First Time Landlord with classic tenant from hell issue

Quiggers59

We are lucky enough to have a holiday home. We rented it out for 4 months over the winter of 2023/34 to a family looking to move to the area and would be buying. Or so they said, in reality everything they said turned out to be lies.

After 5 months they left, Rent all paid.

But house was destroyed and we were left with €100's in utilities unpaid.

As they left they got new phone SIM cards and ceased communication.

Apart from E mail with a load of lies and denial they have gone to ground.

Now 9 months on a letter arrived to holiday home last week.

The tenant is using our address for a Mortgage Application! We were utterly unaware, and the letter was outside all other correspondence that this application must have generated. They are obviously having all correspondence to their e mail, but we got lucky that a letter arrived last week with some general information that clearly states our address is being used for a mortgage application. Who knows what other possible credit card debts etc are being piled up against our address.

We have of course immediately flagged up this matter to the Bank in question, but only on Friday of last week which was our first opportunity.

My question is this.

Is this application using our address (and be certain the tenant used this address long after departure ) classed as attempted Mortgage Fraud?

Will the Bank take any legal action against this fraudulent claim, has any one any knowledge or experience of such cases here in Ireland.

If I went to the Guards would they just shrug their shoulders and not be bothered.

And as a plot twist, the male tenant in this couple works for an Irish Bank in a senior enough role, yet the application is to one of the new type banks here in Ireland who are more into Credit Card and personal finance.

This was my first and last time being a landlord.

This was not a short term rental that went awry, this was a planned con and spiteful wilful destruction from the off.

And yes there are bad landlords, we were quite the opposite and much to trusting.

mrslancaster

Did you open their post? Afaik, you’re supposed to pass their post onto a forwarding address if you have it, otherwise hand it back to the postman or return to sender. Not sure what happens if the letter was opened accidentally. Check the An Post regulations.

DayInTheBog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123150524#Comment_123150524

I think there is a bigger issue here than opening a letter like the letters recipient using the property owners address in a mortgage application!

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123150524#Comment_123150524

The Postal and Telecommunications Services Act 1983 couldnt really apply here could it?

By the way, OP, I am no lawyer but yes, giving their false address is a crime under the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001.

CalamariFritti

Anyone can use any address for anything, they dont need to have lived there. I mean you could just pick a random address off google maps without you having any connection to it whatsoever, right?
What I mean is address means nothing. There is no fraud or credit card debt 'piling up' against your address. Thats not how it works. I mean it stinks and I understand how it would make you nervous but it cant go to sh1t on that level.

I think the most important aspect is fortunately already behind you as in theyre gone. Might change the locks in any case. If they're using that address for correspondence it might mean they think they still can retrieve post from that address.

steinbock123

Count your lucky stars.

They’re OUT of your property.

dring

this case doesnt belong in the tenant from hell category, they paid the rent and now they are gone, tenants from hell dont do these two things!

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123150553#Comment_123150553

Agree, but the property owner only found out about the address used in the mortgage application by opening someone else's mail which is illegal afaik.
Maybe when the tenant applied, that was their address, maybe the bank used a previous address on their correspondence in error. The OP had several options on what to do with the post, they also said they know where the former tenant works.

It is possible to accidentally open a letter for someone else, and if something odd was discovered as a result which could affect the OP, then take the letter to the local Garda station, imo.

Also agree about changing the locks, it should be done immediately when any tenant moves out.

Edit: could this also be a breach of GDPR regulations about data privacy - ie accessing someone else’s personal data without authority?

xper

the use of the address for correspondence could be a simple error as suggested or easily explained away by the former tenants as a mistake if that’s all it has been used for.

If the letter’s contents implied that the former tenants are claiming an ownership interest in the property as part of their mortgage application, that would be much more serious (and would require more than just filling out the address on a form). But nothing the OP has said suggests this is the case. And it would be a matter for the bank to chase up.

And yeah, opening the letter was technically illegal if it was addressed by name to the former tenants (Communications Act; GDPR doesn’t apply to the OP here, they’re not the data controller). What you should have done is return it unopened to An Post with ‘not at this address’ written on the envelope and it would have been returned to the bank.

As it is, the bank has been informed. They can tell you absolutely nothing about their dealings with the former tenants under GDPR rules. Don’t go near the guards. Get on with life

CramCycle

As others have said, change the locks, think no more about it, return such communication to sender, that's it.

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123150564#Comment_123150564

That isn't true. You can't just any address for any service as an adress is tied to identity. Banks and the law do not take kindly to using a fake address to borrow hundreds of thousands of euro from them. The reason is, it might be part of a ploy to hide credit history like defaulting on bills, or misleading savings ability or stability. It might be also used to mislead planning applications where there are residency requirements.

CalamariFritti

You cant legally and you will be found out but nothing stopping you from chancing/doing it is all I'm saying.

Kaisr Sose

What an awful series of events regarding the letting.

It's easy to open post for someone else they is delivered to your address. I would say anyone with a letter box has done it, or will do it at some stage. Personally speaking, you did the right thing to contact the bank and alert them to a potential fraud and your experience with them. After all, they proved to be dishonest, devious, deceptive, all hallmarks of fraud. Hopefully the bank have sought further particulars from them about their application. There is always the possibility that they applied while living at your property, but I'd so, they should have told the bank this way not their address anymore.

If you know where one party works, did you not try and pursue them for the cost of damage and utilities? I would.

itsacoolday

Have heard of much worse tenants than that. You were lucky. At least you got paid and they left.

Citizen Six

How come you cover their unpaid utilities? Were they not transferred into their name?

mickdw

They are gone, change the locks and forget about it.

It's very possible that they were clients of that mortgage bank while living at your house so I wouldn't read too much into that issue. At the end of the day, I don't see this could hurt you.

extra-ordinary_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058395224/first-time-landlord-with-classic-tenant-from-hell-issue

We rented it out for 4 months over the winter of 2023/34 to a family looking to move to the area and would be buying. Or so they said, in reality everything they said turned out to be lies.

A mortgage application would surely point to them intending to buy as not a lie?

The tenants lived at your address and applied for a mortgage, but you somehow think it was OK to open their post and further think that you or the bank are being defrauded??

mondeoman72

If the utilities are in their name, not your liability. As for post, return to sender. The only issue is the physical damage

Purple Mountain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123152782#Comment_123152782

Yes. I'd imagine the utilities dispute is between the named persons on the bills and the utility companies.

Unless the op didn't put the utilities into the tenant's names.

JVince

On mail, put "unknown at this address" and send it back to the sender.

Go even further - write on the letter itself "this is my address, the name on your letter is unknown at this address" - that's strictly correct as you are talking in the present tense.

Do the same for any other mail you get.

But its your name and not the address that gets a good/bad record, so I wouldn't be concerned. However if ever renting again, you take a full months deposit, make sure ALL utilities are in their names and have them show a zero balance on utility bills before the return of deposit.

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123152766#Comment_123152766

If they were declaring a false rental, than it is a lie. We dont know all the details. Yea, obviously in some cases it is ok to open their post.

Tull Considine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123150739#Comment_123150739

Only three lines....but excellent advice !