rather pay the extra €90 and have them delivered from NL.

If I go with the Envision grade b cells the total comes in at €1,050 delivered. That is much more appealing over the big lumps from China imo.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123650007#Comment_123650007

You need 16 to reach the voltage for battery pack (15 is doable but 16 is better)

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123650049#Comment_123650049

Or 14, or 17 or whatever the hell you like including completely different chemistries, if it stays within the voltage range of your inverter 😀 I ran 12S NMC myself for the last year and a half

But yeah it is easiest to just do 16S LiFePO4 like 99.99% of people do, particularly if it is your first battery and you could do with help from others

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648259#Comment_123648259

True, and it's fair to say you probably aren't going to be moving the packs around very often, if ever

I'm just not seeing the "OMG I have to buy this" selling point of the bigger cells