Comms Fault with HKC ID Sensors

DartryK

I have a 12 year old HKC SW-1070 panel, with ID sensors on a couple of zones. I just got a Comms Fault alarm for P72, which is the last sensor on Zone 7. Thinking the problem was with the sensor, I removed that device off the system to prevent false alarms until I get a chance to fit a replacement.

However, a few minutes later, I got a Comms Fault alarm on P71, which is the next sensor in line on the same zone. So now I'm wondering could the problem be a general comms fault on the zone, maybe caused by a wiring break. Does this sound like a reasonable theory? I don't want to start messing around with wiring if the problem is just faulty sensors, but it seems unlikely that two sensors have gone faulty in the space of a few minutes…

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome!🤔

altor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058387020/comms-fault-with-hkc-id-sensors

When you say, you removed the sensor, did you just delete the sensor or remove the sensor and delete from the programming?

How do you know its the last sensor?

I wouldnt just go by the number as these can be setup anyway on a loop.

DartryK

Hi Altor, this has turned into a bit of a saga since I posted my question! So here's what's happended up to now:

1. I tried removing the sensor in question from the system as per the installation manual. No effect. Once I left Engineer mode the Comms fault seemed to have cleared itself, then after half an hour or so the same fault reappeared.
2. I went in and out of Eng mode again to clear the fault, then tried setting the alarm with that zone inhibited, only to be lifted out of bed half an hour later by a full alarm caused by, yes, you've guessed it, the same Comms fault again!
3. Had to leave the panel in Engineer overnight to stop it beeping with the Comms fault.
4. Got the original installer out yesterday (man knows the SW-1070 system inside out). After a couple of hours changing out sensors and checking functionality, we eventually decided that there must be a wiring fault in the ID data circuitry, so I said I'd check that out myself. Another night in Eng mode and no alarm (wife getting very concerned at this stage).
5. Spent most of today belling out the circuits. I designed the layout myself and oversaw the wiring installation by my own electrician (the alarm guy just fitted the devices and installed and configured the panel for me), but I realised today that the installer must have used his initiative during the install, because the wiring is not exactly as it was originally run. Anyway, I did every continuity test I could think of, including running leads around the house to jump between the panel and various device locations. I didn't find a break or, as far I can tell, a short circuit, but I took advantage of spare cores to double up on some of the connections anyway. All devices on the zone were disconnected and reconnected numerous times during this process and everything seemed to be working as expected, including the original device that I had removed at the outset.
6. Did a full system diagnostic, including full walk test (where I actually found an ID device that had never been connected - I've no idea how I didn't pick that up before now!), all good.
7. Exited Engineer ("No Faults Found"), tidied up my tools, had a cup of tea and once again, half an hour later - Beep, Beep, Beep! "Comms Fault Zone 7!!" I swear I nearly took a hammer to the panel!
8. Decided the best thing to do is just remove that whole zone off the system and stick in RF devices (there's only 3 devices on that zone, so not a big deal). And now I'm stuck, because nowhere can I find how to remove a zone. Setting the Zone Type to "Unused" seems to have no effect at all, and physically disabling it by disconnecting all power and data to the zone created a general Comms Fault that prevented the panel from setting.

So now I'm facing into a third night with no alarm and vocal concern from herself!

Assuming I'm going to throw my hat at this and just make this a wireless zone, what are the steps? Or maybe you have some suggestions as to something else that I could try, to sort out the wired setup?

Finally, do you think there's any possibility that this is actually a panel fault and I might need to junk the whole system and start over with an up-to-date system? I really like this system and I'd hate to throw it out, but sometimes you've just got to face reality!

I'd really appreaciate any thoughts you may have…

All the best.

DartryK

P.S. I just had a thought - I could wire the 3 ID devices straight in to the panel, so I can guarantee the integrity of the circuits. If that works, then I can be certain that the issue is with the wiring and RF is the way to go. If I still get the same error then it has to be a panel issue.

Would you agree?

altor

Thats why I asked how you removed it from the system.

If i was to delete an ID sensor, I would also remove the ID cable in the device as this will still cause comms issues.

If you remove the devices cable going to the data, in the sensor, plus delete the sensor itself in the devices menu then it will stop the comms fault. I would suggest doing this rather than just going striaght into adding wire free devices.

If it does not trigger any other device on the loop when removed this way then you know it was the sensor itself causing the issue and simply replace the sensor.

DartryK

Thanks for this, Altor. At this stage I'm fairly certain that the device is not faulty, as I got exactly the same issues when I replaced it with a new one.

However, there's been a further development today. Before I had a chance to do anything more with the devices, the panel suddenly lost mains power. The 3A fuse on the power supply had blown. After a lot of faffing around with wiring, trying to see if I had done anything to cause the issue, and burning through a bunch of fuses, I finally figured out that the power supply was kaput. Took it out and wired it directly to a fused plug and sure enough, blew the fuse when I plugged it in.

So my installer kindly gave me a spare power supply and I stuck that in. We're thinking that maybe the power supply was going on the blink and causing surges or power fluctuations that were causing the panel to throw the Comms faults. At one stage today while the mains was off and the system was on a discharging battery, it threw several other random faults including lost comms on one sensor on another zone. I was able to get that sensor back on line once the new power supply was up and the panel voltage was stable again and all the other faults disappeared as well.

Anyway, I've put everything back now, with the mods to the data wiring that I already did, and sitting here with fingers crossed waiting to see what happens in the next half hour or so!

I'll keep you posted on any further developments…

altor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123043031#Comment_123043031

That explains it as when the device was losing power it was getting a comms error but normally you would have this on many devices. My next port of call would of been the battery in the alarm system.

Lets hope this sorts the issue

DartryK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123044287#Comment_123044287

Well, almost a week later and I'm delighted to report that everything has continued to work perfectly. I'm nearly afraid to say that the power supply seems to have been the problem, but so far, so good!

Thanks again for your support on this. Your helpful advice to amateurs like me is very much appreciated!

Take care.

altor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123064714#Comment_123064714

Sounds like the power supply was the issue from the start.

Happy you are sorted