Irish Indo - Greatest players of all time ranked in every position

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704311#Comment_122704311

There is a huge amount of hate from certain areas of the country for Clifford. He has one below par game and next thing he's no good.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703163#Comment_122703163

Still makes little sense.

You almost can't even complete players from the 2000s to players now, not to mind players from the 30s or 40s.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704379#Comment_122704379

Yeah agreed -

I think with these things you either suspend the disbelief, or you just ignore it.

You cant obviously compare across eras. You can say who was the best of their time, or who was the most influential. Like that thing of Kevin Heffernan 're-inventing the role of the corner forward'….but was he any good?

Funny enough - the all time highest scorer in all Ireland championship football is Cillian O'Connor, and not just that but his scores per game outperforms all other players in the top 20 highest scorers - and yet he is nowhere near this list. Just food for thought.

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704371#Comment_122704371

Nah that's just you

I see sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704371#Comment_122704371

Saying soemone had a bad match isn't 'hate'.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704707#Comment_122704707

Read comments on social media and you'll see what i mean. Although i get a feeling you already know what i mean.

cms88

Explain?

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704701#Comment_122704701

Explain?

I see sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704864#Comment_122704864

I don't have any social media. But fair enough.

Is it Kerry supporters or other supporters?

dxhound2005

This exercise was done in the year 2000, the Teams of the Millenium. And then there is the Hall of Fame. It wouldn't be hard for a journalist to rob those resources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurling_Team_of_the_Millennium

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAA_Football_Team_of_the_Millennium

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAA_Hall_of_Fame

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704976#Comment_122704976

As i said it comes from two particular parts of the country

bucketybuck

People don't hate Clifford.

They are just sick to their holes of him being overrated. He hasn't earned it and it isn't based on achievement. He has gotten more awards for being David Clifford than he has ever got on actual merit.

And don't pretend he isn't overrated, when here he is literally named as one of the greatest players of all time.

Its a joke.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122705688#Comment_122705688

Never won anything on merit? Care to explain that one? What exactly was it based on? Out of interest what county are you from?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704864#Comment_122704864

Your mistake there was reading comments on social media.

FullBack Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122705688#Comment_122705688

I agree with your first sentence. Don't agree with the rest.

It's not hatred. It is obviously jealousy and begrudgery. I have been playing and watching football for the past 40 years, and I haven't seen anyone as good/talented/skillful as D Clifford. I have never heard of neutrals turning up to Croke Park to watch a junior club match, basically cause one particular individual was playing. He (with help from the brother) brought their small little club to All-Ireland victory. He scored 4 goals and 4 points in a minor All-Ireland final. That is 16 points contributed in a game by one person. In my opinion, he has gone on to prove the promise that he has shown as a youngster. He's not going to be spectacular in every game, and detractors will try to point to a couple of performance that were off colour.

Dublin dominated for over a decade and their fans contended that they were the best team ever. It was a kick in the balls to them that Clifford came along 8 years ago, taking the plaudits of being the best player at an individual level, and a lot of those fans tried to dampen his abilities whenever they could. It's understandable and human nature. But in reality, the majority of GAA fans can see Clifford as he is - a player that can do things on the pitch that no other player can do.

Just to note that I am not from Kerry, and not a Clifford family member. Have never met him; I just have great admiration of how he has performed on the pitch.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122714424#Comment_122714424

And I'm not from Dublin, and I know plenty of lads who put up big scores in minor and club games. Hell, we could name various players who scored more than that on the senior stage and we aren't proclaiming them the greatest of all time.

Your post demonstrates exactly the type of hyperbole that Clifford receives, as if neutrals never went to watch an exciting player in Croke park before. I mean, you have to ignore the entire history of the GAA to actually believe that one to be true.

And why would I be "jealous" of an intercounty player, I've never understood what that is even supposed to mean. Did Clifford steal my shooting boots or something? Do I get better if he was a worse player? Of course not, so its a bit of a silly way to dismiss peoples opinion.

Is Clifford a great player? Of course he is, I'd love to have him on my team. Is he the greatest player ever and has he done anything at all that great players before him didn't already do better? Nope, he simply has not.

FullBack Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122714526#Comment_122714526

The only thing you got right there is that you're not from Dublin:-

- He scored 4-4 in an all-ireland final - intercounty. Against elite competition. I didn't mention anything about club matches or other senior matches, where you will often come across mis-matches.

- I have never heard anyone say to me that they are going to Croke Park, for the sole purposes of seeing one player, and to be present in the event that he might do something special like he did against Tyrone couple of years ago. People of go t matches as a neutral in anticipation of a good match, or there could be a couple of intercounty players involved, or it may be one of the bigger clubs in Ireland. But I am talking about Fossa. If it was Fossa in Croke Park, and someone like say Paul Geaney was playing, how many people would go as a neutral.

- I didn't say anything about you being jealous. Don't flatter yourself by comparing yourself to him. I don't know where you are from, but I am referring to rivalries. Of course, a person from one county begrudges success in a rival county. That is where most of the comments from Dublin personnel is coming from. Nothing wrong with it. It's natural. But might as well point out what it is, rather than writing it off as hatred.

- No player that I have ever seen has performed as consistently great as he has between the age of 19 and 25 (which he currently is). I'd be interested if you could name these great players that have done his equal in those 6 years.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058373111/irish-indo-greatest-players-of-all-time-ranked-in-every-position

You can use this archive.is

https://archive.is/JLvRL

Not many name's really considered from from the historically weaker hurling counties. It does not say much for the game of hurling over a very long period of time.

Dickie10

myself and a friend have been giving out yards about Breheny for years and his "journalism" with GAA he loves putting the boot into some counties and makes darlings of others. anyway he is just a very poor GAA analyst its like hes stuck in 80s and 90s. his tripe is so bad that myself and my friend were messing at the end of the inter county season saying it wont be long til marin breheny has a top 20/50/100 lists in irish indepnedent. we were thinking he must be running out of road soon with them lists, we were waiting for the "top 20 left footed players ever in GAA" or "the top 50 redheaded players EVER in GAA" . Top 20 underrated/overrated players. top 10 what if moment in GAA EVER! absolute nonsense just cover all the GAA thats still going on. maybe the two weeks before christmas and christmas week is ok for that tripe, not when the GAA club season is coming to a climax.

MattressRick

I saw Brehenys book about these players in easons. What in the name of god is the point in publishing a book when you print the list of players, and the reasons why, in the paper?

Btw the hurling team is ridiculous. Can't pick them all based on the teams of the century and millennium. Those teams are redundant now. Another 40 years have passed since 1984 so we should have another Team of.....

I think DJ Carey is a bit overrated too. Was very good don't get me wrong. But Joe Canning was a better hurler and did it in clutch moments too. All round better than Carey.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122714526#Comment_122714526

''we could name various players who scored more than that on the senior stage'' this is exactly what i was talking about. Apparently every player is doing the same things as him now.

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122716702#Comment_122716702

tbh it’s a bit silly to be annoyed that people are challenging the idea that a lad with a third of his career gone is the GOAT. Clifford might well earn that accolade in years to come but so far his performances at senior level don’t justify it. It’s telling that his greatest performances have been at underage.

he may well get there, and best of luck in trying, but at the moment I’d put Canavan, O’Shea and Cluxton on that list ahead of him based on what they contributed to the games they played in. I’d also put Gooch and Fenton who aren’t on the list ahead of him at this stage, though he has many years left to overtake them . If you think Clifford is special go back and look at the Goochs highlight reel!

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122722415#Comment_122722415

Leaving out the GOAT stuff, something btw i don't think is true, where are people getting this he's never done anything at senior level from? What's that actually based on? He's already won 5 All-Stars and two POTY awards and before you say they don't matter what are you basing the others on?

imo Canavan is up there as one of the most overhyped players there's ever been.

FullBack Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122722454#Comment_122722454

Your last comment may put the cat amongst the pigeons, but I agree. Cananvan was a good knacky forward, but nothing overly exceptional. He is more famous for going off in a match, and coming back on to get the team over the line. I don't remember anything else too memorable from him.

megadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122722775#Comment_122722775

Oh Jesus, why was the internet invented?

FullBack Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723887#Comment_122723887

What was the reason for the invention of the Internet?

The internet got its start in the United States in the late 1960s as a military defense system in the Cold War. For years, scientists and researchers used it to communicate and share data with one another.

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122722454#Comment_122722454

I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion but on that one you and cms88 are demonstrably dead wrong. As a score taker he’s possibly the finest I’ve ever seen. In terms of going off and coming on again people forget that was a half fit Canavan with a banjaxed ankle and yet he was still the player to drag Tyrone over the line. I remember Meath having to basically commit GBH to stop him in another match.

I may not have a lot of love for Tyrone, but Canavan was exceptional

megadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122722775#Comment_122722775

Just because you don't remember anything else too memorable doesn't mean he didn't do anything memorable.

Ratings aren't based on your personal memories.

It appears you're one of these people who just became aware of Canavan at the very end of his career and was wondering why people made such a big deal about him coming off and on in Tyrone's first ever All-Ireland win. As already mentioned he was badly injured before that match and if it wasn't an All-Ireland final he definitely would not have played. The whole point of taking him off was to rest the injury firstly but also when bringing him back on the huge roar and sense of optimism generated would hopefully spur the team on to win their first ever All-Ireland. And so it turned out. And Canavan was the top-scorer in that match.

The reason there would be such a huge roar, is because of what he achieved in the 15 years of his senior Tyrone career before that.

He captained Tyrone to their first ever two All-Ireland U21 titles.

He debuted for their seniors at 18 and soon became a 'one-man show' for Tyrone. The best example of this and probably the thing most knowledgeable football people remember him for was his 'one-man show' in the 1995 All-Ireland final v Dublin. They only lost by a single point and of their 12 points total he scored 11. I'm open to correction, but I believe this is the highest individual score any player has ever scored on a losing team in an All-Ireland final.

He was regularly targetted by opposition knowing if they held Canavan they were likely to win, but despite being relatively small (5' 8") and 'heavily' marked he racked up big scores throughout his career. He won 6 All-Stars, despite not playing for a really top side for a most of his career.

One of my favourite memories of him was when he was being marked by an Australian knacker by the name of Akermanis in the Compromise Rules. This guy knew how dangerous Canavan was and proceeded to use the usual Aussie tactics for the better Irish players. He started battering him on and off the ball. Canavan decided enough was enough and tore back into him. They both got sent off, but the look on the Aussie's face after being on the receiving end was worth it.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I really believe it's because you didn't see enough of him in his prime - the 1990's. He is regarded by a huge amount of football people throughout the island as one of, if not the greatest Gaelic footballer ever.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122726274#Comment_122726274

You see this just proves my point. All your saying here David Clifford has been doing, not for the same amount time of course, in recent years. Yet apparently no one can question ''Peter the Great''…

tritium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122728388#Comment_122728388

no, it really doesn’t. Clifford has been the main go to man for a far better set of players and stronger team than Canavan ever was in and yet to an extent has wilted at times, notably their last final against Dublin and last year. By contrast, even when Tyrone lost Canavan tended to be the best player on the park.

Clifford may yet become the GOAT, but right now for me Canavan (along with a few others) is some distance ahead of him.