Firearms Certificate Conditions

Rifter

Has anyone encountered their Firearms Certficate being granted with a condition? (I have myself, but this one seems excessive to me)

I want and need to licence a rifle for fox/vermin control, I have land permission and can show good reason.

I've been advised, before even submitting the application, that my licence would have a condition that it could only be used on land permission(s) submitted to support the application.

From the conversation I would only be able to use the rifle on this single written permission and subsequently would not be able to use it on further permission(s) I may get, written or verbal, as they won't be on the system from the initial application.

Now I'm aware that Superintendents can attach conditions to a Firearms Certifcate as they see fit.

john_aero

Are you a member of a local gun club?

others will advice better, my understanding is if a member of a club your also allowed to hunt of clubs land.

This is how i can hunt pheasnt and rabits etc. on lot land as i am a paid up member of the local hunting club

Rifter

Unfortunately not, not for lack of trying mind.

My problem is essentially this condition would stop me getting any more permissions as they weren't submitted with the application. So even if I did get into a gun club, still trying, or get another written or verbal permission, I would be breaking the condition on my licence, if granted, if I used it anywhere but the permission Im submitting with it.

tonysopprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123090884#Comment_123090884

Use the FCA2 forms to add on any more permissions or memberships

Rifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123091230#Comment_123091230

Thats fair enough Tony, I wasn't aware I vould use the FCA2 for that, but does that then not mean that essentially I can never get/be given verbal permission off a landowner going forward, it will always have to be written. Or be invited to go shooting with somone.

otmmyboy2

Have you spoken with your FO regarding your concerns with this condition?
And, if so and not gotten anywhere, request a meeting with your superintendent to explain your reasoning why this would be an unacceptable burden, given the issues you have outlined above.

The FO does not put on conditions to FACs, the super, or their designate, does.

Rifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123091379#Comment_123091379

It was the FO who mentioned the condition and requirement for all permissions to be submitted. I was kind of caught on the hop tbh.

I'll be submitting the application anyways as I need it for the permission I do have.

Ill try and explain why it is a bit unworkabke, imo, and go from there 👍

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123091411#Comment_123091411

Do, have a chat and explain and see what they say.
Even at that point you can still make your case to the super.

There have been a lot of dumb conditions added to FACs over the years, but yeah this would impact your stated reason for the firearm so definitely worth pushing it.

VS800GL

What county are you based in ? I’ve never heard of this at all to be honest.

Rifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123091476#Comment_123091476

I know it was a suggestion from the FEC that all permissions should be written but, to the best of my knowledge, that was never turned into law.

Ill have a chat with the FO and hopefully ill be able to make my case

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123091518#Comment_123091518

Nothing from the FEC has been adopted in law, and permissions are still viable in both verbal or written format, but AGS want it to be only the latter, hence the push for it.

Rifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123091609#Comment_123091609

That was my thinking, I even had a look at the Firearms Act because I wanted to make sure I wasn't wrong.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123091411#Comment_123091411

Until it is on the back of your granted liscense paper that you get in the post ,its not a condition.I had sort of this problem last year with a restricted firearm,where my CS was asking did I use it on any other land than my own.I told him it was used on many ranges too where I shoot target shotgun.So I ended up with it being usable on my land to hunt and target shoot on any range holding a competition.

THEN the odd not discussed condition came up saying I had to store the trigger mechanism in a seperate safe. i got back onto the CS via the super to say this was a vexatious condition and I was not buying another safe just to store a trigger mechanism,and that it is a PITA to dissasemble and reassemble said shotgun model.Duely noted and hopefully so recorded in AGS.

Bottom line is,dont be afraid to speak up and go above your FO to speak to the giver of liscenses,be it Super or Cheif if there is somthing silly on your liscense

Rifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123091658#Comment_123091658

Ill just have a chat with the FO when Im dropping in the FCA1 and see what they say in person, make my case on the proposed condition etc.

If it comes back with the condition ill ask can I meet the Super. 👍

Rifter

If anyone else has any input that they think could help I would greatly appreciate it, either here or by PM

After reading the Wildlife Act 1976, Section 28 and the Commissioners Guidelines re Fox Culling and the suggested condition, I do feel anyway the condition explained to me is overly restrictive.

Rifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123091508#Comment_123091508

Sorry, missed this, PM sent

hiddenmongoose

Have you contacted NARGC over this, they should be up in arms over this, You are not the first instance of this happening I have heard of. This condition would also restrict/prevent you from visiting a friend for a hunt on their permission. It is a stealth ban on hunting under the guise of safety

Rifter

I have contacted them. They said they are aware of it happening. I

.243

put in your paperwork and say nothing to the f.o,some of those lads love to big it up as if they are the ones holding the authority granting a firearms license because they are receiving your paperwork,some of them would have you jump through hoops for no reason,if its granted comes back with an issue go meet with the organ grinder and don’t listen to the monkeys

Rifter

I put it in and I'm going to wait and see what happens. Hopefully it'll come back without the condition.

richiedel123

What district are you. I have a funny feeling I know before I ask. I know of one area something very like this is happening in. Pm me if u like

FutureGuy

hi guys just asking a quick question for family member

1) can a .22 gallery rifle rotary magazine be converted to hold only 5 rounds as per licence requirements

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123159433#Comment_123159433

Is that a condition on his cert?

Because for gallery rifle the standard is 10 round mags.

If it is coming from the FO or super I'd be pushing back hard on that, restricting a 22lr rifle to 5 round mags is ridiculous.

Also doing that to a rotary mag would be a massive pain, if possible.

freddieot

It's 5 rounds max for .22 unrestricted HANDGUN magazines. It's 10 rounds for .22 unrestricted rifle magazines.

Maybe that's where the confusion is with your local guys.

He needs the cert amended if it says 5 rounds. Anyway, I doubt there is any way to limit the ruger rotary mag even if he wanted to..

FutureGuy

Thanks all, yeah I think he should push back on that. I know little about shooting. Some of the wording on the license is so weird - it makes little sense to me. Forgot to ask him, but it says on the back you can't purchase ammo if you have over 400 rounds of ammo. Is that 400 total amongst all guns or is it 400 for each. Also, does it mean you cannot own more than 400 rounds period, or you just cannot buy more if you already own over 400.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123175769#Comment_123175769

The ammo part means you cannot possess more than 400 rounds for that gun noted on that licence.

But if you had another licence for another gun which had 600 rounds on it then you could have 1000 total.

In fact a lot of target shooters will have 1000 on their 22lr target rifle and another 1000 on their 22lr target pistol, allowing them to possess and purchase up to 2000 22lr rounds in total.

It is one of the more inane, pointless and punitive parts of our firearms licencing.

FutureGuy

Ah ok so he cannot own 405 rounds for one weapon, for example. So weirdly worded.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123175791#Comment_123175791

Exactly, yup.

It is incredibly dumb and yes badly worded.

JP22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123175791#Comment_123175791

Weapon??? - NO

We are not in the US of A, it's a firearm, a legally licensed firearm.

Grizzly 45

Even in the US the term firearm is starting to make some inroads.