Upgrades done. Upgrades to do. What do do?

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122840806#Comment_122840806

The enhanced board is 16kva rated

Main board should be matched to supply capacity

Theres a big grey area out there atm with "google electricians" maxxing out supplies charging batteries

Absolute madness what they're at

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122841728#Comment_122841728

The board and presumably the busbar are the only component that wouldn't be rated for the load going through them. To my knowledge, everything else within the board is rated, as almost all new breakers were installed. Only the priority switch for the electric shower and car charger remained unchanged. These were originally on a separate board, but were added to the new board by the electrician, which to be fair is a lot neater, but takes up pretty much all the extra ways I would have had on the third row.

My demand is high between 2am and 6am when we are charging one of the EVs at 7kW and my solar batteries at 5kW. The base load of the house outside of those loads would be 500W or less. The batteries (40kWh usable) cover the house until the 2am the next morning, except for peak demands exceeding 5kW such as when the electric shower wants 8-9kW for the 10-15 minutes per use.

I just had a new CT clamp delivered for my EV charger, so that will at least keep the house load below the threshold. I think 14kW would be the max I would want to see the overall load at, mainly controlled by the CT on the EV charger. Although I literally just replaced my Triton T90Z with a T90SR last weekend out of necessity (T90 died), I will be getting rid of the electric shower next year.

The main ESB fuse is 80A, same as the isolator breaker. The main isolator in the CU is also 80A.

drury..

Youre looking to overrun the supply capacity

80A max demand exceeds the mic

Not safe to be advising you further . You haven't a clue anyway what you're at

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122843724#Comment_122843724

Clearly I'm trying keep below the 80A limit.

How does 80A exceed the limit if the fuse is 80A?

You don't have to respond or provide answers, but drop the attitude if you do. I'm having an electrician do everything, so what your problem? The electrician I paid still didn't do the job properly and installed an under rated consumer unit. Go figure!

2011

@drury.. keep it civil.

meercat

o.p can you confirm what supply you are getting from esbn now (not what you hope to be in the future)

is it 8/12 or 16kva

I think the main issue is that you are maxing out your distribution board for long periods of time every day. This isn’t a good idea and it would be better to overspec than cut it so tight.

what is your rec saying when you bring your concerns to him

Esbn say max demand for

12kva is 52amps

16kva is 70amps

from your posts previous you are trying to keep below 80amps which exceeds both recommendations

https://www.esbnetworks.ie/new-connections/understanding-connection-capacity

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122846106#Comment_122846106

There's loads more at the same crack. They're over on the renewables forum

Deliberately creating a potential hazard by overloading your installation

Madness

drury..

...

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122846310#Comment_122846310

oh I’ve seen it alright. Potential ticking timebomb.

drury..

Has to be called out this carryon

No spark in his right mind would be maxxiing out his home supply and filling his attic full of batteries

I'll hazard a guess a lot of these Google electricians are probably upping their 12kva by simply changing up the main mcb to 80A

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122846106#Comment_122846106

Yeah, my supply was upgraded from 8kVa to 12kVa in recent months. The ESB fuse went from a 60A to an 80A fuse.

One of the problems is the info from different RECI's and the ESB site itself varies. The ESB link you provided seems to be quite conservative considering a 16kVa connection gets a 100A fuse. 70A seems very low. The ESB electrician who installed the 80A fuse told me the fuse is good up to 100A, but not for sustained periods. Maybe talking out of his hat, but my own use case up until then supports what he was saying.

So, my previous 8kVa MIC would have been 35A? My EV would have been drawing 32A for 6+ hours at a time and my oven about the same, which would have been maxing out my setup then. What about the rest of the house load? Kettle going on, Games consoles running. Home/Gaming PC etc etc. Even with the 8kVa and 60A fuse, my home would have been consuming near the max on a regular and sustained basis.

The RECI who carried out the recent work (installed my solar, upgraded the tails and changed the board) was aware of my plans and even tried to talk me out of upgrading my supply, saying it wasn't necessary. There's some amount of BS then depending on who you are talking to. Then others are getting their knickers in a twist when someone has a battery installed and wants to charge it overnight. If we can't rely on the "professionals" who are supposed to know what is needed for an installation, then what is a customer who hasn't a clue supposed to do?

Anyway, thanks to everyone who has been helpful here. I'm now more inclined to have my MIC upgraded to 16kVa. While that won't let me increase my load beyond the 80A isolator already in place, it will be an additional safety measure having the higher capacity main ESB fuse. I'm also going to push to have the board upgraded to what I asked for.

drury..

16kva MIC is ~70A upper limit according to ESBN

Using ESBN guidelines below, your 80A max demand equates to a theoretical 19.3 kva MIC requirement

"Maximum Import Capacity (MIC) is the upper limit on the total electrical demand you can place on the network system"

"As a general guide: an appropriate MIC = (Maximum Demand / 0.95) x 1.05.

0.95 is the standard factor to convert kW to kVA, and 1.05 allows a 5% safety factor."

meercat

I can’t see any contradictory advice on this thread.All I can see is knowledgeable posters giving advice and backing it up with relevant information. Most of these posters are regular on this forum and know what they are talking about. It’s up to you to take the advice or not.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122847172#Comment_122847172

Not here. But here vs what I have been told by a RECI and an ESB RECI.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122847022#Comment_122847022

Good pointer. ✌️

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122847175#Comment_122847175

You're confusing 2 different things

1.. is the maximum you can redline the installation at without something blowing or worse

2 ..is an acceptable maximum demand on a 16kva mic and enhanced board etc

2 is normal safe practice whereas 1 is potentially hazardous and an unsafe practice

...Ghost...

Small update on this. After a bit of back and forth with the solar company, using the helpful advice received on here, it looks like the fuseboard that was installed will be upgraded to an enhanced board. I suggested the Hager Vega 3 or 4 row boards and apparently the electrician works with these and is happy to replace my fuseboard.

I wasn't sure if they were going to pull through because the electricians were contracted. I was prepared to offer an alternative of maybe having their roof guys install 4 more panels on my roof if I supplied the panels. These guys put 12 panels on 2 roof sides in the space of a couple of hours, so adding 4 more would be done before breakfast time. I would have got another company upgrade the board in the new year.

It's not done yet, but it's definitely looking like it will be sorted.

Special thanks to @meercat who pointed me in the right direction on the fuseboard.

meercat

good to hear

As well as all the other recommendations posters have suggested

See if he’d seperate your socket circuits with rcbo’s

That’ll prevent an earth leakage taking out all your power

Specifically see can your heating,immersion,fridge and shed circuits be protected this way

Not sure if your hand dryer is rcd protected but it should be

And I’d wonder why your old cooker is on the rcd

Definitely go for a 4 row board and metal if possible

Looking forward to the next update

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122919656#Comment_122919656

Hand dryer ! ? 👀

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935715#Comment_122935715

😂

As it's the under stairs toilet, it's often used by guests, especially during parties. Hand towels can be pretty unhygienic sometimes, so the hand dryer gets used (assuming people wash their hands 😐️).

It's also the overflow WC, so if you need to do a sit-down job, sometimes the hand dryer gets activated when you reach to get the loo roll 😂😂😂

it was a cheap deal on adverts and i like the look of it

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935737#Comment_122935737

Lol, missed that

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935737#Comment_122935737

Handy seat warmer then!

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122919656#Comment_122919656

This is taking an age to sort out. Finally agreed on a 3 row Hager Vega with the Electrician which will be ordered and hopefully installed soon. He wasn't convinced it was needed and says the existing board is what they install in most domestic properties. I stuck to the line that the product has a label stating it's only 63A rated on an 80A setup and he agreed to go ahead and replace. The solar company will pay for the board and the Electrician does the install. That's between them.

The 3 row board is wider than my existing one gives me 54 mods (18 mods per row), where the existing unit only has 36 (12 mods per row). Looking at the existing setup I have, the entire third row will be empty, which is exactly the space I wanted in the first place. 4 rows would just give me too many ideas 😂

Also getting a mini CU installed on the other side of the wall where my inverter is. That will be an extra for him, so not a wasted day (or half day I suspect, as most the work is done already). The spare 32A is already there to feed that. This will power the small shed when I get around to sorting that out and will in turn free up the existing 20A shed circuit from the main CU. I really don't think I should have insisted on a 4 row board, just because I could have. I didn't think it was necessary if i'm also having the mini CU added for the shed circuits (led light and 2 double sockets at most) as well as the side passage lighting (again, a couple of LEDs and a single power socket).

I'll ask about the rcd protection of the heating, fridge etc when he is on site. I was thinking about running the fridge/freezer off a backup circuit from the inverter. I figure a double socket would suffice to take the fridge and one other item could be plugged in if necessary in the event of an outage.

meercat

thanks for the update

It’s unlikely that he’ll leave an entire row blank for you. He’ll probably try spread it out a bit to make it handier and neater to work on. He may also use rcbo’s which are double the size (although you can get single mod)if he separates the circuits as requested

Ask for a photo of the inside of the board before the cover is fitted and also to install a few spare mcb’s for future works .then all all the switches will match.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123045120#Comment_123045120

I'll ask for the spares, as some will come with the board anyway. I'll try get a snap before he closes it up and if not, i'll isolate the board at the meter and have a peek behind the cover for a snap.

I assume he should take out the 100A switch from the advanced board and leave the 80A in because that is what the main isolator is after the meter?

meercat

you stated in a previous post that you were upgraded to a 12 kva supply
the over current protective device should be rated for 63amp in your meter cabinet

if you eventually upgrade to 16kva then an 80amp is permitted

the main switch in your distribution board is rated for 100amp which is permitted as it’s just a switch for isolation purposes and not a tripswitch

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123046459#Comment_123046459

That's right, my supply was increased to 12kVa and the REC installed an 80A OC device in the meter cabinet. ESB changed the main fuse out from 60A to 80A after this when I was also getting smart meter installed. My EV charger has load balancing, so I can restrict the load by up to 7kW. Also plan to get rid of the electric shower this year, flattening the curve.

Thanks for clarifying the switch in the CU. I had thought it was supposed to match the rating of the OC device.

So, I know the OC device should be a 63A unless I have the 16kVa. I know I will need to increase the size of the meter cabinet to accommodate for the enhanced supply. And I know I will be ripped off by ESB getting the supply upgraded from 12 to 16kVa. Though it is more than just a fuse change this time around. No other works were carried out on site.

...Ghost...

Final update on this.

The sparks called today to replace the board. It wasn't the Hager Vega we agreed on, but that's less important than keeping the Hager components from the other board and getting the extra room in the new board. I also like that the face of the board is gloss white and doesn't have the transparent cover the Vega does.

Anyway, because the new board (Garo) was wider, he had to do a bit more fiddling about, as the Vega would have been the perfect dimensions for the space. I was hoping he would fit a mini CU which he said he would, but because it took longer than expected and he was under time pressure, that has to wait and it wasn't priced.

I'm delighted that there is now plenty of extra mods.

So, I took a snap before he closed it for those who are interested in that kinda thing. Also took a couple of snaps after he left. Everything is the same (circuit wise) with no changes or additions. I wanted to ask some of what was suggested above, but I could see the chap was trying to his work in good time, so I left him to it.

Now, I hope that's up to scratch. My next job is to tidy up that area. I think I might tile around it and build another cabinet around it.

JL spark

bit of a mess that , miss matched breakers and no cable management, at least you have more room

Sorry to be putting more issues on you ,

The bus bar in that board is not rated for 16Kva

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123113779#Comment_123113779

I was wondering if it was rated or not, as there was no marking I could see.

While it's better again than the previous board, which was miles better than the original, I agree it's not what it should be and not what was agreed for a replacement board. I've just lost patience dealing with it.

They have to send one of their electricians tomorrow because my solar inverter isn't reading the grid since the power was turned off and so my solar isn't generating as far as I can tell and my batteries are not feeding the house. Suffice to say I won't be using them again for any paid work and I think I will quicker do the research and do the work myself. Overall disappointed with the whole thing, save for the fact that it's better than the sh1t show I inherited with the house.