The cost to upgrade public transport ticketing system to contactless - how much?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701368#Comment_122701368

The NTA have said already that 90 minute fare will be rolled out in the provincial cities when they start rolling out the new BusConnects networks there, but when that will happen is entirely depending on funding and driver/vehicle resources.

It does apply on the recently launched city/town services in Kilkenny, Clonmel and Carlow.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702079#Comment_122702079

Well cash is still taken on all other public transport services outside of Dublin, so not as big an issue unless you want to save money.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702098#Comment_122702098

Yes I know it will definitely be implemented but I am saying the practical application of it should be different to Dublin. I don't know about town services but it is definitely not in city services yet.

It should be assumed that you tap for single and ask for 90min.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702162#Comment_122702162

I listed the other locations where it is in place so far.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702086#Comment_122702086

FYI your can register your contactless card with the Oyster website/app and view your spend and transaction history of your contactless card there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702231#Comment_122702231

Interesting, so it looks like these three have a single flat fare that gives you 90 minute of travel. €1.10 for Kilkenny [1] and €1.50 for Clonmel/Carlow.

It will be interesting to see how this will be applied to Cork, Limerick, etc. which have two Adult fares, I think dropping the "short" fare and making it a flat €1.50 90 minute ticket makes sense for these cities. Only a relatively small jump (though I'm sure some would still complain) from the €1.35 short fare and better value and would greatly simplify the ticketing setup and greatly improve dwell time if they introduce the right hand validators.

I've long argued for dropping the short fare from Dublin, though the 50c difference is a much greater gap.

Interestingly the TFI website claims the following, which I don't believe is currently true, but perhaps a sign of this coming soon:

https://www.transportforireland.ie/fares/bus-fares/

Bus Éireann single city fares in Cork, Galway, Limerick, and Waterford are €1.50 for Adults and €0.75 for Young Adults (19-25), Students, and Children when using a TFI Leap Card

This is clearly not true, the Leap adult short fare in Cork/Limerick is €1.35 and the long fare is €1.55 and the young adult is .65/.85 not .75

So perhaps a sign of a flat €1.50 90 minute fare coming to Cork/Limerick soon.

[1] I note that the TFI site claims Kilkenny is €1.10, while the Leap website claims it is €1.50

https://www.transportforireland.ie/getting-around/by-bus/kilkenny-city-services/

https://about.leapcard.ie/about/fares-discounts

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703562#Comment_122703562

Is there a "long fare" in Limerick ?

I know Cork and Galway have one for certain longer distance routes.

Was €1.50 the old price before the recent cuts to public transport prices. I kinda remember 1.65 but not really sure to be honest ?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703562#Comment_122703562

You’re overthinking this - it’s quite simply that they have not updated the TFI website for the correct fares.

The town services LEAP fare is €1.50 since the recent fare changes in June.

Any potential fare changes will be set out in a fares determination report beforehand.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701848#Comment_122701848

Well they all (I think) have off-board ticketing for all transport which is a very different setup. I don't see what's so particularly great about the Swiss system at least.

p_haugh

On TFI Go, the likes of Limerick, Cork and Galway seem to only have one fare option for a single ticket that costs 1.35. Athlone, Balbriggan, Drogheda, etc. have the same option, but priced at 1.50.

Of course they all have the daily & weekly tickets as well.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703597#Comment_122703597

Provincial city service LEAP fares (Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford) are EUR 1.35 or EUR 1.55 (where there is a longer fare - certain routes in Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford)

Town service LEAP fares are EUR 1.50 in Sligo, Athlone, Navan, Dundalk, Drogheda, Kilkenny, Carlow and Clonmel.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703867#Comment_122703867

Correction - the 313 has a long fare - I've corrected my post!

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703867#Comment_122703867

Sorry I know it's off topic but any idea why some big towns have buses and some don't ?

Were the council or politicians in those counties just better or more active in looking for a service than say places like Laois or Clare. Or are the other places maybe served well enough by TFI buses or Local Link.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703902#Comment_122703902

History and lack of political will to invest in public transport historically - we've never really had a proper town service network across the country. Drogheda and Dundalk were the only ones historically, but Bus Éireann then added Sligo, Navan and Athlone town services.

To be fair to the NTA that is something that they have identified, and they have rolled out services in Carlow, Kilkenny and Clonmel, improved services in Navan and Drogheda, and there are new town services planned for Portlaoise, Mullingar, Ennis and Letterkenny to be launched between now and 2027.

Wexford has a commercial town bus service.

CalamariFritti

Just for the slow ones like me please…

Where does that 2.7bn figure come from? People are saying it's 243 million, but it's over 10 years so actually 24 million per year.

Which still seems a lot of money but for a big nationwide project not completely mad money. Probably still ends up two three times that and probably is mad but not 2.7bn mad. So where does the 2.7billion come from?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703965#Comment_122703965

Thanks.

Good to hear they are more in the works.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703975#Comment_122703975

its the entire framework value, so if every single potential project gets built ASAP and gets its ticketing implemented, it will be from that vendor under that framework.

TerrieBootson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703975#Comment_122703975

From the wah wah article, it looks like 2.7b is the maximum potential spend over a period 0f 20 years. The article is intended to outrage, not to inform. But former daily mail "journalist" so what should we expect

CalamariFritti

Thanks and yes the article's intention seems to 'spark' but at the same time why would a public body set up such a number even if only potentially. It seems counterproductive and would of course lets say raise eyebrows.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703602#Comment_122703602

What I'm suggesting is either the TFI website is wrong or they accidentally published future plans ahead of time.

This claim on the TFI website simply has never been true:

Bus Éireann single city fares in Cork, Galway, Limerick, and Waterford are €1.50 for Adults and €0.75 for Young Adults (19-25), Students, and Children when using a TFI Leap Card

Cork doesn't have a single city fare, nor is it €1.50 (or €0.75 for young adults) Cork has always had two fares.

It is possible that the folks who updated the TFI website work in the office who are preparing the next fare determination report and updated the website with the wrong info early.

And no the Cork/Limerick fare wasn't €1.50 either before the 20% reduction, it was €1.68 for the "short fare" which is now €1.35.

Either way, a flat 90 minute €1.50 fare is the right move for Cork/Limerick, etc.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704208#Comment_122704208

I really do think that they have simply mucked it up - they've just put wrong information up.

They updated the Cork page with the town fares and not updated the town pages for the revised fares.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704253#Comment_122704253

Maybe, but it is an interesting muck up, because it really does make logical sense. With Corks/Limericks fares being 1.35/1.65, set a flat fare of €1.50 like the other town services makes sense.

For me it is obvious that the NTA has been inching it's way towards a single flat fare. We saw them combine the child fares into a single flat fare over time, now we have the town services on a single flat fare. Splitting the difference between the 1.35/1.65 to set a single flat fare would make sense as a next step.

Of course they could also follow the Dublin approach, make the 1.65 the 90 minute ticket and leave the 1.35 as the flat fare. But the problem with that is it leaves you having to continue to interact with the driver, as unlike Dublin, the vast majority of people are getting the "short fare" and there isn't the benefit of the right hand validator and only very limited oppurtunity for interchange between buses compared to Dublin.

The thing is, I'm not overly worried about the cost of the fares, more about how do we make it as simple and quick as possible. Leap cards are painfully slow to use in Cork/etc., much slower then Dublin. We desperately need to find ways to speed it up and reduce the dwell times.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704188#Comment_122704188

Because if they didn't have a framework agreement, every new thing - e.g. ticketing for the Finglas Luas extension - would be a change process and cost twice as much.

And we're looking at Finglas Luas, Ringsend Luas, Cork Luas, Metrolink and potentially some reopened or new rail lines within that period at the low end of expectations.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704772#Comment_122704772

plus the general fleet expansion/replacement

riddlinrussell

Essentially the tender is saying "all works stated, and anything else we might want to handle ticketing for during the contracted period up to a value of 2.7 billion"

Pauliedragon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703902#Comment_122703902

I live in a big town in Cork and we were the 1st place outside of Dublin to get a 24hr bus route with a bus every 15 minutes during the day. Problem is it's about as useful as tits on a bull so they promise u everything and deliver **** all a lot of the time.

MayoSalmon

We are a bizarre country it has to be said

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122705085#Comment_122705085

Why is it useless ?

Reports are the town bus services are a big success.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122705085#Comment_122705085

While we know BE is having particularly bad staffing issues which are causing them serious problems in Cork (they don’t have enough drivers to deliver the schedule), the other reason that the 220 is unreliable is the severe traffic in Cork and the lack of bus priority measures.

We’ve gone through several rounds of consultation on planned new priority measures for the city that have ended up being watered down at every stage to facilitate cars.

The traffic delays mean that you they would need to use more buses and drivers to deliver the same timetable, which the company doesn’t have.

The 220 timetable is amongst five routes being cut temporarily from the 20th of October in an effort to come up with a timetable that can be delivered with some degree of reliability.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122705167#Comment_122705167

The 220 isn’t a town service, but a cross-city route in Cork from Ovens & Ballincollig to Carrigaline & Crosshaven via Cork city centre.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122705285#Comment_122705285

I am aware of that but the poster said they "promise u everything and deliver **** all a lot of the time" in relation to my post about the town services so I was pointing out the promise was delivered in those instances.

As for the 220 I get that it has problems during peak times but going 24hr surely was not "useless" which the poster alluded to.

Here in Limerick we were promised our first 24hr bus and got it pretty quickly. You can now get the bus home from the nightclub if you live in the Ennis road area.