Which carriage is first class on the Dublin to Belfast train?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122945637#Comment_122945637

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122946333#Comment_122946333

of course there is no perfect comparison, every country is different.

Netherlands higher population and density I already took into account by suggesting a lower frequency, a frequency of just one hour to every city (Cork has the demand for some 30 minute departures, but not all day), by comparison the frequency in the Netherlands is between 15mins and 30mins.

Sure the distances are even shorter in the Netherlands, though you do have to consider that they have lines that also go to Germany and Belgium and even the Eurostar to London!

In reality the distances in Ireland a relatively very short, with the speed improvements proposed in the AIRR, Cork should drop to just 2 hours and Belfast 1h 30min, etc.

Those are relatively very short journey times, most people aren’t going to be too bothered with paying higher fares for fancier train service, etc. for such short journey times.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122946414#Comment_122946414

Didn't have enough kitchen carriages to switch to hourly and keep services for all trains on Dublin to Belfast.

Also you can't charge "whatever you want" because it's so easy to bring on food or just not eat for 2/3 hours which is the most any Irish train takes.

BeerNut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122945200#Comment_122945200

They've even moved on from the Leap card equivalent. It's all just tap-and-go with contactless now.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122948115#Comment_122948115

If only it were equivalent, I've two here with ~15 each on them and I can't cancel them for refund without physically tapping them at a TVM.

Which requires me to go to the Netherlands to do.

Leap can be cancelled/refunded to any IBAN all online.

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122947628#Comment_122947628

What on earth does that mean

1. The only route that does proper catering is Dublin Belfast. Any other kitchen carriages are redundant on other routes, so can be swapped to Dublin-Belfast if needed ; there are only 3 or 4 needed to make it work , the DDs are doing the other trips.

Now if you said there's no TPWS/AWS on the kitchen carriages and they're all driving carriages then that might be a decent answer but I am not sure that's the case

1. I am well aware of how long it takes, and by definition Translink make their trains with catering work, so why can't IE on the same route ? Price is not a factor here, as you can charge punters whatever is needed to make it viable.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122948468#Comment_122948468

So if you charge 30e for an average burger that will work ?

I wouldn't be looking at what NI or the rest of the UK does as an example of what works. The place is a sht show full of massively overpriced trains.

I'll take my Limerick to Dublin trip at 15-25e over the UK and their dynamic pricing any day.

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122948492#Comment_122948492

What makes you think it will cost that much ? No need to pay rent or electricity etc . The catering prices on Dublin Belfast are reasonable enough to me on the translink sets ?

And what does any of it have to do with ticket pricing ; there's no food included on any Dublin Belfast ticket prices

Stonekeeper2024

They are going to have to do something about the inconsistency with the Enterprise 1st class, half the time now you will either get the faux first class 22000s or an NIR CAF which is a cattle car and has no first class at all.

The 22000s often don't even have the on board shop open ffsake, it's closed half the time. They also only have a trolly service. If a set is going to have a half-assed first class, then the kitchen should at least be open so they can offer those customers a hot meal and the rest a shop for some tea etc

Yes were not France but 2 hours is a long journey in Ireland, the only longer one is Sligo or Cork, so is it too much to ask for?

goingnowhere

The first class fare reflects the different offering. A higher fare applies on Enterprise sets vs ICR

No first class is sold on the C3K

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058383224/which-carriage-is-first-class-on-the-dublin-to-belfast-train

None of them.

Not really.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122958384#Comment_122958384

The blue symbols on the journey planner indicate what is available on each train, and the first class pricing reflects the comfort levels offered.

Full catering info is on the IE website:

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/travel-information/rail-onboard-catering#belfast

DoctorPan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122948468#Comment_122948468

Regarding redunant kitchen carriages being reused, you're robbing Mk4s off the Cork line, you have to go through approvals and other factors to clear the Mk4s for use north of Drogheda.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122965179#Comment_122965179

I think that the issue re kitchen use is more related to the Premier Class ICRs and the lack of funding for them to be used to the full.

They can produce meals (albeit limited in nature).

As I understand it, there wasn’t funding agreed with the two governments to provide the additional staff and supplies for using the kitchens on the ICRs that a meal service would require. Catering doesn’t make a profit per se, but rather adds to the USP of the train.

That may change in 2025 hopefully.

In any case, until new rolling stock is delivered for the Enterprise, there is always going to be a disparity of service offered depending on the class of train used and that’s not going to change.

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122965179#Comment_122965179

what ? As LxF says 22k ICRs is what we are talking about . I flat out don't see why they can't be used for catering at a price for food which washes its face or at least isnt loss making , as by definition the DD sets are running with catering so the price agreed with the DD set catering provider is acceptable , so why cant the same be done for our stiff ?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122965605#Comment_122965605

As I said - it’s a funding issue - more funding is needed to cover the additional staff.

Catering on trains is a cost - it always requires subsidy, which is what has caused the lack of catering on much of the network - the NTA were refusing to pay the additional cost for it.

What it does do is add to the USP of using the train and can generate marginal ticket revenue as a result.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122965605#Comment_122965605

Very hard not to be loss making when you factor in that the vast majority on the train won't use it.

And then if you charge a high price it needs to be high quality which cuts your margin big time. If you don't then the few people who might eat on a train won't.

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122965618#Comment_122965618

Rather than be obstructive, I do get that, but the DD sets run with catering , why don't the ICRs , surely the Enterprise is a cross-border agreement ? no matter what sets are running it, the same subsidy is required

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122966392#Comment_122966392

They are additional services that are being funded by both governments (Dept of the Taoiseach in Ireland’s case) - the additional funding that was provided by the governments to fund their operation did not extend to funding the additional staff that would be required to staff the kitchens on the extra ICR operated trains.

That may change next year.

Stonekeeper2024

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122966632#Comment_122966632

According to the Translink staff, the southern state is not even providing proper pay to cover southern FT pass holders, to the point where they are considering no longer accepting southern passes at all until the govt down here agrees to a decent funding level.

So it does not surprise me that they'd neglect to fully fund the service re: the kitchens. Watching those kitchens on the ICR go to waste is a disgrace, an utter disgrace. The shutters are always down, and there is not even a trolly most of the trips, but to have a proper clean newish ready to go kitchen sitting there not used is so ridiculous.

If they could spend less time farting about at photo ops cutting ribbons and "opening" things, they'd have time to do their actual job.