Shannon hydroelectric Scheme and why we cant think big any more?

celtic_oz

Was reading about Ardnacrusha and was struck by this :

Completed within 7 years of Irish independence in 1922 at a cost which was equivalent to one fifth of the Irish state's annual budget, the plant enabled an enormous surge in demand for electricity across the country and demonstrated the ability of the new government to develop during a difficult financial period.

Now we just seem to dole out cost of living allowances (without means testing- because its too hard to means test ?? ) and trip over ourselves building a hospital !?

Even onlookers are puzzled by our lack of imagination :

KrisW1001

Workers who died during the construction of the Shannon Scheme • Chronicles

What would the reaction be today to such a death-toll?

Sam Russell

Just look at the plans for Average Speed Cameras on motorways.

We are getting two new stretches at different ends of the country from the one in Bird Hill each stretch to be a few Kms.

Now if I was proposing it, I would have cameras fitted with ANPR, and logging the NP and time, I would put about 15 of these per direction between Naas and Limerick, and any vehicle passing any pair of cameras before their allotted time gets a ticket. Any vehicle passing any camera without valid Motor Tax, NCT, or Ins gets a ticket. No Ins gets a call out to the roads Gardai to intercept that vehicle.

The same should be done for M1, M2, M11, M7, M8, M4/6, over their whole length. All handled initially through the post.

Anyone presenting to court for a RTO must hand in their licence prior to the hearing. No licence, then points and a fine, then hearing later when licence produced, with a likely ban.

All road traffic offences to be heard if a hearing is required within 3 months.

With such a simple setup, I doubt anyone would speed, or risk no NCT, Ins, Road Tax.

bk

Interesting point, we have added the equivalent of three Ardnacrusha worth of electricity storage over the last 18 months with Battery Storage Systems (BESS)!

The thing is, we are definitely building, your average person just isn't aware of it. The BESS systems added over the last 18 months, the new synchronous condenser that went into Moneypoint, massive amounts of wind farms and now increasingly solar farms, Greenlink Interconnector finished construction, testing to begin soon, Celtic Interconnector under construction.

Sure, more to do, in particular with offshore wind.

Ardnacrusha was a great achievement, but the loss of life was terrible and it isn't really a good thing that it took 1/5th of our annual budget!

The fact that massive energy projects are now being delivered with the public barely even being aware of it or having such a loss of life or impact on budget is a good thing.

MayoSalmon

Anymore? lol

the_amazing_raisin

Oh we can think big, the problem is we don't have the productive capacity to build large infrastructure projects economically.

As they mention in that TLDR video, there's been years of underinvestment in many sectors meaning it's going to cost a fortune to play catchup. On top of that we've a shortage of skilled workers meaning we're already using the capacity we have.

We're also a very high cost economy meaning that any project is going to automatically cost significantly more in labour costs. IMO this is all the fallout from austerity and years of ignoring long-running issues.

I generally agree with the idea of using the tax surplus to establish a sovereign wealth fund, but I'm hoping this in turn is invested into long term projects to ensure our population has the skills and resources it needs for decades to come rather than a few short term maximal profit areas

millb

There are 2 major projects not far from Ardnacrusha.

1. is the Shannon water to Leinster (Dublin) project - Uisce E / I Water leading this with a few local objectors -

2. Silvermines pumped hydro storage - recently got funding for planning / design studies (badly needed - to supplement the Turlough Hill type energy storage) Scotland and Wales have progressed 8 or 10 of these since Turlough Hill demonstrated the benefit.

Interconnectors aside - our big gap is the marine / offshore and port handling infrastructure which just has the Foynes rail-link in progress.

Glenomra

Just reminding people that tours of Ardnacrusha are available to visitors. It might require a phone call to arrange but it's a wonderful experience for both adults and children if ye are visiting the Limerick city region.

munchkin_utd

its easy to say things like that (in the original article) from a UK perspective where regional governments have some power but Ireland is a strange country in that local government has very little power and everything is decided in the capital if its any way expensive.

For a comparison, Munich city council last week signed off on a city budget of 9.7 billion euro including nearly 3billion of investment, which dwarfs Dublin city councils 1.34 billion complete budget. In Munich, the city council is the prime driver for Ubahn or tram construction so local needs can be assessed and without getting into some sort of spat with rural dwellers taking the hump that cash is being invested in the city, the city has a free hand to make the deals and get on with it.

Or look to Rennes in France who have a dinky driverless metro system linking the university, the old city and the rail station transport hub from where heaps of buses bring people further afield. Something like that would be perfect in Galway or Cork but the national government always gets tangled in providing more roads for Mayo and afraid of the uproar if they do something useful in the cities, than biting the bullet and building the needed urban infrastructure. If you look at the history of the Rennes system (and its a SYSTEM, not just a standalone small line like youd possibly see in Ireland, where the buses were reorganised around the metro and taken out of the city) it was driven by the city council for the benefit of the people in their area https://chronologie-tcsp-france.fr/rennes/

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122838957#Comment_122838957

The UK is a bad example, everything revolves around London and the cities outside of London have relatively poor public transport compared to mainland European cities.

I didn't want to reply to your comments about Munich's population over on the other thread as it is wildly off topic to the Finglas Luas and there is actual news about that now. But you mention the 6 million figure is inaccurate. Fair enough, but the Munich City population is 1.5 million and urban 2.6 million. That puts it at least twice the population of Dublin.

On regional government, the problem here is our local councils have zero interest in public transport etc. Look at Cork, you have the NTA trying to do BusConnects and CLuas down there, but you have the local councillors trying to fight them every step of the way.

Even in Dublin you see the same, with the nonsense with DCC and the changes on the quays.

Keep in mind the NRA/TII was formed because the local councils were so bad at building roads. Local councils don't have a good track record of delivering infrastructure. The only way we started to get anything decent delivered in this country was with national bodies like TII, NTA, etc.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058378322/shannon-hydroelectric-scheme-and-why-we-cant-think-big-any-more

It's a good point. The emphasis today is all on vote buying with cash in the pocket rather than infrastructure. If I'm not mistaken the Shannon Scheme, while phenomenally costly for the free state, was also a loss leader for the contractor Siemens, who were using it to get a commercial foothold in the English speaking world. Unfortunately for them, World War II got in the way of that plan.

celtic_oz

Bit of a laughing stock it seems

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122776466#Comment_122776466

Don’t forget about the massive amount of grid infrastructure that has happened and is currently ongoing.
The amount of infrastructure upgrade that is going on now is incredible!

silvertimelinings

BESS isn't "Big" which is why it is happening. Those BESS plants are inobtrusive compact installations. Hydro, Windfarms and other large infrastructure problems are "Big" unweildy projects which sometimes can't get off the drawing board.

ednwireland

no one is prepared to build because it will be needed. everything has to be costed with paybacks etc and not just built because it's the best thing to do.

consultants reports etc.

a lot of railway companies went bust.

despite all the criticism of costs the elizabeth line is struggling with capacity at peak times.

Geuze

Yes, we need to be ambitious.

Much more ambitious.

Targets like 2040 to double 20-30km of railway line between Galway and Athenry are bonkers.

That sort of job should take 18 months.

Geuze

Good description of what causes the delays by Barra Roantree.

https://howtotaxandspendit.substack.com/p/irelands-procedure-fetish