Trump - The positives - (see Mod note in OP)

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123236547#Comment_123236547

This is - no offence - a fairly Trumpish way of looking at the situation.

The fact that, up to now, other western democracies have placed great reliance on the value of an alliance with the US and on the US's leading role in international affairs doesn't mean that the leaders of these countries haven't thought for themselves. On the contrary — they have thought for themselves, and the outcome of that thinking has been the conclusion that the best option for their countries, to date, has been reliance on the US alliance and on US leadership.

The reason this is changing is not because leaders are being required to think for themselves for the first time; it's because the US is no longer a reliable ally and no longer offers credible leadership.

If you think that the influence of the US in the world for the past fifty years or so has been basically malign, then you will see this development as a positive — the weaker, more disorganised, less influential the US is, the better for the rest of the world.

But that is perhaps a position likely to be held only by the far left and the far right. Everyone else is likely to see this development as more negative than positive.

(And, of course, if you look at this from the point of view of the US itself, the loss of US power, status, influence, competence, etc is an unqualified negative.)

Bishop of hope

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123236652#Comment_123236652

But that's your world view of it. Not necessarily the American voters one. It more than likely will lead to the US having to rebuild bridges with its real allies as you call them. Buy the world could be and indeed is changing as we speak, but has been for a while now. There's a new nationalistic sentiment creeping in everywhere. The German election is the latest proof of that here in Europe. Brexit prior to that. Trump is actually looking to split the eu if he can and basing his premise on that split leading to countries looking for individual deals which may in his, and others, view actually lead to a stronger US. He's already shown he is willing to throw Ukraine and Europe under a bus. And his voters knew what they were voting for. I'm just looking at the situation as it's developing, not as supporting it. But you have to admit that all our local democracies are struggling to come to terms with it and trying to keep America friendly while having to criticise it at the same time. Atm it looks like he has them all talking and plotting as never before and looking for alternatives. Earning their corn.

Sam Russell

In WW II, the USA supported the British Empire on a simple way - Lend/Lease. Not free issue, and at the end of WW II, the USA looked for the money back from the UK (the British Empire was in effect unravelled - with India gone). The Bretton Woods agreement sealed that.

The Marshal Plan saw enormous funding going to Europe to rebuild the shattered economies and supply humanitarian aid to the starving millions. Britain did not get this.

Uncle Sam was not that generous, as its main objective was peace in Europe, and containment of the threat of Communism spreading. This was very real in 1950s America, as Joe McCarthy was to prove.

Is Trump just a new incarnation of that nasty man?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123236723#Comment_123236723

…if the american economy shrinks due to all of this, how will they rebuild?

Bishop of hope

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123237102#Comment_123237102

I don't know if he is or not tbh, but he's certainly not doing anything anti Russian atm is he, or that's the way it appears.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123237198#Comment_123237198

Again a good question. But he wants American business and corporations based abroad back home or paying towards their own revenue system. He believes he can make America great again, that his tagine, so basically he doesn't believe its great now. He probably believes he can achieve self sufficiency and is probably going to cause a recession over there. But he believes he can bully things to suit his narrative and achieve his goals. The majority of Americans believe it too. He doesn't care what the world thinks either. His last term achieved little, but this time around he is going all guns blazing after his goals.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123237415#Comment_123237415

…oh im aware of the 'philosophy', but the reality is, how will they achieve this so called 'greatness', in a possibly shrinking economy, and if it doesnt happen, what happens with the whole maga movement!

Bishop of hope

And I know by your replies you don't believe it will work. As I said I'm not supportive or judgemental of it as such. Just observing the changes in a lot of countries to support a more nationalistic approach. Trumps riding the wave and if there is a measure of success in his approachit it could well spell big changes elsewhere too.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123237501#Comment_123237501

theres just no way it can truly work, most people with just basic economic understandings can see this, and i completely agree with them, this could be detrimental for america, and possible for many other regions of the world, including ireland

Bishop of hope

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123237531#Comment_123237531

Fair comment. I'm not an economist apart from running my own business, so really apart from observance and waiting to see what happens I wouldn't be fit to argue or agree your post.

Listening to other commentators and yourself I see the need for us to try to keep our relationship with America strong because of our corporation tax situation. But we must act to be prepared for the other scenario, whether Trumps vision works or not. But I wonder after his treatment of others so far, just two months in, if he gives a damn about us or any other economy?

Peregrinus

As someone who runs their own business, you'll be aware that Trump is very bad at running businesses, stiffing his creditors and incurring repeated bankruptcies. Rather than being a successful businessman, his (pre-politics) fame largely comes from playing a successful businessman in a reality TV show. This does not fill me with confidence that he will be amazingly successful at boosting a national economy by means which, the economists say, are calculated to shrink the national economy.

Your positive about Trump is, esssentially, that he forces other countries to recognise and respond to the reality of authoritarian illiberal nationalism. But this is not very different from saying that a positive about Hitler was that he forced other countries to recognise and respond to the reality of aggressive racist fascism. Causing people to recognise the very evil you exemplify is not really a positive.

Igotadose

He's threatening to deport nuns. That's positive.

"Confirming that the program is now set to end, recent guidance from the U.S. State Department says that “no [EB-4 non-ministerial] visas may be issued overseas, or final action taken on adjustment of status cases, after midnight March 13, 2025. Visas issued prior to that date will be valid only until March 13, 2025, and all individuals seeking admission in the non-minister special immigrant category must be admitted (repeat, admitted) into the United States no later than midnight March 13, 2025.”

https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/visa-program-used-by-thousands-of

Peregrinus

He's threatening to deport nuns. That's positive.

Only if you're a bigot. Which, of course, Trump is.

Bishop of hope

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123239619#Comment_123239619

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump#:~:text=The%20net%20worth%20of%20American,as%20of%20early%2DMarch%202025.

If you say he's not successful, ok.

I didn't exemplify anything I don't think. I merely commented that what he is doing is finally making other countries sit up and take notice that the stuff, you say I exemplify, is happening and maybe finally taking action to stop it happening.

The last couple of weeks of scurrying around organising security meetings and Zelensky meetings and show of support wouldn't be happening if Trump had followed on the Biden approach. The increase in defence spending and such matters as to make Europe less dependable on clibs like Trump.

Basically your post is a load of self righteous drivel which says nothing about the fact that the stuff you say I exemplify is actually happening. I don't exemplify it.

Bishop of hope

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2025/0307/1500706-us-ireland/

On a positive note, positive vibes for MMs visit and celebrations of Ireland.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123239863#Comment_123239863

You misundertstand me, and I apologise if I have been less than clear.

I'm not saying that you, Bishop of Hope, exemplify anything.

I'm saying that Donald Trump exemplifies — as in, he is a prominent example of — authoritarian illiberal nationalism. By doing so he forces others to respond to authoritarian illiberal nationalism — they can't ignore it in a President of the United States as easily as they can ignore it in, say, a Prime Minister of Israel. But I struggle to see any of this as a positive.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123239886#Comment_123239886

I wouldn't read too much into that. Irish American Heritage Month is proclaimed every year, regardless of who is president. I suppose Trump could have cancelled it, but the fact that he didn't isn't really a sign that things will go swimmingly for MM. Irish American Heritage Month is about Irish-Americans, and Trump has no beef with them. He might still see the St. Patrick's Day reception as an occasion on which to raise his beef with the Irish government.

Bishop of hope

Ok, well that was my point really all along.

It's time there was movement to realise that this Liberal nationalism is on the rise, and the Success of Trump has finally made European democracies in particular realise the gravity of the situation and maybe they'll take steps to try and stem it. As all eu countries hold their own free elections, a few of these is all that have to elect a Trump and it starts to split. More unity and solidarity with all these countries, including ireland is needed. Not just the German, French etc etc view.

Imo if that is the result of watching Trump, that's a positive.

Manic Moran

One thing which does seem to be going right for Trump is the Southern border.

That's a 94% drop from last year. In Feb 2023, the figure was 133,330.

Sam Russell

Has not Musk sacked all the guys that count these illegals crossing the border?

Hmm….

pah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123242761#Comment_123242761

Who is in charge of recording and reporting those figures?

spacecoyote

Yeah hard not to be somewhat cynical. Its possibly true, but when you look back and see some of his claims from the first time (like the stuff about bombing abroad etc... where he claimed he'd cut the numbers, but had actually just set rules to stop counting them)

Its all a bit nuts. I see that RFK Jr is now making the CDC go back to the old Vaccines cause Autism story and is making them investigate it.

It's really become a country where the patients are running the asylum!

Oh and no criticism of Putins latest round of bombing in Ukraine. Trumps reaction..."he's just doing what he thinks he needs to do to bring an end to the war"

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123243800#Comment_123243800

Border Patrol.

There is cynicism, and there is voluntary blindness.

Between the two militaries, over 15,000 additional troops have been sent to the border since January. USBP normally has about 16,000 officers on the Southern border. Plus thete are the very public new policies regarding those found on the US side of the border.

You don't think it's possible that might have a chilling effect on people making the attempt?

Trump can't order Mexican priests or Mexican border authorities to say they are no longer seeing people trying to cross.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/03/world/americas/mexico-border-migration-trump-tariffs-deadline.html

greenfield21

Trump also having a positive impact on fentanyl crossing the border.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/06/podcasts/the-daily/tariffs-fentanyl-trump-mexico.html

pgmcpq

If you say he's not successful, ok.

I didn't exemplify anything I don't think. I merely commented that what he is doing is finally making other countries sit up and take notice that the stuff, you say I exemplify, is happening and maybe finally taking action to stop it happening. 

The last couple of weeks of scurrying around organising security meetings and Zelensky meetings and show of support wouldn't be happening if Trump had followed on the Biden approach. The increase in defence spending and such matters as to make Europe less dependable on clibs like Trump.

Basically your post is a load of self righteous drivel which says nothing about the fact that the stuff you say I exemplify is actually happening. I don't exemplify it.

Your argument boils down to: The drunk driver on the road will force all the other drivers to pay more attention. You see this as a positive?

Bishop of hope

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123249424#Comment_123249424

Not at all comparable really, but if you see it on those terms then, more like the guy changing the rules of the road making the others come to terms with that. And yes, it's a positive if it makes them become more self sufficient and fix their own roads.

10000maniacs

Trump taking America out of NATO is actually a positive thing for Europe. Europe have the nukes to annihilate Russia on their own if it comes to that. It would never come to that anyway.

But troops on the ground wise, Russia can't even beat Ukraine after three years, let alone the rest of Europe. Poland would wipe out Russia in a week on their own. The Poles have pound for pound the best equipped army in Europe. Strategically Britain and France would run rings around Russia with conventional forces and equipment. Sweden and Finland would be no pushovers either. The Baltics would give Russia a good hammering too as would Turkey for good mesaure.

Trump is making a big mistake here with NATO. Their biggest threat is China. And China could easily recruit a force of 20 million soldiers. A non NATO verison of the USA up against China would end in disaster for both but especially the USA.

crusd

Trumps policies have wiped 120billion off Elon Musks net worth. Thats something to celebrate

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253475#Comment_123253475

He's wiped a lot more than that off almost every publicly traded company in the US

He's meeting Michael Martin today and he respects the far right so it should be a good meeting

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253667#Comment_123253667

Since inauguration day the S&P 500 is down 7.2%. Tesla is down 47.7%. Apple is up marginally, Ford is pretty flat but rising since start of March. Its by far and away disproportionally impacting the tech bros

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253667#Comment_123253667

Except by US standards Micheál Martin is somewhere to the left of Stalin. 😂