Car crash, who is at fault?

hedylamarr

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on this situation. I was driving along the n4 and was driving in my lane past an exit leading off to the m50 when a lorry swerved from the exit lane into my lane to avoid another car who had stopped on the exit lane. My five year old was in the back seat and would have been in direct contact with the lorry if I hadn't swerved to avoid him. In the process I hit the car in the lane next to me, denting the side of his car. The lorry driver claimed responsibility for swerving into me and exchanged details along with the driver of the car I collided with. The car who stopped on the ramp drove away. The lorry driver had a dash cam so I'm hoping they got the reg. I'm just worried now that I'll be held responsible for hitting the other car?

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058386160/car-crash-who-is-at-fault

I'd report the incident, then contact your insurance for advice, you'll get all sorts of answers here.

Bogwoppit

From the information you’ve given us it’s likely the lorry was at fault as they did not react safely to the obstruction in time.

mikehammer..

Record /photograph the incident

Let insurance deal with it

Buddy Bubs

Let your insurance deal with it and don't let it upset you too much, sounds like nobody was hurt.

At a guess, I've dealt with many insurance claims in the course of my work, we have a fleet of 32 and accidents happen...

The car stopped will not be found liable for the crash at all.

The lorry driver insurers will probably fight it hard, they didn't collide with anything.

Your insurer will pay for your vehicle and the other vehicle damage and will try to close it quickly if no personal injuries.

But once everyone is OK that's the main thing

Orban6

You are responsible for hitting the car in the lane next to you.

T-Maxx

The truck caused an accident so will be held responsible firstly I'd say. But you cannot simply stop on a motorway for no reason so there's definitely some shared responsibility here but like mentioned already as there are no personal injuries the claims will be relatively minor so no-one should be too fussed to settle and move on.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123006919#Comment_123006919

But you cannot simply stop on a motorway for no reason

It was on the N4, presumably in the hard shoulder section there. Plus you are assuming it stopped for no reason rather than broke down or whatever. Either was, you can't hit a stopped vehicle!

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123006990#Comment_123006990

On the exit on the right hand side for m50 I think, loads of cars take the exit by accident being in overtaking lane and they wanted ti keep going east towards the city, I have seen some stop there when they realised their mistake. I've also seen them veer lanes suddenly as they realise their mistake. Quite a common occurrence, both very dangerous as we see here.

beachhead

No contact between yourself and the lorry.The insurance will deal with you and the car you hit.

hedylamarr

The first car had missed the turn off to the m50 and tried to turn in at the last minute but didn't make it so they were stopped halfway across the m50 exit lane and a little island thing between the two lanes. The lorry driver panicked when he saw them and swerved instead of hitting them.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123007031#Comment_123007031

Yeah i know it well, I've seen it loads of times. Just make sure you report all details and let the process take its course.

It's a bit of a chain reaction accident you got caught up in, but that's what the insurance is for. Your insurance will definitely pay the car you hit as they suffered a loss, they may or may not try to pursue the lorry and the first cars insurers to recoup losses but you can't really affect their decision.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123007002#Comment_123007002

Hadn't thought of that possible scenario. I guess then, this is what dashcams are for!

Lenar3556

Based purely on the account, it would seem to me the primary fault lies with the lorry driver. He was unable to stop his vehicle within the distance that was clear and needed to take avoidance action by moving into another lane. Admissions by the driver at the scene is also relevant.

The lead car which stopped perhaps shouldn’t have done so, but I think it’s unlikely that they will be found to be at fault.

What in fact happened and what can be proven are two separate matters, although if the lorry has camera recordings this may be helpful. Have you or the Garda obtained it?

The reality is that insurers have wide discretion when it comes to settling claims and they will follow the path of lowest cost, even if it is not necessarily the fairest.

I think chalk it up as unfortunate and allow the insurers to sort it. Notify your own insurer and provide all of the details if you haven’t already done so.

Sadb

Your insurance will pay for the damage, it was your car that collided with the other car. It doesn’t really matter if the lorry or first car were at fault, they didn’t collide with anyone.

dubrov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123007992#Comment_123007992

Of course it matters who was at fault.

The first car stopping may not be considered at fault though

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123007992#Comment_123007992

That is not necessarily the case.

Sadb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123008304#Comment_123008304

Do you really think the lorry drivers insurance will pay out when the lorry did not collide with anyone?

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123008756#Comment_123008756

Quite possibly, but it will depend on the evidence that is in existence as to what occurred.

Just because he didn’t hit anything doesn’t mean he wasn’t at fault.

If you drive down the road in a negligent manner and force oncoming traffic into the ditch in their attempt to avoid you, you will be liable for the damage, even if you didn’t collide with anything yourself.

Sadb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123009013#Comment_123009013

I didn’t say they weren’t at fault just because they didn’t collide with anything, I said it doesn’t matter if they are at fault, considering they did not collide with anyone.

Posters insurance will payout, not the lorry.

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123009078#Comment_123009078

I don’t get your point? The driver whose negligence has brought about a collision is ‘at fault’ and it is open to any other party who is at a loss to pursue that individual for damages. The fact that the ‘at fault’ driver didn’t sustain any damage to their own vehicle isn’t materially significant.

It is entirely open to the OP to disregard the view of the lorry drivers insurers and to pursue both the driver and and operator of the lorry for damages is they wished.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123009013#Comment_123009013

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123009522#Comment_123009522

The OP has no way to achieve this end other than by indemnifying his/her own insurer for the damage which they caused to the other person’s car when they swing across into the other lane (by their own admission) and caused the collision. Whether they have a claim against the lorry is irrelevant to the person who was hit. Unless it can be proven to the satisfaction of a court or the lorry’s insurer, it will also be irrelevant to the OP.

beachhead

Spot on,Marcusm

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123010514#Comment_123010514

I don’t see why the OP would wish to indemnify their own insurer against a claim?

But regardless of any potential claim against them, they could pursue the lorry driver for damages. (how successful such a claim would be will depend on the evidence).

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123010586#Comment_123010586

There is no potential claim against them, there is an actual verified claim for damage caused by the OP in leaving his lane and colliding with another car. Based on what he has said here, there is nothing to stop his insurer from paying out on that. Whether that insurer has a claim against the lorry is dependent on evidence which the OP does not have - could he have braked in his own lane? Was there another action he could have taken? Collided with the lorry rather than the innocent car? His claim against the lorry sounds as if it is poorly grounded unless he has dashcam evidence or independent witness evidence. And even with that the cost would be prohibitive. The OP is looking at a claim, loss of no claims bonus, reassessment of his risk and a higher insurance claim. He has no power, that is the nature of motor insurance.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123010586#Comment_123010586

If the OP settles the claim via insurance, they insurance company will look at the cheapest outcome for them amongst all potential outcomes. The OP will have no say in what outcome the insurers go with. Nor would the OP have grounds to then claim from the truck driver.

JVince

Whilst you are not at fault, it will be your insurance that the driver of the car you hit will claim from.

Your insurance may in turn claim off the truck's insurance, but unlikely unless it's a major claim.

alias no.9

Was rear ended at that junction a good few years back, similar scenario, gobshite in front of me stopped dead in free flowing traffic. I managed to stop but the car behind me didn't.

The car in front pulled across the hatched markings so close to the start of the kerb between the city bound and m50 south lane that they joined the m50 south lane as if they were coming on from a T junction and nearly caused another crash.

I got details of the car in front and gave them to the gardai and the driver behind but there was no follow up. It's very likely that the OPs insurance will just settle.

Panrich

I feel for both you and the lorry driver in this scenario. The idiot who stopped dead in a traffic lane deserves the blame but he seems to have just caused mayhem and drove off. I saw a lady a while back in front of me at the airport exit of the M1 pulling off and just stopping dead in the outside lane on the corner and getting out and opening the back door of her vehicle. Luckily there was nothing in the inner lane and I was able to go around her but I'm not sure what happened next.

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123010618#Comment_123010618

There are no claims against anyone yet. There has been an incident and simply an exchange of insurance details. The lorry driver has however accepted that he was at fault at the scene.

The OP can pursue him for damages in the district or circuit court. Whether that action would succeed or indeed if it would be wise in the first instance would require a careful examination of the evidence. My point being that all parties are not necessarily at the mercy of the insurers.

Lenar3556

The insurer has significant latitude in deciding how to settle any claim made against the policy holder, and they can do so without the consent or agreement of the policyholder.

But in no way does this prohibit the same policy holder from pursuing an action against another party, in this case the lorry driver. Whether such an action would be prudent or not is another matter - we don’t know the relevant facts.