Local Roads - New Speed Limits

Pale Red

Yes, this system can be used to enforce average speed penalties, but that works require new law

That law must already be in for the M7 between Nenagh and Birdhill. Would not be a case and adding other stretches of road to the law. Possibly done by Statutory Instrument so a Minister can sign it without Dáil approval being needed.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176359#Comment_123176359

Typical response from only game is town type merchants. Anyone who doesn't bend the knee and fawn over official Ireland policy/ideas is considered some kind of inferior being. Reference the regular reference to childish/classroom behaviour on this and similar threads. No wonder people are so apathetic of politics in this country.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176579#Comment_123176579

And yet you don't attempt to prove me wrong.

Your contributions here have all been emphasising your perceived sense of victimhood. You try and portray us as anomalies in Europe when we try and reduce road deaths but clearly showing your lack of knowledge or experience on continental roads. You think roards should suit people within the safety of their vehicle and anyone else can seemingly feck off elsewhere.

And this all is not a personal dig at you - you're entitled to your opinion. But at least try and empathise with other road users!

No_Hope_Club

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176326#Comment_123176326

Better for who? Speeding motorists?

The default is now at an appropriate level for most of local rural roads. Any that justify a higher limit, that can be done.

Calling Road Safety "lazy virtue signalling" is insulting to anyone who has died on our roads. Their families would do anything to have them back.

By the way, calling roads "dangerous" may help you sleep at night but it's the users who make it dangerous.....go figure.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123177322#Comment_123177322

BBetter For everyone. If you think this nonsense as introduced will save lives, you are mistaken.

The attitude among all I've met so far is that nobody is driving to the 60 limit where the road is clearly fit for more.

More worryingly, the opinion among others is that if 70 is going to get you a ticket and points, you might as well do 90 or 100.

PersoPersonally what I've noticed attempting to stay at 60 on quite good local road that makes up much of the driving is that firstly, I quickly created a moving road block and secondly I found myself entirely bored sitting at that speed. That can lead to drivers being distracted and distracted drivers cause accidents.

Most worryingly of all, this boredom will without question result in a huge increase in drivers texting which is likely the most dangerous thing you can do while driving even if doing 60 kmh.

This won't help road safety. People driving to the previous limit were not the people being killed.

If they were serious about reducing deaths, they needed to enforce the limit not make law breakers outnof genuine good drivers.

No_Hope_Club

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123177490#Comment_123177490

Well, that's a new one. Slower speeds leads to more dangerous activities.....is that from an academic paper or a very bad joke in a Christmas cracker?

If you seriously believe what you've typed there, I'm very concerned for your safety on the roads. Next time your bored when driving, pull over. You'll do yourself and anyone else on the road a favour.

What's the definition of a "genuine good driver"?

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176019#Comment_123176019

I was on a 60 km ph road yesterday, the reality is the speed limit should actually be 30 km ph because if you did 60 km ph on it, you would likely crash.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123177943#Comment_123177943

Would the crash happen because you got bored driving at 60km/h and started texting though and not becuase the road was unfit for that speed?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123177943#Comment_123177943

You don't have to drive faster than the speed you feel comfortable at.

Jayuu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123178075#Comment_123178075

True but unfortunately as we see over and over again there are drivers out there who seem comfortable driving at all sorts of speeds that they shouldn't be doing on roads that aren't suitable for that speed.

Jayuu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123177490#Comment_123177490

The reality is that if you are a pedestrian the higher the speed you are hit at, the higher the likelihood you will be killed. See this report.

Hussain and colleagues (2019) presented their meta-analysis of 15 studies with a pooled
sample size of 36,138 pedestrian-vehicle collisions. All collisions involved pedestrians struck
by the front of a vehicle. 5 of these studies utilised data compiled from medical and police
reports, while 10 used data from on-scene investigations. Studies were from six countries
(China, Germany, Japan, South Korea, UK and US) across 38 years (1980-2017).
The authors analysed this data using a multivariate meta-regression model to develop a
statistical understanding of the relationship between estimated impact speed and fatality risk
for pedestrians. The results are summarised in the table below, and synthesised in Figure 1.

Table 1
Vehicle speed and percentage of pedestrians killed at that speed. 1
Fatality risk (Pedestrian) / Estimated impact speed
5% / 30 km/h
10% / 37 km/h
50% / 59 km/h
75% / 69 km/h
90% / 80 km/h

Unfortunately the table doesn't render well but the figures are pretty clear.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176326#Comment_123176326

it's interesting that some people are arguing a 'the default should be high, and bring the exceptions low' approach, and others are using a 'default should be low, and then tackle the exceptions to raise them' approach.

if we're deciding based on which approach covers the most roads appropriately, i'd hazard a guess that the 'default should be low' one easily wins. for every now 60km/h L road that could sustain an 80km/h limit (under the new system), i'd say there are tens of 80km/h L roads that probably couldn't sustain a 60km/h speed (old system).

an example:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1672741,-6.1296211,3a,75y,161.41h,82.25t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sIdNF08gzs3o_RruxdHII5w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D7.748723231644021%26panoid%3DIdNF08gzs3o_RruxdHII5w%26yaw%3D161.40872108743167!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123147973#Comment_123147973

and would you believe, on saturday, returning home, my parents in law were rear ended when they stopped to let an oncoming car past. of the three cars involved, they were the only one who didn't end up partly in the ditch. the guy coming behind had to be pulled out of the ditch as he swerved to avoid them, and the guy driving the oncoming car was also going too fast and briefly lost control, and my FIL reckons he sustained some underbody damage as a result.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123178075#Comment_123178075

Absolutely. Did over 100kms yesterday on L roads around Meath and Kildare and its a good job there was no enforcement, except for a tax/insurance check, as there would have been points issued galore.

At one point came across an 8 car rolling roadblock doing between 55 and 60kph. Luckily the lead car pulled in after a short while and the remaining 7 cars increased speed to approx 80kph, obviously slowing down for bends and stopping at junctions no less.

Later came across a guy doing a consistent 50kph, it was bloody torture and it was lucky he turned off after a few kms. Unfortunately that's going to be a real pita as time goes on as some really safe drivers always seem to travel at 10kph below limit, irrespective of the limit and road. Que a lot of unnecessary overtaking these guys from now on.

Anyone who thinks that there has been good communication around this change might want to reconsider as people in general don't have a clue what an L road is IMO. Was talking to a guy yesterday who was delighted that he had just passed the theory test ( getting a max of 40 out of 40 no less) but had no idea what constituted an L road (in fairness most aren't signed) and even though he was slagging me for going on about the ridiculous limits os some some roads, had no idea that the 60kph applied on a number of the roads he regularly traveled on. The irony of him giving out about others speeding and he himself happily doing 80kph on L roads.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123176382#Comment_123176382

Not hard to find schools where the speed limit when the school is closed is the same as when it is operation and people are going in and out.

No_Hope_Club

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123180415#Comment_123180415

Now I've read your post, I'll sleep soundly tonight knowing you're not involved in the setting speed limits.

TheRiverman

There are local roads in better condition than regional roads, yet our Government have this insane obsession with reducing speed limits. It's ridiculous and hopefully backfires

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123180415#Comment_123180415

any examples of the roads in question where you got unnecessarily held up?

and if some drivers drive 10km/h below the speed limit, this does not change what speed limits should be set on roads.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123180521#Comment_123180521

Christ what a juvenile response. Sweet dreams little fella

No_Hope_Club

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123180598#Comment_123180598

To be honest, being able to call anyone juvenile given the rubbish you posted is ironic.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123180415#Comment_123180415

And I right is understanding that you think that "good judgement" would be a better overall system than applying specific measurable limits?

And are you the person who drove your s-max into a flood until the engine cut out a few years ago? And had a separate issue because the brakes had been completely rusted due to not being changed in a while?

And you're now posting about knowingly breaking the law?

Am I understanding you correctly or am I way off the mark here?

I just don't think "good judgement" is a universally understood metric, the way specific measurable rules might be. Some people's "judgement" just comes across as "no foresight at all".

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123180203#Comment_123180203

Clearly the speed limit on that road needs to be reduced, it was the limits fault.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123180668#Comment_123180668

To put it another way, how many accidents are down to poor judgement rather than the limit being too high for a particular road?

If the vast majority were able to safely navigate L roads under the previous limit surely the limit was perfectly fine?

Poor judgement simply can't be legislated for, it will continue to happen as MB noted above. Reducing limits is a virtue signaling knee jerk red herring imo.

magicbastarder

If the vast majority were able to safely navigate L roads under the previous limit surely the limit was perfectly fine?

does not follow.

if they raised the limit to 600km/h on the stretch of road my parents in law live on, the vast majority of motorists would still be able to safely navigate the roads, that wouldn't mean the limit is fine.

maybe car sat nav systems could be configured to read out instructions - not directions like they currently do, but more like the lad who sits beside the driver in a rally car. '400m, hard left, 30km/h, slight bump leading into gentle right, 50km/h, mind the farm gate on the left because the farmer drives out without looking…'

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123180668#Comment_123180668

Oh look the little student detective has been busingly doing his little bit of research. Hilarious stuff. Not the driver in first instance and no idea what you're on about in the second.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123181737#Comment_123181737

Exactly, the vast majority of drivers can safely navigate our roads regardless of the limit by using their own judgement, yet the Government by reducing said limits is basically saying that they can't. This is the salient point, we're being told that most accidents occurred purely because the limit was 80kmh. Believe that and you'll believe anything.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123182061#Comment_123182061

Again, you are only viewing this speed limit change from the comfort of your drivers seat. You're failing to take into acocunt all other factors and all other road users.

Also can you please share a link of the person saying "that most accidents occurred purely because the limit was 80kmh"?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123182096#Comment_123182096

What other reason is there for reducing the limit other than blaming it on the limit? That would seem to be the position of the Government.

I cycle and i'm surprised you don't know that by now, and i've mostly never had an issue cycling on L roads under the previous limit, you're confusing being courteous with speed, entirely different things.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123177905#Comment_123177905

What I have noticed since the reduction of the speed limit to 60kmh is that, previously I would have driven over 60kmh on better stretches of some local roads but under 80kmh, driving to conditions and keeping my eyes fully on the road.

Now I find myself having to glance down at the speedometer more frequently to ensure I stay under 60kmh on those same sections of local roads. Therefore reducing the speed limit results in taking my eyes off the road more frequently. Is this a good thing?

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123158453#Comment_123158453

As a regular commuter on the N40 (for my sins) my own experience is that there are a large proportion of drivers distracted when using it. There were 2 accidents a morning last week about 100m apart heading east near the Bishopstown exit. One was where a car had rear ended another, the other 100m behind it had 4 cars in a line, 3 of which rear ended the car in front. I was approaching this in heavy traffic and the man in the car in the lane beside me was on his phone the whole way up to the crash site. A 161 Audi with handsfree no doubt. But bollix beside me texting away.

I've seen people with Zoom calls on their touchscreen display on that road. Women applying makeup in traffic on it. And once I witnessed a man brushing his teeth while crawling along in morning traffic.

I'd estimate over 50% of the accidents on that road could be solved by having a traffic corps Garda paid to spend the day driving from the dunkettle to the Ovens bridge bar and back again on a constant loop. Wouldn't cost much either. But that's far too simple for the Gards and RSA to do. God forbid we'd police the roads. Instead they stick a speed van after the Kinsale road roundabout travelling East once a month and hope for the best.