Mortgage issue

Pauljmeh

Good morning all

Having an issue with getting a mortgage at the moment and wondering can anyone here advise.

I’ve never had an issue paying off any credit card debts etc but when ulster bank exited the Irish market I closed down my accounts and moved provider as advised. My understanding was those accounts were now closed but a year and a bit later I find out that there’s an issue with my credit rating when I was trying to get a credit card with my new bank. Turns out I received a fine from a rental car company after my Ulster Bank account was shut and because I never updated my new address (I didn’t think I needed to as I no longer banked at ulster bank) I missed payments on this for 18 months.

I spoke with ulster bank and they issued an apology and even said they would have any negative credit rating history removed so as to not affect future ability to borrow - this is all in writing and has been provided to my new lender. Fast forward another year and now it seems that this isn’t true and I have a black mark on my credit rating and my new lender wants this cleared before lending to me.

Despite having healthy savings and earnings and only requiring a small mortgage, this €220 is now stopping me purchasing a house. I’ve tried Ulster a bank/RBS but they’re just telling me a complaint has been raised and I’ve had nothing for the last 2 weeks despite numerous calls. I’m afraid going to the ombudsman will slow the process even more as this is time sensitive.

any advice on how to proceed?

itsacoolday

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058395717/mortgage-issue

Do not go to the Ombudsman, they are worse than useless. I know of one case there which is over 5 years and counting..

Pauljmeh

I’m really out of ideas on what to do. This is really time sensitive but every time I call RBS they tell me it’s being looked at and they can’t give me the details of anyone to speak about it.

Our combined earnings are €220,000, we have €300,000 in savings (which we worked really hard to get to that level) and we’re looking for a mortgage of €250,000. Neither of us have any outstanding loans and we have no bad credit (except for this).

Seems crazy that €220 is blocking us from purchasing a house

Boardnashea

I don't know about going to the ombudsman but you can certainly threaten it. There are finite time frames for dealing with a complaint so check these out and start to push if these are missed (not much help if you're trying to get a mortgage sorted)

Good reason to get your own CCR check done before submitting a significant application. It's free.

Jim2007

All financial institutions within the EU are legally obliged to report certain credit events to the CCR, it is not optional and the only way to get it removed is to settle the debt. So the starting point is have you settled the outstanding debt or not?

At this point I don't see what would be the nature of a complaint to the Ombudsman? That the institution complied with the law……….

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123158203#Comment_123158203

It does not work like that. All they know is that you have failed to live up to the terms and conditions of a financial product you bought. And a loans officer would be foolish to risk their bonus/career on you complying with the terms of an even more significant financial product based on your history.

There are only two ways to remove an entry from the CCR - the correction of a genuine error in law causing the matter to have been reported or the debt being reported as fully settled, in which case it will remain on your record for five years.

Pauljmeh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123160396#Comment_123160396

Thanks for the response. I’m not familiar at all with how this works. This is the first time I’ve had any issue so it’s all come as quite a shock.

There is no longer any outstanding debt, Ulster Bank have marked it as paid but there is still a record of this issue on my CCR file - despite ulster bank accepting the error was on their end as they didn’t communicate that there was an additional amount after I closed my accounts - they have provided this in writing.

My problem is this is blocking me from getting a mortgage despite it being a genuine error and not me being unable or unwilling to meet my obligations.

apkmbarry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123158203#Comment_123158203

Can your partner afford the mortgage in their own name? Can sort it out between yourselves after that.

Pauljmeh

She’s the lesser of the two earners but it’s something we’ve discussed this evening but as we’re married I’d be considered a dependant so I think this will be messy.

I’m actually shocked it’s come to this over €200 of which I never knew about for 18 months and as soon as I did I looked to rectify it…I’m genuinely shocked at how life changing this could potentially be, it’s seriously stressful atm

Buddy Bubs

If not already done:

Apply to more banks than the one causing you hassle.

Use a broker that may have some good bank contacts

Ask for an escalation of your issue to someone more senior in the bank

Post your dilemma on some public forums that your bank uses, tag them, twitter, LinkedIn etc , draw attention to how stupid they are. Maybe get a journalist who hates banks to do a story for you in a national publication! They do be stuck for articles based on the quality of what i read and might be interested in your story.

Joe Duffy show, the peoples champion

I'm all for financial regulation but this is beyond stupid if what you're saying is the full and correct story, banking loan officers must be surely on the way out in favour of AI if they can't make a human decision and just keep saying computer says no !

Avatar in the Post

I thought a debt had to be over €500 before it was reported to the credit register.

Secondly, why would UB be reporting the non payment if the amount was owed to a third party (car rental company)?

Have you something in writing saying UB have admitted their mistake. Have you sent this to the credit register?

Pauljmeh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123161725#Comment_123161725

Thanks for the responses I assume, and could be wrong here, that because my credit limit was above €500 that is why it’s reported. Happy for someone else to shed some light on this.

The car company pass along any fines received to the card used for payment for the car, which was the credit card I believed was now shut off.

I have something in writing and even have UB stating in a letter they will amend so that it has “no impact on my future ability to borrow”. I have said this to CCR but they have said they are just a database and don’t mediate, which is fair enough.

danfrancisco83

Have you settled the debt?

Pauljmeh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123161768#Comment_123161768

debt is settled and paid but I’m not sure if that matters as it flags on CCR

fits

I think getting the black mark removed is close to impossible. I had a similar issue with one missed payment when an old loan moved from one company to another.

Use a broker and explain exactly what happened. This is your best bet. If it was a once off occurrence you should be fine.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123161628#Comment_123161628

Debts written off by a financial institution are not considered settled and must be reported to the CCR. So as far as I can make out there is still and outstanding amount that has not been settled and consequently it remains on the CCR…. I've been here before with people in this situation - a debt must be reported as settled in full to be removed. You need to get back to UB, if there is nothing outstanding then they need to report it as settled in full. And regardles of your mortgage situation, you need to do this as there is no automatic removal after a time period.

runwithme

this happened me in 2007. Bank of Ireland had reported me, mistakenly to Irish Credit Bureau for not paying an old car loan off in full. I was due to draw down my mortgage the following week on my new home. 8m was a first time buyer, never had a car loan, as I was always saving to buy a house. I had to get it corrected quickly. I went to my solicitor who was dealing with my house purchase and he sent the bank a letter outlining the issues.

They corrected the information very quickly with the credit Bureau and i also received compensation for what happened.
the banks will only take action when you go legal. I have learnt this many times over the years. If you any help please feel free to pm me.

Pauljmeh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123161713#Comment_123161713

I don’t think it’s personal or anyone trying to f**k me over. There was simply miscommunication when closing my accounts and then me not updating UB (as I believed I was no longer a customer)

I don’t think UB care very much either as they’re no longer in the Irish market so not sure negative publicity will do very much.

I’m just a little surprised there is no room for context with mortgage application, particularly when I have no other outstanding issues, my wife has a perfect record, we both save, have decent incomes and don’t spend recklessly. The amount we’re trying to borrow isn’t huge or a big risk either. I understand that banks see this as me reengaging on my previous terms but this clearly isn’t that and that would be clear if context was allowed. 

Pauljmeh

Thanks again Jim. Ulster Bank have confirmed that they have amended the file to “paid by customer” and not “written off”

My understanding is that will now remain on my CCR file for 5 years and I’m told will block me from getting a mortgage during this period.

Pauljmeh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123161799#Comment_123161799

Thank you very much for the response Ruth. I could get my solicitor to send UB a letter, even though the complaints department seems to be entirely based in the UK.

Im not sure how solid my grounds will be as technically it’s miscommunication between myself and Ulster Bank. When I closed my accounts in their branch, I was told that they were closed and no further action required.

The reality was that my credit card account was still open and when a fine was charged to it I wasn’t aware and missed payments for 18 months. They’ll argue it was my responsibility to update them regarding change of address.

They only positive is they have accepted some liability in a letter and said that they will remove any historical impact because of the miscommunication from them, but this was the middle of last year and that still hasn’t happened and now anyone I speak to on the phone is afraid to stand behind that and I can’t get speaking to the person that I dealt with previously

Mitzy

OP you need to send a formal letter of complaint to UB. Doing it all by phone is one thing but you need to have a paper trail. I've had issues with UB in the past & I found that was the only way to actually get things moving along.

Best of luck!

Pauljmeh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123161881#Comment_123161881

thanks Mitzy and thanks to everyone taking the time to write in. I’m not in the financial sector so this is all very confusing to me and it’s very stressful for the family as we were sure we’d be buying a house shortly and our eldest is starting school in September so we need to move.

I’ve banked with them since 2005 and never had an issue, they were always great but this is a very negative experience now. I’ll take your advice though and start a paper trail

Pauljmeh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123161791#Comment_123161791

Thanks again Jim. Ulster Bank have confirmed that they have amended the file to “paid by customer” and not “written off” 

My understanding is that will now remain on my CCR file for 5 years and I’m told will block me from getting a mortgage during this period

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123163670#Comment_123163670

go to a broker. I had same issue and got a mortgage

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123163670#Comment_123163670

OK, I'm trying to get a handle on your situation….

• You closed your credit card account with UB and changed address
• At a later stage when applying for a new credit card you discovered there was an outstanding charge on your previous card and UB was unable to contact you. UB met their legal obligations at reported it to CCR
• You contacted UB and settled the debt in full and were mistakenly informed that it would not impact your credit history
• Now your choosen lender for a mortgage has taken issue with your credit report

Unfortunately the report to the CCR is factually correct and reported by UB as they are legally required to do. And the person at UB who told you that it would not impact your credit history was wrong. I don't see any way around this as no appeal can change the facts as you have described them. You could try talking to a solicitor to see if there is some argument that could be made as to the interpretation of facts, but I have no idea what that would cost.

There is a possibility for you to register a note on your file with the CCR explaining what actually happened so that future inspection of your file by financial institutions will include the explanation. But nothing will get away from the fact that it happened because you were ignorant of the terms and conditions of your previous credit line. There are often outstanding charges on cards and banks always have clauses in the T&C to deal with it.

At this stage I'd say you are looking for a lender that will see it as a minor infraction rather than a red flag. So maybe the best approach would be to talk to a broken and see if they can come up with a potential lender.

Pauljmeh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164110#Comment_123164110

Yes that’s a good summarisation. The only asterisks I’d add is the €200 was charged to my credit card after I closed my accounts with Ulster Bank. I was informed by ulster bank when closing the accounts that all was in order and my accounts were closed. I wasn’t aware of the €200 and wasn’t informed by phone or email by UB. I acted on the advice they gave me.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123164242#Comment_123164242

But this exactly the problem. Your account was in order as far as the bank was concerned at that point in time, but they have no way of knowing about any potential out standing amounts that might be presented. In some cases you should know if you charged something and it had not appeared on the account yet and in some cases neither of you would know, such as this where the card is used as a guarantee. It is an unfortunate set of circumstances, but I don't see any way to reverse it. Perhaps in the coming days some other contributors will come up with a feasible solution.

Pauljmeh

Thanks everyone. It’d be great to know if someone either deals with mortgages or knows what underwriters look for etc

From speaking to a broker his advice is to keep pressing UB to clear it, he’s certain they have that ability and have done so in the past but given how difficult it is to get a hold of them, it may take months and then they may refuse to do so in the end.

My feeling is it’s best to try and explain it to banks, that it was a genuine mistake caused solely by UB exiting the Irish market and a number of things slipping through the cracks, a situation that wouldn’t happen with a mortgage and that outside of this we’ve both healthy and reliable incomes plus good savings.

But I could be wasting my time with that too, I really don’t know

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123165989#Comment_123165989

As I said before you are in need of a loans officer that has a friendly disposition to your situation and none of us has any idea of who much effort that requires, you might find one in the first go and it might blow out after 30 applications, only you can decide how much effort to put in. Personally I'd try late in the year, during the festive season when some loan officers might need to make up the numbers for their end of year and people are less diligent…. but that is just a Hail Mary play.

Underwriters don't get involved in the decision until after the bank has already made the decision to move forward with your application. And their risk models can often lead to good candidates being rejected simply because the underwriter is over exposed in some risk factor. For instance if they feel over exposed towards workers in construction, then it does not matter how good your application is, they will now underwrite your loan.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123158203#Comment_123158203

You're competing against a massive amount of people for a small number of houses and the number goes up every month thanks to an increase in demand.

It could be the banks have hit their quota for this period of the year.

Pauljmeh

I wasn't aware there were factors such as this at play. I'll keep chipping away and hopefully some Bank will take into account the context of the situation.